Do verbally abusive AH's ever "fix" themselves?

[inahaze]

Is there a site somewhere that has percentages/statistics for this type of information?

Mine has never changed, he's taken short breaks from his horrid behavior, but it always, always, always comes back to a different degree.

I just didn't know if there was any sites that provided data for abusers.

[Ago]

Try asking down in the "alcoholic 12 step forum"

A) you will get an answer

B) The ensuing argument that will occur will provide you with some amusement and provide you with some further information not found in the stats.

Personally, for me, I see it daily because I attend AA nearly daily, but I don't know what the "hard numbers" are, but if I want to see criminals, I go to a jail, if I want to see drunk people, I go to a bar, but if I want to see "recovering alcoholics" I go to AA

[denny57]

An excellent book is "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft.

There are sites out there; PM if you'd like a list.

Take care!

p.s. my personal response to your thread question would be "no."

[Bernadette]

The only leopards I know who changed their spots worked really really hard at it and the change took time but was obvious and focused.

Pick something you don;t like about yourself and see how hard it is to change!! Start your research right where it counts!!

If the stats were in his favor - what difference does that make to you, now, on this day??? No batch of statistics can tell you that his abusive behavior will end on this day or in this way or with this percentage of relapse....Trust your gut and take care of yourself!!
Peace-
B.

[tommyk]

Mine has never changed, he's taken short breaks from his horrid behavior, but it always, always, always comes back to a different degree.

Some do and some don't, but that there's only ONE (1) that matters to you.

So what is 99% of the others do? Where does that still leave YOU...?

Best wishes in facing hard cold reality, keep coming back.

[anvilhead]

what if the "statistics" said yes, 55% of abusers CAN reform.....how does that in any way shape or form change the behavior YOU choose to accept from this ONE abuser? what do his ACTIONS say to you?

we teach people how to treat us.......is they abuse and we let them, we stay rather than remove ourselves to a safe distance from someone who disrespects our person, demeans and belittles us, treats us like so much dirt, WE give them permission to continue.......

[miss communicat]

being a member of AA myself, I do see people's behaviour change that I would never have imagined possible. So, my answer is that anything is possible.

but, that doesn't help you now.

what might help you now is to question why you would ever accept abusive talk, and what your options are for you from now on.

for me, i stop a person immediately from mean, abusive talk in several ways:

1. I look the person right in the eyes. This tells the person we are equals. Sometimes this is enough to stop them from bullying.

2. I do not argue or raise my own voice. I also avoid a loud conversation in a small space, like a hallway or the bathroom. This de-intensifies the atmosphere.

3. I walk away, drive away, go away.

4. I hang up the phone.

5. I do not return emails that are aggressive.

These are merely techniques/strategies to divert an incoming assault. It always brings back the first question: why am I close to this person? What am I doing in this relationship? Am I growing?

[isitme]

A lot of these responses remind me of when I used to ask questions about normalcy. In fact I was just thinking about that the other day. I was thinking Why do I put up with this, I don't deserve this.. I'm sinking into it. I've become angry, loud and semi abusive myself because of dealing with this treatment and not doing anything for myself. (Not trying to make excusses or put blame) Anyway.. I thought back to some of my posts and people telling me, does is matter what everyone else does if it's not ok to you? And that of course turned my thinking totally around. So at the risk of totally repeating everything that's already been said. It wouldn't matter if 99% of abusers could be helped, or if 99% of everybody was being abused and just dealt with it. If the treatment is no ok to you, that's all that matters. Your the only one who can get out of it and your the only one who can decide when you've had enough. What everyone else thinks is ok or not ok doesn't really matter... kwim?

[Freedom1990]

I've also come to find that there are cases where alcohol gets too much credit.

There are those who are a-holes long before the alcohol ever came along, and the alcohol just enhanced the worst of the worst.

