Complicated Situation

[Jazzman]

Welcome to SR.. everyone has been very nice. The common reaction here is the group hug approach, my reaction isn't.

Originally Posted by houston28

My basic problem is that I am not in love with my wife and I don't know if I ever was..... I had my doubts but I wanted to do the right thing so I married her.

And then brought two more children into a loveless marriage?

Originally Posted by houston28

I told her that I didn't love her as a woman but I do as the mother of our children and that I think we should separate.

You told her this a few weeks from her coming back from rehab? Your timing sucks.

Originally Posted by houston28

I always thought maybe having children meant having to sacrifice many things which is true but I am not so sure about having to sacrifice my happiness.

Look man I'm not trying to be a jerk and I've made plenty of mistakes myself, but I'm not buying this whole speil about you falling on your own sword because you're such a good guy. I'm guessing your entire marriage was tainted by a subtle resentment on your part, probably contributing to your wifes unhappiness. What's done is done so lets look at the real problem.

Get a good lawyer and get educated about your rights as a Father. Treat your girls mother with respect and support her attempt at sobriety as much as you can WITHOUT jeopardizing the emotional health of the girls. I hope for your childrens sake their mother can get and stay sober with her entire world crashing around her, (loss of her Father, struggling with an addiction, marriage out the window... man if she can survive this she's one tough cookie). Your girls will be much better off with a sober mother in their lives so I wish her luck.

It's just these types of posts that scream out the children are hurt more than ANYONE. Sorry if this seems harsh but it's a huge hot button for me. Oh... and if I were you I'd get a vasectomy.

[mle-sober]

Originally Posted by houston28

Thanks mle-sober, your kind words meant a lot to me. I feel so guilty for hurting her like this and I want to help her to get sober. I know that I probably shouldn't feel guilty but I really don't know how to let go of the guilt.

Holy Cow Houston! You've got some variety of opinions here! I usually read and post in the Newcomers Forum since I'm a recoverying alcoholic. But sometimes I come here because I can learn a lot by reading what Friends and Family say.

But I have to say I'm pretty surprised by the angry judgemental posts. Maybe just take what works and leave the rest.

When you say you feel guilty for hurting her and you want to hlep her get sober, it makes me think of a few things. One, going to therapy with her, to AA with her and to Al-anon on your own might help show you are supportive. Even if you want a divorce, therapy can help. There is ugly terrible gut-wrenching divorce and there is just gut-wrenching divorce. It's better for everyone if you can keep the ugly and terrible part out of the picture. Especially for your kids.

Someone mentioned the idea of a breathylizer. When I was saying that I wasn't drinking but I was, I bought my husband a breathylizer to use at his discretion. I thought he wouldn't use it, I guess. He did. And so began the stage in my life where I had to get honest. Buy one. Tell your wife you have one. And use it ANYTIME you want. She should not be drinking when she is responsible for the kids.

So you can even have a written agreement. If she drinks when taking care of kids, you will ask her to move out or get a babysitter or whatever seems right between the 2 of you.

Have a preliminary meeting with a lawyer.

In the meantime, work in therapy toward a divorce that is mutual and as amicable as possible. There are even books to help you do this.

Also, go to AA with her. GO to Al-anon.

And I suspect that things will start to become clear.

Good luck. I think that's all the advice I've got in me. I wish you well. Keep us posted!

[GiveLove]

Can we please try to keep this to experience, strength & hope?

People come here because they're in pain and they're trying to find solutions. I fail to see how it would be helpful if people were to respond to everyone who posts, "Well, if you'd done THIS then you wouldn't be having this problem, would you?????"

There are many posters on this forum, especially those who are new to recovery, whose life choices trigger others. A little restraint will keep this place from descending into a shrill, self-serving judgment-fest that has no value for anyone.

[denny57]

I personally don't see a judgmental post here. Maybe that's why the Al Anon suggestion of take what you like and leave the rest works so well. One person's judgment is another's opinion.

Take what you like and leave the rest.

[GiveLove]

Fascinating....because I find "get a vasectomy" just ever-so-slightly judgmental. Or perhaps jazzman was simply giving medical advice. It also wrapped up a post that skewered a new poster for behavior & choices he had already had the candor to admit, in front of perfect strangers, weren't the best.

In my humble opinion, "Take what you need and leave the rest" doesn' t apply to that kind of viciousness.

If houston28 were female, I doubt that kind of reaction would be tolerated here, least of all by you.

Experience, strength & hope keep this place valuable. Snide remarks cheapen all of our experiences.

[LaTeeDa]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

if I were you I'd get a vasectomy.

There is a big difference between telling someone to do something, and saying "if I were in your situation, this is what I would do."

I didn't see it as judgemental either.

