Hmmmm..

[tallulah]

Just when you think it's safe to get back in the water..

A little update...

Storage is booked. I have paid a deposit and the unit is available from Saturday. I spoke to my A who agreed to help me move my stuff out. Due to circumstances out of my control it required him to make the booking for the truck which I aksed him would he be able to to on Saturday just gone. He said he may be out that day and so I said it would be possible to do it on Sunday morning. Anyway he didn't go out on Saturday but I didn't press the matter of the hire as I thought it doesn't matter as it can be done on Sunday anyway and we'd agreed that. So we spent Saturday just chilling out and watching a movie together. All in all a pleasant day.

Sunday came. It didn't start well for me as I had little sleep due to noisy neighbours (another long story in itself) and I was drained and quite teary because of lack of sleep. Talk got around to moving out as my A offered me ear plugs (which I hate) and I said I could manage for now as it is just another week and I won't be here.

As I said I was exhausted and drained and he offered me a hug. He came to sit by me and hugged me. Then he just started sobbing. I asked him what was the matter and he said, 'I don't think I want you to leave'. I told him that I didn't want to leave either but things could not carry on as they were for me. Long story short he said his heart didn't want me to go but his head didn't know what to do for the best. There were 'I love you's and tears from both of us. I said we didn't have to talk about it now and he went out to do something he had arranged to do.

When he came back he had been to the supermarket and bought a selection of things to cook. He said we are going to have a nice lunch. He seemed calm and happy. He had also bought me a beautiful bunch of tulips. Flowers were something he used to buy me regularly so I know they were not a peace offering (lol).

We spent a lovely day together just being ourselves. We didn't talk about it.

Monday came and went. Again we were relaxed around each other. I went to my meeting and when I returned home he was still up and we talked about some AA/Al-Anon things. This is something that hasn't happened since we broke up: he would usually be in bed before I got back from my meeting and was never interested in talking when I returned.

Since Sunday I have enjoyed the more relaxed atmosphere but I have been acutely aware that, if we are not going to work together to see whether we can or should work on our relationship, I should be working towards moving out. So, aware of this, today I have sent him a text.

It said, 'as you know I have reserved storage and need to book a van.. we didn't do the latter.. so now I need to know.. are we saying <bleep> this stalemate, we love each other and lets try to make this work.. or is me leaving back on?'

Meh.. I hated having to send that. That stubborn part of me with the considerable ability to detach and go cold rails against such genuine communication. But if I didn't I could be stuck in coulda, woulda, shoulda right?

Anyway, his response wasn't immediate but it has arrived. 'We should talk about it tonight'.

Now I am trying very hard to get some serenity and stop the stinkin' thinkin'.

[WomanFriend]

tallulah -

I am glad that you have been able to spend some pleasant days with your A.

I only recently joined SR so I have not read your story yet.

I will let you know that when my XABF and I finally lived in separate places, our relationship and my well-being immediately improved. Our relationship didn't last, but my path to recovery is still going strong. Even when the pleasant days you've recently had, do not forget the reason(s) that prompted you to move in the first place.

If you decide to stay, and his new found communication doesn't stay, how will that make you feel?

It also seems like you are letting him hold the decision to work things out. Sometimes our decisions are contingent on what another person wants or is willing to do, but we have to make sure that our core decisions are coming from ourselves. If he's willing to continue to work, so are you. That makes sense. He may not be able to be honest with himself about whether or not he's able to continue to work, though.

Good luck with everything.

[tallulah]

Hi WomanFriend.. thanks for your reply

One thing I am unshakeable about is that the way we have been for the last year can't continue. That will require effort on my part as well as his.

I'm also unshakeable in my own recovery. I know that I need to keep going back to Al-Anon. I know that I need to stop the one foot in the past, one foot in the future and peeing on my present that has been implicit in my rock bottom. I can't go back to the way it was. (I suppose at this point I should mention that the A in my life is in recovery, in a programme and has not had a drink for over two years).

