update and how to handle this?

[hopeangel]

hi all!!! my house has been up for sale since last spring and has not sold yet. i have been waiting waiting waiting, still living with AH. i have done pretty good at detaching the last year, but for some reason this time of year seems to bring a relapse for me. i think it is the winter and holidays, and such.

AH has been progressing in his disease. he has went to drinking hard alcohol after always being a beer drinker. he was literally falling down drunk the other night and got in his truck ran into the fence outside our house when he came back. he sleeps on a plastic lounge chair in the basement because he urinates himself. passes out down there. he has not been working. has been depressed, angry, and raging. he threatened suicide the other day stating he couldn't take it anymore. he came into the bedroom the other night switched on the light in the middle of the night. i asked him to please get out and he said "do you want me to hold a shotgun to your head?" he said this twice. i believe he was in a blackout.

the next moring i told him something serious happened told him what he said and he said he was only kidding and that he doesn't even own a shotgun. i have heard him saying how he wants one. i asked why? and he said for hunting. he has never been interested in hunting ever.

in good conscious i could not let this go on any longer so i called a father figure of his that i had talked to before. the man that took him in when his parents kicked him out. i told him everything from the previous physical abuse forward. he stated he would talk to him. AH knows i called him. he took it well and was calm about it. i expected him to be angry, i wonder if this will come out later?

keeping this a secret has not helped and i can no longer do that. really, i have nothing to lose at this point if he gets mad at me i don't care. i just want him to get help. i'm afraid for his safety and mine. i am also considering talking to his best friend about it. these are the only people that i know might help him.

my counselor had me call the rehab center where AH went to outpatient treatment and she wants me to call an attorney to find out what the legal ramifications will be if he does something to himself, someone else, or me. the rehad center really didn't tell me anything i really didn't already know expect get him when he is sober and try to convince him to go to treatment.

AH has seemed to calm down since then, has not drank since tuesday. we have talked about working on things. i've been supportive. i've explained to him how scared i am.

there is something i can't figure how to get around. we have not had sex for a year and he uses this as a power struggle. it is always, i'll do this if you have sex with me. i'll stop drinking or won't drink if you have sex with me.

i've told him that i need to see real change. that it will not happen over night. that i don't trust him and it takes time to develope that. i told him that his drinking or not drinking is not contingent on whether i have sex with him or not and that sex is not the cure for alcoholism (my counselor gave me that one). he uses this to turn it on me very effectively i must say and i don't know how to get out of it?

this is no way to live. now, i'm afraid to leave the house because of what he might do to himself, and also, if he is not working and can't pay the mortgage then i will have rent and a house payment, don't think i can make both.

any advice, support, prayers? swift kick in the butt? thanks.

[ToughChoices]

Ugh. That is a very sad and scary story.

I'm sorry that your house isn't selling - it sounds like it would do you a world of good to get out of that living environment!

I think your physical and emotional well-being ought be a priority.

Let's get creative.
Can you put the house up for rent, as well as for sale?
If you can find someone to pay rent (cover the mortgage) could you afford to rent a place of your own? Get a restraining order - let him find a place of his own?

He's threatening to kill you.
It really is as simple as that - drunk or not, blackout or not.
If he actually gets a shotgun and holds it to your head, will it matter if he is drunk or not?

Take care of yourself. Your situation is dangerous.
-TC

[Bernadette]

I agree- with TC!
I am always amazed how many people I know who will be in a panic thinking their A is going to commit suicide because they let something slip about killing themselves in conversation - and yet the same person will not take a threat against their own life as seriously! RESCUE YOU hopeangel!!! You're the only one you can save in this situation.

My heart goes out to you- it sounds plum miserable at your house...do you have friends you can lean on, AlAnon??

Peace- & Courage--
B.

[mle-sober]

Hopeangel,

I'm worried for your physical safety. I don't think you should be living in the same house with this man. He shouldn't be able to even open the door and step foot into your home. To me, there is a very real danger that he might hurt you. Drunk or not. Blackout or not. As ToughChoices said.

I wish I had some helpful tips or suggestions or ideas... I don't feel I have much to offer to you. Except support for your instinct that you need to get help and find protection from him. And I'll pray for you and your safety.

- mle

[LaTeeDa]

I'm going to be blunt here. Your whole plan is based on getting him to change. That's not a plan. He will either change or not, regardless of how many people you talk to about him, how many people you ask to talk to him, how many times you talk to him.