[Ago]

Truthfully once I read this, this was all the "data" I needed, it was like reading a "blueprint" of her behavior, page after page....it was like someone had been following us around.

the whole article is worth reading, here are some highlights, but it says repeatedly, run fast and run far, because it takes like ten years of "deep work" to start getting results and they are at their most dangerous in their first year of therapy, which, quite frankly was my experience.

Later on in the article, it tells how an "abuser" "behaves" "once their covers are pulled" and that was where it really started to get difficult for me, because the moment I put my foot down, broke up with her, said "No more" and showed her this article, she started going to "my meetings" (an hour's drive from her house), trying to make friends with "my friends" and trying to tell anyone who would listen that I was "the Abuser" thankfully these folks had all known me for anywhere from 17 to 30 years, some of them were even my old ex girlfriends, their love and support got me through a very trying time, I mean that's when she got really nasty is after I left her, and truthfully she was "nothing nice" when we were together.

Pretty scary stalkerish stuff actually and very very confusing and scary to live through, it's like that movie "Fatal Attraction" but toss in questioning your own reality and some "Stockholm Syndrome".

So for me, I didn't even begin to question "how many could recover" or even
"could she recover" but "How can I get away from her safely and stay away" and recover from this life altering event, because it was, absolutely the scariest, strangest, most awful thing that has ever happened to me, and if you know anything about my history, that's saying quite a bit.

Physical & Emotional Abuse Forum: Worth Reading and re-posting... - DailyStrength

If you find that you are having to explain the basics of respect and courtesy to a partner - if you are finding that he just DOESN'T SEEM TO GET IT, when you try to explain why his behavior or actions were disrespectful - run far and run fast. People who are capable of maintaining and contributing to a loving, supportive, healthy relationship, DON'T need to constantly have the concepts of respect, compassion, and consideration explained to them.

If you are in a relationship where you have a sick sense that SOMETHING is wrong, but somehow it's always YOUR fault, and you find yourself always tring to "fix" things, this article may be for you.

Emotional abusers are very insidious - some of them are much harder to spot than others, because they mingle their abuse in between acts of generosity, and often employ emotionally manipulative tactics, and passive-aggressive behavior. Not all emotional abusers overtly belittle and verbally harangue their partners - some are much more perfidious and as such, their partners may not realize that the source of their distress and an unease over the relationship has been coming from abuse for quite some time. The longer a woman remains under the grip of an emotional abuser, the more she will start to question herself, her actions and her beliefs. It is the abuser's goal to make her believe that she deserves his cruelty and that only through her actions can she make it stop. It is his intent to get her to feel that she is the cause of any relationship problems, and that his (abusive) behavior is simply a response to her, and therefore acceptable. It is true, that only through her actions can she make it stop - she must have the courage to leave the relationship and avoid further contact with the abuser.

Abusers, physical or emotional, are abusive because of their own self-hate and internal issues - not because of anything their partner did. No amount of work or attempting to please will stop an abuser from abusing. They have to be willing to recognize and actually work on their own issues before they can stop inflicting cruelty on the people who love them. In many cases, they don't even love their partners, because they can't even love themselves, and don't feel that they deserve love, even though they crave it. Abusers may genuinely feel bad that they committed another act of abuse, not because they have any real compassion for the person they hurt, but because they get angry at themselves for "screwing up" again. This drives them further into self-loathing, and further into a cycle of abusive behavior.

It is common for men who are "called" on their abusive behavior to blame the woman, and claim SHE was the abuser. He may even point to his abusive childhood as proof that he is just an innocent victim. The truth of the matter is that abusers generally DO have a history of abuse stemming from their childhood, with emotionally abusive and/or physically abusive parents. However, it is important to note that though women can become abusers, MOST OFTEN (because of the way we are socialized and the power setups in society), if there has been no *successful* theraputic intervention, MEN from abusive families become "ABUSERS", and WOMEN who grew up in abusive families become "Abuse VICTIMS".