You have hit the nail on the head about letting him hold the decision. That is how I am feeling right now. Have I handed over my 'power'? My intention is to avoid ignoring what is happening (we've done enough of that) and address it: hence me thinking we are in some kind of limbo and one of us has to say 'what is going on here'.. 'are we saying we are willing to work it out'. If we're not working it out (whatever that entails) then I am leaving. I suppose I'm just trying to find out which one it is.

The stinkin' thinkin' is trying to work out why he has sent such an ambiguous text... lol

[SleepyCherie]

Is he normally a texter? Maybe he's like you and has a distaste for in depth conversation that isn't face to face?

Do you think he'll continue on the good path if you stay? Do you think being apart would grow his appreciation for what alcohol and his interactions with it has taken from his life?

If you want things to work out in the long run, it may be proactive to keep your distance. Set a time frame and if his path is consistent for that amount of time, you can revisit living together. Based on your post of his thoughts, he doesn't sound sure at all. Protect yourself first, if love is there it won't go away because you move across town

[WomanFriend]

tallulah -

You certainly sound like you are focused on your recovery. You are also allowing yourself to be human, which inevitably means making mistakes.

It sounds like you are in a place that I was in. "The stinkin' thinkin' is trying to work out why he has sent such an ambiguous text..." I was to the point where I would analyze my XABF's every syllable. It felt like he was holding my happiness in his hands.

In retrospect, that type of behavior was a symptom of an unhealthy relationship.

For me, giving the relationship another chance (with new parameters) was necessary for me to move on. It did not work out, but I wasn't left wondering "what if."

You're going to do what you feel is right, and I know that however it turns out, it will all work out for you.

[tallulah]

Originally Posted by SleepyCherie

Is he normally a texter? Maybe he's like you and has a distaste for in depth conversation that isn't face to face?

Do you think he'll continue on the good path if you stay? Do you think being apart would grow his appreciation for what alcohol and his interactions with it has taken from his life?

If you want things to work out in the long run, it may be proactive to keep your distance. Set a time frame and if his path is consistent for that amount of time, you can revisit living together. Based on your post of his thoughts, he doesn't sound sure at all. Protect yourself first, if love is there it won't go away because you move across town

Thanks for your reply Cherie

Yeah he can be. Well we used to text each other during the day. Not at all until recently. I suppose he doesn't want to respond about this via text and I can't blame him. It's a bit of a serious subject and he may need time to gather his thoughts. My reply to his text was 'Ok'. Now the old me, craving an answer, would probably try and get one out of him. But I've let go and accepted that while I'd probably like an answer right now so I can leap into action and 'do' something, I'm not going to get it.

The answer to whether he will continue along (or even start out) on a good path is 'I don't know'. Will I? 'Yes'. His recovery isn't down to me. Mine isn't down to him. If we continue in a relationship it's going to take time, working together and on ourselves, some courage and some hope. Can we do that? If you had asked me that question before I would have said 'No'. Now, I realise that the answer is 'I don't know'.

My question to him in that text from the old me would have been steeped in hopes and wishes that he said stay and lets works this out. The progressing me sent that text to move forward.. with or without him. So I suppose I am protecting myself. (?)

[Freedom1990]

My two cents? You've handed the power back over to him.

You're perfectly entitled to make that decision.

Personally, I value my freedom and will never hand it over to an alcoholic, whether one in recovery or not, again.

[tallulah]

Originally Posted by WomanFriend

tallulah -

You certainly sound like you are focused on your recovery. You are also allowing yourself to be human, which inevitably means making mistakes.

It sounds like you are in a place that I was in. "The stinkin' thinkin' is trying to work out why he has sent such an ambiguous text..." I was to the point where I would analyze my XABF's every syllable. It felt like he was holding my happiness in his hands.

In retrospect, that type of behavior was a symptom of an unhealthy relationship.

For me, giving the relationship another chance (with new parameters) was necessary for me to move on. It did not work out, but I wasn't left wondering "what if."

You're going to do what you feel is right, and I know that however it turns out, it will all work out for you.