I had to learn to take action in my own best interests. I had to learn to accept the way things were. I had to assume that he was going to be the way he was going to be. Then what? If he never changes, and in fact keeps getting worse, what are YOU going to do for YOU?

I second the suggestion about looking into a restraining order. If you can get him out of the house, you will not have to worry about rent. He will do what he will do, under the same roof or not. You do not have the power to save him from himself. You do have the power to save yourself. I hope you realize it before it's too late.

L

[embraced2000]

hi hope!!! great to see you again.

hope, this is a very serious matter. you have seen the progression, you know that just about anything is possible.

if he said what he did, believe me, he has been thinking it.

honey, i'm wanting so badly to say....kick his azz out in the street.....but we're not supposed to say things like that.

at this point nothing matters except your safety.

lots of hugs to you
jeri

[hopeangel]

i'm frustrated with myself and my own inablility to get out of this place.

it really is horrible and it amazes me how my rational brain says "this is NOT good" and your always told when 1) someone drinks and drives -call the police 2) when someone threatens suicide - call the police 3) when someone threatens your life - call the police. i did tell him when he was just standing there in the room that if he did not stop and leave the room i would call the police - he left, but the ONLY time i've actually had the courage to call the police was when he was being abusive to my cat - it amazes me that i can take what he dishes out to me, but when he harms something else my mother bear instinct kicks in.

the biggest reason i do not call the police is because i do not want to upset my mother. i don't want her to worry.

i have a best friend that i have confided in, but she is pregnant and getting ready to have a baby, so she is not always there for me and i don't like to burden her either.

i feel like i have done a lot of work, but just can't get past this one road block. i still feel the need to save him and have a lot of guilt thinking that i abandoned him the last year and that's why it has got this bad and when he is sober like the last couple days, i still think okay maybe this will be okay.

i do know the weekend is coming. the counselor also mentioned how i have to be prepared and have an exit plan in case i have to leave quickly and i have to be prepared for what i might face there...such as coming home and finding him dead, or him doing something in the middle of the night...very scary, but...

he has been sober and rational the last couple days and i can begin to rationalize his behavior and tell myself it is not that bad and he seems like he will work to make it better, and maybe if i would be intimate with him everything would be better........ grrr....

your right i just need to be able to get out of the house and i think it would do me a world of good. i just still haven't been willing or found the strength in myself to leave. i still can't see paying rent and mortgage and possibily ending up in debt. crazy i know, and i have to be honest that i think part of me is still holding on to him and the house as a security net and stricktly out of fear of the unknown... some security net, huh? just not at the point that i can see uprooting myself or leaving him there with nothing. seems soo cold.

like i said, winter/holidays always seem to bring relapse for ME.

[queenteree]

(((Hope))) I've been wondering how you've been. Now I know. Listen, I cannot tell you what to do, I can only speak from my experience. About 7 or 8 months ago, my AH went on a downward spiral after losing his job of over 23 years. He was acting all erractic and stuff, talking about killing himself, becoming verbally abusive, manipulative, you know the drill. During an argument, AH said something similar to me. I told him I was leaving, not living like this, etc. In any event, he said to me something to the effect of "it's not over yet, I'm getting the gun" (and he has a hunting rifle). Well, with that, I promptly ran out of the house and called the police. He never did get it (still locked in the box with the other two locks on it) but he was arrested and charged. He was in blackout mode at that time, and I honestly believe he doesn't remember saying it. But he did, and he has to answer for it w/the courts. I really don't think he was going to take my life (most likely was talking about his own life), but I wasn't going to take the chance. He must complete an alcohol treatment program as part of his plea bargain, went to rehab, remained sober for several months, until his brief relapse this past month. What did I do? First, I called the police (of course, they "couldn't" remove him from our home). Next (since he couldn't be removed from our home) I notified his treatment facility. He is back on track for the time being, going 5 nights a week and getting tested every night. But now the courts know and he could face jail time. Is this my fault? No. Who brought this all on? He did. I have to do what I have to do to protect me. Progressive alcoholism leads to domestic violence 9 out of 10times. I hope for your sake YOUR bottom comes before that. Please keep yourself safe.

[LaTeeDa]

Originally Posted by hopeangel

your right i just need to be able to get out of the house and i think it would do me a world of good. i just still haven't been willing or found the strength in myself to leave. i still can't see paying rent and mortgage and possibily ending up in debt.