L

[Jazzman]

Houston28 I'm sorry if my post is harsh or offended you in any way, it's not intended to be that way at all. It comes from experience (I've been through the same thing) strength (the advice I offer is the same I would offer my best friend because it's what worked for me, even the vasectomy part) and hope (every child needs two sober parents, I hope yours get that gift, many don't).

You will see many different opinions and approaches here, all are valid and worth the read, but always remember to take what you like and leave the rest.... and keep posting.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by GiveLove

If houston28 were female, I doubt that kind of reaction would be tolerated here, least of all by you.

I that were the case my post would have been very different, I might not have even posted.

If have seen more and more men post in F&F lately and I think it's great that more men are willing to air the dirty laundry that we have been told to keep to ourselves. I also have to remember that this is a co-ed forum and guy talk is not always going to be appropriate. My apologies.. again.

I hope my apologies will be accepted and we can get back to Huston28.

[houston28]

Thanks everyone again for replying to my thread and you all have helped out a lot. Even your post has been helpful Jazzman and I do want to clarify a few things.

I'm not so innocent and trying to play the whoa is me card here. I thought that marrying my pregnant girlfriend was the right thing to do and perhaps I thought my love would grow for her as the marriage went on, but I understand that that was probably a mistake as was having the second child which was actually planned and I don't regret because I love all of my kids so much. The third child was an accident and to make a long story short, my wife had an IUD put in and got pregnant anyhow. When the doctor did an ultrasound of her entire abdomen the IUD was nowhere to be found and he suspected it could have come out during her period. So the third was not my fault but again have no regrets as I could not imagine my life without any of my kids.

Yes my timing sucks and was not my plan to do any of this until after the holidays. However, when I suspected her of relapsing this past Saturday I didn't say anything but I could not hide my disgust. So yesterday she kept asking me what's wrong, what's wrong talk to me. I told her I suspected her of drinking and all my frustration and feelings came out. When she got into her fifth car accident she was the one who brought up that she feels that i don't love her like a husband should love a wife and I didn't deny that when she said it to me.

Also, I don't think I am a good guy and falling on my sword and all that BS. I will be the first to tell you that I have a lot to improve on to become a better man and father. Look I am not in a hurry to do anything and I will participate openly and honestly in MC to investigate if I can get that love for her back. I never said I never was in love with her, I said I'm not sure if I ever was. Believe me I don't want to feel what I feel. The one thing I have learned from the process is that I am not to blame for her drinking. So if she felt my resentment and that made her unhappy I am truly sorry but she made the decision to drink and endanger the lives of our children.

Lastly, Jazzman thanks for your suggestion, but guess what? I had a vasectomy over 3 years ago because even though I am not sure where my marriage was headed I have enough kids and even if I end up divorced and meet someone else I don't want to have any more. Thanks again and I appreciate everything you good people have offered to me. Peace.

[Jazzman]

Good for you, I hate it when guys wont talk about personal "stuff" or pull that vasectomyphobia crap about nobody's going near my family jewels yada yada.

Hey man, this whole thing sucks and I'm here to tell you it can and does get better. I stand by my advice to talk to a good lawyer. Your childrens welfare is your top priority and I already knew you loved your kids and wouldn't change a thing. I love mine too..even my PINA teenager, but that's another post.

But also keep in mind that relapse is a part of recovery for an addict. Maybe your wife can learn from this and move on, maybe it's not time to throw in the towel just yet. I would encourage you to think of her recovery and happily ever after as two different issues all together. I would also encourage you to learn all you can about addiction and get support form where ever you can, therapy, Alanon, reading. The stickies at the top of the F&F forum that are a really good start.

[loner1968]

Don't take this the wrong way but It made me sad when you said you never loved your wife. How do you know? Is it just because you are unhappy? Did you ever feel like you loved her or did it all happen too fast? She got pregnant after 6 months. What about those first six months before she got pregnant? What did you see in her? I'm just wondering that's all.

[loner1968]

sorry i guess you answered my questions earlier

[Franticwife]

Originally Posted by equinessa

By jingos, i just re-read that and it sounds a bit tough. I'm sorry. I think it is because i cannot imagine how that must feel for your wife as well, knowing that you do not/never have loved her. And fighting an addiction to alcohol on top of it all.

A very sad situation.

Best thoughts for the five of you.

I must say my first thoughts were also for your poor wife, as Equinessa's were. You can't fool a woman - she has known from the start that you didn't love her, and I just wonder if that is the reason she started drinking. Of course you must separate, even if she were not an alcoholic. There is nothing more soul-destroying than loving someone who you know doesn't love you. And remember, there are plenty of women out there on their own, bringing up kids and also being "the sole bread-winner" (I was one).