It's funny but I can recognise the stinkin' thinkin' now. It's there but not taking over. No texting back trying to manipulate some clarification. No worrying what he is going to say when he comes back. It is what it is and it will be what it will be.

That's the situation I am in. The 'what if'. I know that it takes two people to make or break a relationship. If he says you should carry on with your plans to leave then that is what I shall do. He came to me and said what he was thinking and I told him what I was thinking. The protective part of me didn't want to say that I love him and 'don't want to split but we can't carry on like this'. But there had to be honest communication from both of us.

If it ends tonight then I know I don't have 'what if' hanging over me. If it doesn't then we face the 'what next'. But at least we're moving forward.

[tallulah]

Originally Posted by Freedom1990

My two cents? You've handed the power back over to him.

You're perfectly entitled to make that decision.

Personally, I value my freedom and will never hand it over to an alcoholic, whether one in recovery or not, again.

NP Freedom.. All opinions are good

That's my worry. I certainly don't feel like I've handed over my power. But I am concerned that even subconsciously that is how he could take it.

To me it was a question arising out of the fact that we have been in an atmosphere of equilibrium these past couple of days but neither of us is saying what is happening. From a purely selfish view I have been thinking yeah it would be nice to resolve to try and work on our relationship but if that's not what we are saying then hell I need to get my self back on track to move out this weekend. I've put the question off for a couple of days and couldn't put it off any longer.

[MissFixit]

T,

I hope you have a peaceful solution.

I think the power transfer comes when we ask someone else to make a decision for our future. If he was not and A, then there wouldn't be as big a risk. As he is an A, he isn't thinking rationally and logically. Just my opinion.

[tallulah]

Originally Posted by MissFixit

T,

I hope you have a peaceful solution.

I think the power transfer comes when we ask someone else to make a decision for our future. If he was not and A, then there wouldn't be as big a risk. As he is an A, he isn't thinking rationally and logically. Just my opinion.

Thank you MissFixit

I know what you mean. I have put this off for two days. I was going to just carry on as if things hadn't thawed and say to him look I need to get this truck sorted out if I am to make my moving deadline on Saturday. But then I went to my Al-Anon meeting and spoke to someone afterwards.

They said, 'why don't you just say what you mean'. So I did. That being I am open to seeing if we can work this out, but that will take two and if you are not up for this then I need to get my truck. And, yeah, I'm now thinking oh hell is what I sent sending out a message I don't mean.

You are right. He's an A. An A in recovery and a programme but still an A.

I suppose all will be revealed.

[ToughChoices]

Originally Posted by tallulah

I certainly don't feel like I've handed over my power.

You're giving him final say in whether or not you move out, whereas, before, you had looked at the situation honestly and assessed that you did not want to stay with him as he was.

What has changed in the past few days?

Have the new behaviors (listening, communicating, hugging) been going on long enough to convince you that your relationship's history (pulling you close then pushing you away) will not be repeated? What originally made you decide that leaving was in your best interest? Maybe go back and read your original posts here - see what brought you to a place where you felt it necessary to say, "I'm gone."
If those motivating factors are truly no longer an issue, or have become issues you feel that you can handle, then you are making an informed decision to stay in the relationship.

If that is your decision, then that's fine. It is fine for you to say: "I've decided that I want to stay in this relationship. I know what it entails. I know the hardships we will face. I know the problems that we tend to encounter. I'm ok with that. I don't want to move out. I want to stay."
This does not give your power away. This states your preference. It says what you want.

The "power-giving" comes into play when you ask him, "Should I move out?" and what you mean is, "I don't want to move. Will you change so that we can stay together and I can be happy?"


Only you know what you mean and what you want.

-TC

[TakingCharge999]

I agree with MissFixIt and Freedom.
Keep focus on how you picture yourself.

I believe that, living somewhere else,

1 your path to recovery will keep strong
2 you will rest from the noisy neighbors
3 you will feel more independent
4 you will reflect on WHO you allow to enter your life
5 it will be symbolic regarding the new life you are preparing for yourself

Moving out does not mean having to END IT ALL, but I believe that for your own sanity, its the best way to go.