There are much worse things than ending up in debt. Ending up dead, for one.

L

[queenteree]

Originally Posted by hopeangel

i'm frustrated with myself and my own inablility to get out of this place.


the biggest reason i do not call the police is because i do not want to upset my mother. i don't want her to worry.

Hope - you may not be able to leave your home (I can really understand where you're coming from with that), but you have the ability to REMOVE him from that home by getting the police and court involved. I had a stay away order for several months before it got changed (by my own "stupidity" believing he was serious about his "recovery" - see I take responsibility for my actions LOL).

Second, if the biggest reason you don't want to call the police is you don't want "to upset" your mother - how upset do you think she'll feel if he does put the gun to your head and shoot you????? Never put anything past an alcoholic, especially when he's at the stage your describing.

[Barbara52]

When I left my now xAH, I told him I would pay the mortgage out of the equity line for 5 months and after that he was on his own. He had been unemployed for 2 yrs when I left (he's still unemployed 18 months later BTW). I knew when I stopped paying, the house would eventually go into foreclosure and I would lose all the equity but that was a price I was willing to pay. The house did end up selling, closing 1 week before the foreclosure sale. I got a whopping $1500 out of the house rather than the $150000 I would have gotten if xAH had agreed to sell when I first told him that was what needed to be done.

For me, the freedom from the madness that was my marriage was worth the financial hit. I am now working on getting rid of the credit card debt that resulted from buying all new furniture for my new place.

I never had concerns for my safety. My xAH was not abusive verbally or physically. If he had been, I would have been out of that hosue that day and would not have looked back. My safety and that of my son would have been my top priority.

Whatever financial hit you might take from leaving him is nothing compared to the slow death you are experiencing now from abuse and certainly nothing compared to the possible physical harm/death you are risking by staying.

[hopeangel]

lateeda, "That's not a plan." yep, your right, and it's NO way of life. it's plain awful.

this thought really struck me the other day. i'm just waiting and waiting and waiting...that is NO WAY TO LIVE. it's a nightmare. it's traumatizing. especially when i think of compromising myself as far as the sex thing goes. i don't want to do it, but if it will save him - JUST BEING HONEST ABOUT THE THOUGHTS that go through my head. then i think of how far i have come and how much it would hurt me, like rape or prostitution really. how much damage that does to me emotionally and my self -esteem. how resentful and angry it makes me because i know that i am not happy and that even with him sober i don't think he is what i want. so, he has the perfect thing to hold over my head and blame me with.

i really don't see how this insanity will stop with me living in the same house with him. i really wonder about the recovering that will be ahead of me after this and the damage that it is really doing to me.

i'm waiting for it to somehow magically take care of itself. i really thought the house would have sold by now. i really thought that he would have hit his bottom by now.

you know, how much MORE will it actually take for me to take for me to do what i need to do or before i call the police? that scares me.

and have to be honest about the part of me that still loves him and cares about him (although i see it is more fear than anything else at this point) because i can't justify any of it with his actions towards me the physical, emotional, verbal abuse and still wants to hold onto him when he is sober or hurting and still feels an obligation to save him and the marriage.

i look at the for sale sign outside my beautiful house that i love and just shake my head saying can this actually be happening to me?

i can say that i love myself more now and know what i really want...just can't seem to take the next step towards that.

to top it off i've been dealing with some other stuff also and that is hard. i REALLY appreciate your prayers and support!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[denny57]

Originally Posted by hopeangel

she wants me to call an attorney to find out what the legal ramifications will be if he does something to himself, someone else, or me.

One ramification that springs to mind is your death.

I took xAH's threats very seriously. Blackouts are serious business.

Welcome back, hopeangel, I'm sorry the house has not sold and things have gotten worse.

[hopeangel]

yeah, that's exactly it and i think that is the hardest part of it for me to come to terms with.

it's not like a band-aid just being ripped off... it has become a very long drawn out process, longer than i ever imagined.

it is especially traumitizing and a huge trigger for me because i lost my dad in much the same drawn out way. he had cancer and i watched him die for two full years and and the end there was literally nothing left of him...here the same thing is repeating in my life...only it is soooo much worse, because this person is still alive and i see his body (not his soul) walking around my house every single day

i feel like i am reliving the whole thing over again with the abandonment and grief.