[LaTeeDa]

Originally Posted by Franticwife

I must say my first thoughts were also for your poor wife, as Equinessa's were. You can't fool a woman - she has known from the start that you didn't love her, and I just wonder if that is the reason she started drinking. Of course you must separate, even if she were not an alcoholic. There is nothing more soul-destroying than loving someone who you know doesn't love you. And remember, there are plenty of women out there on their own, bringing up kids and also being "the sole bread-winner" (I was one).

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the "poor wife" characterization. He is an adult who chose to marry someone in order to have a family. She is an adult who chose to marry him for whatever reason. It takes two. As for his lack of love causing her to drink--give me a break. There are plenty of ways to cope with problems in life that don't involve drowning yourself in a bottle. He is not that powerful, just as none of us is that powerful. If we were, we could all make our alcoholics stop drinking, couldn't we?

The only ones in this sad story who did not have the benefit of choosing are the children. Any and all decisions made from here should be made in their best interests.

L

[houston28]

Frantic Wife

My wife knowing that I don't love her could certainly be a trigger to make her drink but i am not responsible for her addiction. And yes my mother raised me as a single mom and she did well despite having to work her butt off.

[houston28]

Thanks LaTeeDa

Totally agree that the kids are innocent bystanders and I want to do whatever will affect them the least. I just need to figure out what that is. I also agree with all the poster saying to consult with a lawyer and I have made an appt. to do that this week. I also think that I should get a breathalyzer.

[ToughChoices]

Originally Posted by Franticwife

she has known from the start that you didn't love her, and I just wonder if that is the reason she started drinking.

I've spent a lot of time cultivating the belief that no one causes another person's alcoholism.

I didn't cause it.
I can't control it.
I can't cure it.

I have compassion for a woman whose husband does not love her.
I also have compassion for a man whose wife is drinking alcoholically, thereby rendering her unable to parent their children.

This is a sad situation. For everyone.

[Jazzman]

Originally Posted by houston28

I also think that I should get a breathalyzer.

Maybe I'm just naive but isn't a breathalyzer kind of mute? I'm trying to picture the scenario... your girls need a ride, your wife says "I'll run them up there", then you say... OK honey, just blow in this first... OK?

I could tell in a heart beat when M was drunk... just by the look in her eyes. I didn't need a breathalyzer and it wouldn't have stopped her from driving because I couldn't be there all the time. And when things were at their worst here I have told my boys (from a previous marriage) don't get in the car with M. I understand your girls are much younger but I'm just wondering if that would really produce the desired result.

You mentioned earlier something about five car accidents... was she drinking?Was she ever charged with a DUI? Also, is this her first rehab? Was it a 30 day in house with a solid follow up program? Has she attended AA meetings regularly?

[houston28]

jazzman

I also know when my wife has been drinking and I cannot control if she is driving around with my kids after drinking. I wanted to get the breathalyzer for those times when I know she is drunk and she lies to me and says she has not been.

She has never gotten a DUI. One accident was close to home and she said it was a hit and run and was unable to get the plate number of the car that supposedly hit her. I have paid for a new suspension and the mechanics said that what happened could have only happened if the car jumped a curb. Wife said she doesn't remember going up on a curb. I guess she has gotten very lucky.

She was in rehab for just ten days and came out very positive about her sobriety. She is attending AA meetings almost every night. At least that what she tells me, but I can't go out and follow her around when I need to be home with my girls.

[FormerDoormat]

I didn't need a breathalyzer to know my boyfriend was lying. He was an alcoholic. He drank. Every day. And he lied about it every time I asked him if he'd been drinking.

From what you've shared here, your wife lies about her drinking, she lies about where she's been, who she's been talking to, who's she's been sleeping with, who was responsible for her multiple car accidents. She lies.

She's a drinker, a cheater, and a liar. That's a given. So why waste your time, money, or energy on a breathalyzer? Wouldn't it be a better use of time to focus on how to protect your children from her?

[baileyboop]

My E, S, and H for you is to continue to be honest and upfront about your feelings, whatever they may be. Honesty is something I expect in a relationship and is directly tied to my ability to trust. In my opinion, it is almost hypocritical to expect honesty and not give it in return. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that it was bad timing when you expressed yourself. I have to ask if there really is a great time to tell someone, " hey..I don't know if I have ever loved you and I might wanna leave?" I'm a personal believer in the cliche that the truth shall set you free...
So, hugs to you...cause I can say that for me, it was hard, hard, hard living with an active A and making clear healthy decisions. Take a deep breath Houston. Take care.

[mle-sober]

Originally Posted by Jazzman

Maybe I'm just naive but isn't a breathalyzer kind of mute? I'm trying to picture the scenario... your girls need a ride, your wife says "I'll run them up there", then you say... OK honey, just blow in this first... OK?