Like the alcoholic, an abuser must admit his behavior to himself and others, and seek help. Unfortunately, not all therapy works, and not all people who go into therapy are ready or willing to do the personal work necessary to get better and eliminate their destructive patterns. As such, abusers are not safe people - even after they enter therapy. It can take years of therapy to unravel and undo the damage and self-hate that has driven someone to abuse. During that time, the abuser may actually get worse before his behavior improves, if it changes at all. It is quite common for deeply disturbed people who enter therapy to initially use the therapy to project their problems on everyone else and point out the character flaws of those around them, rather than face their own internal demons. Until they can be honest with themselves and the therapist, the therapy will accomplish nothing. For a person who has spent a lifetime of lying and hating themselves, honesty does not come easily.

More disturbingly, some abusers can and DO go into therapy as a ploy - to make it LOOK like they are actually working on their own behavior, and accepting responsibility for their actions, when, in fact, the real motive is to arm themselves with distortions of the therapist's words and tools, in an effort to heighten and increase the psychological warfare. The bottom line, is that you can't trust an abuser, the same way you can't trust the married man who is having an affair and keeps promising to leave his wife.

The more subtle forms of emotional abuse can be the hardest to escape from, because the gaps between the loving, caring behavior and the emotional cruelty can span several weeks or months. However, someone who is nice and caring, and helpful for 2 or 3 months at a time, but then deliberately does or says something very emotionally devastating and cruel to a partner is no better than someone who does the same nice things but then PUNCHES his partner once every few months. The pain, the insecurity, the uncertainty, and the heartache are the same. The bruises and the welts are on the inside instead of the outside, and they take far longer to heal. While someone may be emotionally blindsided by major episodes of emotional cruelty, and may even recognize it as abuse, abused partners often "overlook" the subtle everyday criticisms, "chain yanking", and emotional blackmail that are woven into the fabric of their relationship, accepting (or denying) it as just part of a "relationship". Unfortunately, it's part of a very UNHEALTHY relationship.

It can leave the woman wondering if the pain is worth the good times, and even wondering if this is as good as it gets? What if there isn't anything better? When he distorts the past and blames you for the relationship problems, you may even feel like you are going crazy, and he will certainly do everything he can to imply that you ARE. The truth is, there IS something better. You don't have to put up with a relationship where you are treated poorly, with disrespect, or emotional cruelty, no matter how infrequent those acts are. And of course, when you do get upset, the abuser will infer that you are overreacting, or "too sensitive", so it adds to the confusion and hurt that you may feel.

[bookwyrm]

scary stuff...

[prodigal]

Excellent read, Ago. Yes, I have been informed I'm a beeeyyyootttccchhhh of the nth magnitude, that I need "anger management" and that I "rant." Mind you, my anger rears its ugly head about once or twice a year.

No matter. The abuser uses it like a weapon to wield against me. I've learned that what someone else thinks of me is none of my business - including AH's so-called "opinions."

[FormerDoormat]

Like Miss C says, anything is possible. But based on what I've seen on this forum, I'd say it's not likely that the end of his drinking days will also signal the end of his verbal abuse.

My ex alcoholic boyfriend wasn't verbally abusive. That leads me to believe that abuse and drinking are separate problems.

[loner1968]

I just read that whole thing...it made me cry...

[Ago]

Originally Posted by loner1968

I just read that whole thing...it made me cry...

me too loner...me too

[inahaze]

Mine, I really don't think mine will ever change.

The only time he's considered our marriage good is when he drank whenever he wanted, I never questioned expenditures or behaviors and our physical intimacy were to his liking.

Seems pretty selfish when I look at it in that respect. I've spent almost 13 years wondering about our marriage, our relationship, his drinking, yelling, cussing and just general bad behavior. He's made me feel guilty for working, guilty for working full-time because he had time planned for "us". I've heard snide remarks inbetween full, angry outbursts...Last week at my daughter's birthday party(yes he was drinking and had a drinking buddy bring over his case of beer)he made two comments regarding my lack of intelligence. They slid off his tongue like it was no biggie, he never missed a beat in his conversation and it was just enough for me to notice.