[denny57]

I also watched my father die over a 3 year period. That was HIS life and death. What about YOUR life hopeangel?

[laurie6781]

Good to see you back Hope Angel, but sorry you had to return under these circumstances.

You also stated:

he uses this to turn it on me very effectively i must say and i don't know how to get out of it?

You were speaking of his demands for sex. NO is a complete sentence. No explanations, just NO, and walk away. If he absolutely postively demands this before you can get out of there and insists on an answer, simply tell him he REEKS of alcohol and this makes you very sick. Whether he is drinking right at that moment or not, I would bet that he is now starting to smell like stale alcohol all the time.....no matter how often he showers. It' coming out of his pores. I know I was in his position many many years ago.

Knowing as many alcoholics as I do, some still practicing, some in recovery and some already passed, this man is DANGEROUS.

Please, pack a bag, put it and your important papers in the trunk of your vehicle and get to the Domestic Violence Shelter. This man has verbally ABUSED you and has THREATENED TO KILL YOU. This is part of the 'progression.' Everything escalates..........................the drinking, the threats, the actual violence.

Please take care of you..................................the heck with the house, the heck with 'things.' The only thing important here is YOUR LIFE.

J M H O

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing as we do care very much.

Love and hugs,

[prodigal]

Originally Posted by hopeangel

yeah, that's exactly it and i think that is the hardest part of it for me to come to terms with.

it's not like a band-aid just being ripped off... it has become a very long drawn out process, longer than i ever imagined.

i feel like i am reliving the whole thing over again with the abandonment and grief.

This man is threatening to kill you. You are minimizing that. Alcoholism is a progressive disease. You are witnessing it with your own eyes. The point is, if he goes off and shoots you, you won't have all this stuff to worry about. Dead is not a process or for a long time. Dead is forever.

It's your choice to stay, but I personally don't understand what you're waiting for. Sounds as if AH has checked out of reality.

[embraced2000]

hope, there are other forms that this could take.

my xah threatened me with the most explicit gory details of him killing me. i still stayed. he finally beat me down so mentally that i tried to take my own life.

let me tell you that i am the last person on the face of the earth that anyone would have expected to do something like this.

i had never had a suicidal thought in my entire life. but i did it.

he managed to almost kill me, but at my own hand.

an alcoholic in a black out is a very dangerous person.

i am so concerned for your safety. like you, i felt that i had way too much invested financially just to leave.

hindsight now tells me that i should have walked away. the ramifications of a suicide attempt are just as horrendous as trying to live with the alcoholic.

nothing is more important than your life.

you can still press charges just on his threat.

i read a million and one excuses in your posts why you should just keep protecting him from his actions.

please, for the love of everything holy, think of your own safety. and that means you cannot be safe in your own home with him in it.

there are plenty of places for him to go.....half way houses, salvation army homes, etc.

this is very serious stuff, hope.

it brings tears to my eyes and weighs heavy on my heart that we could very well be logging on to the forum someday and read of a tragedy concerning you.

with love
jeri

[queenteree]

Laurie, While I totally agree with you, I'm willing to bet Hope will not do that. Hope does not seem to want to leave her house, and to that, I can relate. I have been there, done that. I agree, her life is at stake, whether she realizes it or not, and I don't think she truly sees the seriousness of it. I know last year, I would not have either. I would have rationalized it in my own head (in a way, I did) that "technically no gun in the house". What she doesn't realize it not only do guns kill, but so alcoholic husbands would could hit her in just the right spot, push her into a pointy end of a table where she hits her head and bleeds into her brain, choke her, etc. but since she will not leave her house (and if she does, I'm willing to bet she's back in a day or two, which is not proactive, it's reactive), her getting the police involved and getting a stay away order should really be an option. And that's only the beginning. She needs help to stay strong and enforce that order. The courts will have her meet with a domestic violence counselor, who she can call 24/7. They are experience professional and are of a great help. Getting friends and others (relatives, etc.) involved only adds to the drama.
Hope - I'm saying this to you cause I genuinely care about you and I've been in such a similar situation. Please do not take offense, cause it is meant out of concern. It is up to you and only you. You need to make the choice that your life is worth it. I'm not suggesting you leave your house, but there are other options, and sticking with it, as hard as it may be, will eventually bring you the peace you need and deserve. You will eventually realize that you deserve so much better than what you are settling for. I'm not gonna lie, it won't be easy. You will probably have to call the police on your A more than once. I know, deep down, you love him, want him sober and want your marriage back, but unless you are strong and proactive, that isn't even a remote possibility. It can and will only get worse and I urge you to understand the seriousness of it. You've tried it your way, how's it been workin for ya? Nothing changes if nothing changes and nothing has changed, has it?