I could tell in a heart beat when M was drunk... just by the look in her eyes. I didn't need a breathalyzer and it wouldn't have stopped her from driving because I couldn't be there all the time.

Umm... actually, that is EXACTLY the scenario that sent me to rehab and down my recovery path as of 10 months ago. I was saying I wasn't drinking but was hiding wine bottles everywhere. When my husband asked if I'd been drinking, I lied and thought I was effective. He knew I wasn't telling the truth but it was hard for him to believe I would be so blatant and stupid about it. When you are looking at the mother of your children, you don't want to believe.

I gave him the breathylyzer to prove I had nothing to hide. (I get stupider and stupider in this story.)

One night, after I'd been drinking for hours, I was going to put 2 of my 4 kids in the car and drive them 20 minutes on the freeway to their dad's house. (Kids from a prior marriage.) I didn't feel like there was anything wrong with me. I felt normal. My normal was drunk off my a$$. I didn't even know it. I'd been drinking for 25 years.

I said goodbye to my husband and told the kids to get in the car. My husband said, casually, "You, know, just to make me feel better, I want you to blow in that breath test you got me. I'll just feel better." I followed him up the stairs with my heart beating a million miles a minute. I knew I was going to be exposed. I'd had 2 bottles of wine in probably 2-3 hours.

I had all kinds of scenarios run through my brain as I went up the stairs. Grab my purse and run scenarios. Escape out the back scenarios. And then we were in my bedroom and he was unwrapping the breath test and reading the instructions. My legs wouldn't hold me up I was so scared. I sat on the bed and took the test. He looked at it and dropped in on the bed and walked out saying, I guess the kids are staying here tonight.

And finally, for the first time ever in my life, I fell down on my knees and I begged for help with my alcoholism. I admitted to God that I was an alcoholic then and there for the first time ever. And I begged him to help me.

I don't know why it took a simple un-masking of my deceit in order for me to get help and find recovery. But that's exactly what it took. Prior to that, I'd been drinking for 9 months and hiding it - saying what I thought others wanted to hear, but never really "getting it" inside myself. Prior to that, I'd been openly drinking for 24 years without ever accepting in any way that I had a problem.

Don't assume a breathylyzer is mute.

Just because you can tell your wife has been drinking, doesn't mean a breath test couldn't be a powerful tool. And obviously, Jazzman, it's not intended for times when you aren't there to administer it. It's intended precisely for when you are there and she is lying to you.

[equinessa]

Where the breathaliser may be useful for satisfying your knowledge that your wife isn't drinking at that particular moment, it won't alter the fact that if she wants to she can get a negative reading and then go for the whole box and bottle once you are out of range. Whilst she is out for example. I think it also keeps your focus on your AW, feeds your obsession with her drinking. To me it is just another version of counting empties. (Oh how I know this futile act of counting bottles). It serves no purpose whatsoever, except to wreck your day, and perhaps give your AW the amunition to accuse you of trying to control her behaviour, which of course, you are. We all have and do, but we are learning not to one day at a time.

Houston I don't have any idea how you are going to stop your AW driving when ever she wants to with or without the children in the car. But I suspect that in the US, as in Aust there are child protection laws within family law that can at the very least become court orders. Enforcing those laws is another matter entirely. Even if you separate there is every chance that your AW will have joint custody. If her disease remains untreated she will continue to drive under the influence of alcohol with and without the children in the car.

You are going to see a Lawyer so that is the first step in using the law to protect your children. But IMHO a step toward the doors of Al-anon may give you the support needed to deal with all of this yourself, and that will ultimately be of major benefit to your girls.

[LaTeeDa]

Originally Posted by baileyboop

My E, S, and H for you is to continue to be honest and upfront about your feelings, whatever they may be. Honesty is something I expect in a relationship and is directly tied to my ability to trust. In my opinion, it is almost hypocritical to expect honesty and not give it in return. Someone mentioned in an earlier post that it was bad timing when you expressed yourself. I have to ask if there really is a great time to tell someone, " hey..I don't know if I have ever loved you and I might wanna leave?" I'm a personal believer in the cliche that the truth shall set you free...
So, hugs to you...cause I can say that for me, it was hard, hard, hard living with an active A and making clear healthy decisions. Take a deep breath Houston. Take care.

This is a very insightful post. It got me thinking that it was really a chicken or egg question with me. Did I stop loving him because of the drinking, or was the love all in my imagination to begin with and the drinking just made me realize it? I don't think I'll ever know the answer to that question. It doesn't really matter now, but I know I was in denial for a really long time.

L

[denny57]

I, too, believe "the truth shall set you free." What my experience has been is that doesn't mean it always feel good. There can be serious repercussions to stating your truth and as I long as I realize I can't control other people's reactions to it, I'm fine.