He drank a lot for the past 3 weeks and the past week he's decided he can't drink right now because it's causing a lot of heartburn...yeah, probably so. Yet I'm the one he referred to as stupid.

I really question my own motives for staying. He's not even coming to my family's christmas because he doesn't want to deal with them.

I've left before, but never gave it any in depth thought, it was always based on I have to get out now due to a blow up or drinking binge. This time, I don't know it's different. I've been analyzing and just really putting a lot of thought into it.

It really doesn't seem to be worth staying. The issues that bother me, he sees as trivial(mainly his drinking). Bad behavior is generally always tied into drinking. It's not worth it as he views drinking as normal. He went to say that we have very different views as to what to much drinking was equal too. Personally I consider a 6 pack to much, or just the fact he has to drink whatever is in the house or be the loudest and life of the party. He views as normal. I think regular drinking to get the "buzz on" is wrong, to him it's not.

I just don't see it as worth salvaging when in his eyes there's no problem.

It's me that can't accept him as he is.
That can't let go of the past.
That thinks drinking alone with the kids is wrong.
Again I can't let go of the past.
That I have brought up the girlfriend I knew about.(we were split up & so that doesn't count)

[FormerDoormat]

InaHaze, what would you do if you weren't afraid?

[inahaze]

Not being afraid, I was there for a short time frame. It felt awesome.

During that time, I started working more which is something I'd been wanting to do. I enrolled in school, again something I wanted to do. I never worried about having HIS clothes ready or knowing where HIS stuff was. I didn't care about having certain things around the house. The dogs were relaxed, I WAS RELAXED. Coming home was actually relaxing. I didn't have to hope that he was falling asleep in his chair instead of in bed, he was someone else's responsibility.

I felt like I could breathe again.

[YaySartre]

inahaze, can't say I have statistics for you, but in my experience, a lot of people have some sort of co-existing issue or condition. For me, there are issues I have yet to identify, but they're forming and will germinate, but there are the issues I can identify, like generalized fear, anger and thinking obsessively and in an addictive manner.

That stuff can cheer on the drinking, and it can be a slippery slope. Enough drinking-thinking, and you might just stay in that mode.

You probably feel very similarly to my ex, and that makes me feel a lot of humility. He lived through gnarly stuff with me, and probably saved both of our lives by removing himself from the situation.

Some people can change their behavior. A lot of us here are trying to, and a lot of us will succeed! Completely! I wish us all the best.

He has to want to change, though, don't forget that. We're all here because we want to be better at living, giving and receiving.

[Bernadette]

I WAS RELAXED.
I felt like I could breathe again.

That is worth whatever it takes! Stress has a direct effect on your health and the length of your life....

inahaze I think you have all the stats you need - you have your own REAL experience of life with this person. Make your plans based on your own knowledge.

(((hugs)))
B.

[suzieq1972]

I agree with Bernadette. Being able to relax and breathe is definitely worth whatever it takes. That's been the best part of not having XAH here anymore. I can know that my house will be calm and quiet unless I choose otherwise.



Sue

[TakingCharge999]

Wow what a good article, thank you!
I was sad missing the nice ex I knew and now I am angry remembering all the times he was cruel and then "couldnt remember because he was drunk"
He was not even original in his excuses
Im glad I left :>

[Barbara52]

My xAH never verbally abused me, drunk or sober. He frequently verbally abused his daughters, drunk or sober. I think the alcohol exacerbated the abuse but xAH had anger issues or whatever issues that led to the abuse. THe many time I pointed out that what he said to his daughters was abuse, he totally dismissed it. His daughters eventually just stopped being around him except when they wanted something from him.

[DesertEyes]

You guys want I sticky this thread?

Mike

[FormerDoormat]

Yes, Mike, I think that would be a good thing.