[embraced2000]

i took my pillow and blanket and ran across the street to my mothers home.

my grown sons went in later and removed all my belongings. i didn't want to leave my life's possessions, but realized that if i stayed, i would be back in the hospital with them trying to save my life.

i was so fragile. still am. but getting better by the day by just not being around his cruelty and insanity. i honestly believe that not only was he an alcoholic, he was also a psociopath (sp).

alcoholics can act upon an impulse, especially if they are in a blackout.

save yourself, first. your stuff and your home can be saved later.

and hope, i would go as fast as i could to get a restraining order and have him removed from the home if you don't want to leave.

i didn't realize how serious a situation i was in. do you, hope?

it is. and we all care for you so much.

love
jeri

[hopeangel]

yes laurie, he does smell. the other night there was a smell in the bedroom and i couldn't place it, but that is it, he does smell pretty bad most of the time now and different than it was before. this is even though he hasn't drank since tues?

anyway, yes, you are all right. i am minimalizing it. i am telling myself that he was just running his mouth, but is that really even possible? i can't imagine saying anything like that to anyone, ever. really. i mean i have heard of people being so mad that they say things like "i want to kill him or her", or " i could just die" things like that, but he said

" maybe i will commit suicide" " nah, i can't do that, i have a show new years eve" when i talked to the father figure/friend, he mentioned to me that AH had said something similiar to him, but he just hinted, as in maybe i should do something stupid, but not being specific. i couldn't really get the exact words out of him though it was like he was not wanting to tell me exactly what AH said, but he did say that he told AH "what would that prove to any of us?"

and he said, not once, but twice, to me "do you want me to hold a shotgun to your head?".... very different than the i'm so mad i want to kill her right? and to believe his "he was just kidding" thing is not even plausible right? i've tried and tried to find the joke in it. i can't, nothing at all funny about it.

usually people do not go into that detailed of a thing right?

also, how do you tell if they are in a blackout really? or just really drunk? anybody know?

no, i don't want to leave my house, or call the police, but i let the friend know that this was a definite possibility.

i also know i am kidding myself if i think that things are better because he hasn't drank sinse tuesday and he is different and calm now.

[queenteree]

Originally Posted by embraced2000

hope, there are other forms that this could take.

he finally beat me down so mentally that i tried to take my own life.

let me tell you that i am the last person on the face of the earth that anyone would have expected to do something like this.

i had never had a suicidal thought in my entire life. but i did it.

he managed to almost kill me, but at my own hand.

like you, i felt that i had way too much invested financially just to leave.

hindsight now tells me that i should have walked away. the ramifications of a suicide attempt are just as horrendous as trying to live with the alcoholic.

nothing is more important than your life.

with love
jeri

Jeri, Not to hijack this thread or anything, but if I hadn't handled my situation w/my AH the way I did, and still continue to do, I shudder to think that I very well may have ended up in a similar situation. I am printing out this post as a constant reminder to myself of your struggle and what could possibly lie ahead for me if I should deviate from my course. Thank you so much. (((Hugs)))

[denny57]

When I share, I don't try to give advice or worry about what the other person will do with my share. I lived in a beautiful estate home. Someone talks of killing me? I'm out of there. I understand the house may be very important to others, it was not to me.

[prodigal]

Originally Posted by hopeangel

anyway, yes, you are all right. i am minimalizing it. i am telling myself that he was just running his mouth, but is that really even possible? i can't imagine saying anything like that to anyone, ever. really.

and he said, not once, but twice, to me "do you want me to hold a shotgun to your head?".... very different than the i'm so mad i want to kill her right? and to believe his "he was just kidding" thing is not even plausible right? i've tried and tried to find the joke in it. i can't, nothing at all funny about it.

usually people do not go into that detailed of a thing right?

also, how do you tell if they are in a blackout really? or just really drunk? anybody know?

Who gives a good cahoot what his motives are, or what people usually do, why he's in a blackout, or if he's in a blackout. Good grief, the man threatened to kill you. Why aren't you getting a restraining order??????

[embraced2000]

hope, how's things going for you?