If he does not want you to leave, well, IMHO he should have treated you better in the first place.

Good luck :>

[MissFixit]

One thing that comes to mind is that I used to do what you are doing now. Asking him to make the decision I wanted. I always phrased things so he was making the choice. Whenever I "told" him how I felt, he would agree to do/say/act however, but then rarely follow through as promised. By asking him to choose, I was essentially allowing him to be in charge of our relationship.

He was/is an active A. In recovery for a short time, but then wasn't and I didn't realize that. I was asking a person who had difficulty completing basic tasks to decide our future. He was not rational or responsible and I allowed him to dictate my life...in a way.

Not smart on my part, but I NEVER realized that was what I was doing until now. It takes distance from the A and making your own life choices on a regular basis to fully understand what I/we did.

[anvilhead]

keep in mind, you guys "could" work on things while still maintaining different addresses. note that it wasn't until your efforts INDICATED your intent that suddenly he's a tulip carrying mushball. his motives may indeed be PURE, but oh so often in relationships that have become toxic over time, when one person begins to take positive HEALTHY steps, which invariable lead away from the not-so-healthy-other-guy, that individual will ramp up what is known as CHANGE BACK behavior....do everything in their power to get you back in your "spot" so that things can go back to the way they were, in that dreadfully familiar UNcomfortABLE zone....

at best when a relationship is fractured and broken, it takes YEARS to heal, if ever. just saying "we are gonna work on things" isn't a plan, does not constitute change in any meaningful palpable sense. it sure sounds good tho....

[tallulah]

I've read all of your replies.. Thank you for them.. :ghug

You guys have given me alot to think about.. I'm going to get a bath and a bit of reflection in before he gets back.

I will listen to what he has to say. I will hear it and then process it. But I just want to let you know. I haven't lost sight of me, I promise. Nor will I. There is nothing that will stop me putting one step in front of the other. Not even him.

[TakingCharge999]

YEAHH!!

[tallulah]

Well.. he says we'll talk tonight and yet, once again, I'm bringing the subject up..

Long story short.

I said ok what is it to be are we deciding to see if we can work on this or are we in the same place we were on Sunday morning before you said you didn't want me to go. He said I don't know and I said well, I can't and won't stay in limbo. He said, can I sleep on it and I said, you've had 4 weeks to know whether this is worth your courage and effort.

He said, he didn't know. I said, don't be confused here, I'm not handing over the decisions regarding my happiness to you and I'm not able to wait around for you to make up your mind. He looked pensive. Follow me telling him that it is impossible to have any kind of meaningful communication with a brick wall; that if he knew in his heart and soul that he didn't want us to be 2 derelict ships passing in the night he would be able to say so and not have to keep 'sleeping on it'; getting the telephone number of the truck hire company, writing it down, handing it to him and telling him to call them tomorrow first thing and if because of this he as missed my slot for this Saturday to ensure that I have one booked for the following Saturday at the very latest.

Cue him staring at the piece of paper looking like he was about to burst into tears. I've told him I'm tired and I want to go to bed and he has sloped off to bed.

I can't tell you how angry I am. What a ******* waste of my time that man is. Sleep on it my ****.

Thanks.. feel better now.

[tallulah]

I've revisited this thread in the cold light of day and all I can say is un-beee-lievable.

Sidetracked is how I feel right now. I can honestly say that what I have said to him comes from the heart. It was a declaration that I am on a path and he's either on it with me or not. Someone once said to me 'if it's not part of the solution, it's a part of the problem'. Never truer in this instance.

So he has the number to call. If he doesn't call it then I will alternate my plans to exclude any need for involvement from him. It will cost more but what price my happiness.

Thank you all for listening and your words of experience and advice. :ghug

[tallulah]

Well.. soon as I posted that a text came through. He has called and booked the van for this Saturday. I replied with 'ok'

So it looks like it (me leaving) is back on. I'm pee'd off I've wasted 3 days but one thing I can say is there will be no 'what ifs'... not for me anyway.

Now he's texted 'Not pleasant'. Am I supposed to weep and wail now.

[Glenna9802]

Oh sweetie...it hurt me to read these posts and see how your emotions have been so tangled up. I wish I had something really philosophical to say to fix everything, but you're in my thoughts and prayers. You are too amazing for some other wishy-washy person to throw you a bone and then yank it away and back and forth. I keep saying that I'm dating myself right now and like it better (lol). Stay strong with your support and with HP and you will be fine and always on the right path.

[naive]

hi tallulah-

just offering feedback here. you seem very emotional. it's understandable, but just be careful what you say or decide whilst emotional. it will pass. i find when i am emotional, silence is always the right choice for me. whatever needs to be said can be said after it passes, which it always does. also, for me, in going through all these changes, i have made a decision to not drink at all, as i need all of my wits and self-control right now.

it would probably be easier for you if you can move without his involvement. i think it will be very difficult for the two of you, together, to move your gear. i understand it's probably a financial decision but you might to have a plan for how your going to deal with it. maybe a third party there with you?

it is notable that his mood changed when you started to take some action.

[tallulah]

Originally Posted by Glenna9802

Oh sweetie...it hurt me to read these posts and see how your emotions have been so tangled up. I wish I had something really philosophical to say to fix everything, but you're in my thoughts and prayers. You are too amazing for some other wishy-washy person to throw you a bone and then yank it away and back and forth. I keep saying that I'm dating myself right now and like it better (lol). Stay strong with your support and with HP and you will be fine and always on the right path.

Hi twinnie..

Reading back it hurt and disappointed me too. And kind of made me angry.. with myself more than him. But anger in this situation only hurts me.

Thank you for your thoughts and prayers. And for your story. It is inspirational.

You are quite right. I am worth more than wishy-washy and deserve some commitment or action. Words are cheap: it is not what people say but what they do we remember and that is what I am focussing on now.

xxx

[Glenna9802]

Don't be mad at yourself. You stuck to your guns in an emotional situation and didn't fold. I like naive's idea of spending a little extra (if you can) and not having him involved in the move at all. I just worry that if he is, there's going to be more attempts at manipulation.

Break-ups really hurt, be gentle with yourself. Wish I could bring you some Haagen-Dazs

[tallulah]

Originally Posted by naive

hi tallulah-

just offering feedback here. you seem very emotional. it's understandable, but just be careful what you say or decide whilst emotional. it will pass. i find when i am emotional, silence is always the right choice for me. whatever needs to be said can be said after it passes, which it always does. also, for me, in going through all these changes, i have made a decision to not drink at all, as i need all of my wits and self-control right now.

it would probably be easier for you if you can move without his involvement. i think it will be very difficult for the two of you, together, to move your gear. i understand it's probably a financial decision but you might to have a plan for how your going to deal with it. maybe a third party there with you?

it is notable that his mood changed when you started to take some action.

Thank you naive. :ghug

Yeah I guess I am emotional. Understandable I suppose. I'm trying not to use that feeling as some internal bat to beat myself with and use it as impetus to move forward.

Moving day will be hard for both of us. I can't control how he feels. But I can keep myself focussed and putting one foot in front of the other. Unfortunately, it will be just both of us moving my stuff but apart from the obvious emotional aspects of it I am going to see it as a move onwards and upwards. Any time I feel sad I'm going to remember this too shall pass and approach it as a positive rather than a negative.

Yes it is notable how he lurches from one thing to another. But fool me once shame on him, fool me twice shame on me. His emotions are his to own. He has a voice with which he can speak but he chooses not to. There is nothing I can do about that. His response of 'not pleasant' is absolutely right. It isn't a pleasant situation. But my response to that was 'Why? It is what it is and it is what you want. Just remember that and I'm sure you will feel fine about it'. I am not going to get into mind games or reiterate what I have already said. He knows what we need to do to see if our relationship could work. I have done my 'what if' and articulated it. The ownership of his response is entirely his.