Waste products and oscillating mechanisms

[coyote21]

How about a nice Manhug? ((((((Redd))))). That's what I call em in my Alanon group! Any way, I'm sorry for your pain....man I been there.

You don't realize it yet, but your life is going to get about 100x better, and much sooner than you can imagine.

Good job Redd, I love you man.

Thanks and God bless us all,
Coyote

[Reddmax]

Right at this moment, the divorce proceedings are temporarily on hold. Basically, we want to figure out how to do this right. There are three types of divorce in the state I'm in so we have to figure the why's and wherefore's.

The AW doesn't want a divorce. I told her that something has to change for me to continue the relationship. She is thinking about her options, and we will discuss it over the weekend.

In my case, without children or a huge estate, it doesn't matter who files first, or what each of us does.

I've heard the opinions on setting conditions. They vary, but fundamentally, the alcoholic has to make the decisions for their own lives. I'm letting her do that. She has to figure out for herself what she wants for her life.

I guess I can look at it in different ways, and through your eyes too. This is business as well as a relationship.

If she gets into a program, that's great for her. I'll make sure before I do anything that its great for me too.

Redd

[Lilyflower]

Originally Posted by Reddmax

...They vary, but fundamentally, the alcoholic has to make the decisions for their own lives. I'm letting her do that. She has to figure out for herself what she wants for her life.

And you should do this too Redd, the way out is through. You were all set on divorce, what happened to sway you? Is there a glimmer of the denial called false hope? - that Redd is hoping that she has changed because he left and threatened to file? Were you hoping all along that she would change because of this?

Once I began making decisions for me based on what was in my best interests I got healthier and happier.

Perhaps the grief is hard and you are looking for a way back in? Ponder these things Redd before you go back to her, because Codependancy is a hard addiction to break too and I find I need to examine my motives and my ''messages'' before I understand why I am doing what I am doing.

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[LaTeeDa]

I just wanted to share something that worked for me. I was much like you, Redd. Fed up and burned out and exhausted, but not ready to take that big, daunting step called DIVORCE. But, like you, I knew I couldn't go on living like I had been. So, we separated. Not even legally--just living apart. I gave myself six months as a timeline to sort out what I wanted, and that gave him six months to do whatever he was going to do.

Ultimately, it didn't work out in reconciliation for me, but that doesn't mean it won't for you. I just don't want to see you trap yourself into only two choices--stay together or get a divorce--when there are other options that might work better for you. Just remember to keep your sanity and safety at the top of your priority list.

L

[ToughChoices]

Can I second, LaTeeDa?

I'm currently separated - not divorced - from my AH.
Life has improved for me DRAMATICALLY.
I have the space and the peace to make decisions that benefit myself and my child.

If, in time, I decide that divorce is the best option for me, pursuing that process will not be difficult. I already have a separate residence, separate bank account, separate credit card, etc...
If, in time, I decide that I would like to continue a relationship with my husband, I will make the arrangements.

It was silly for me to wait to make the arrangements to live on my own while he was still drinking. It makes much more sense to prepare myself for the possibility that he will continue to drink (since he is) than to base my life on the hope that, maybe, someday, he will stop.

Now, if he does stop, great! We'll see what we both want if that time comes.
If he doesn't stop - I'm right smack in the middle of a good life without him.

Something to think about.
-TC

[Reddmax]

I don't know about false hope. We worked out a seperation agreement last night. Now we have to see if she follows it. I will have contact with her from time to time, as there are things to do at the house that only I can do (mainly because of strength and knowledge about those things), and because there must be some communication going on. I don't know how all of you handled these issues, and any advice would be appreciated. From a financial point of view, there are issues that need to be discussed, and I really need to be involved.

My choices are:

Seperation - and take the risk of financial impact

Nasty divorce - and take the financial impact

Collaborative divorce - reduced financial impact

reconciliation - bigger risk, but maybe worth it?

Is there anything I missed?

Redd

My personal belief is that whatever happens should happen with dignity. I, personally, would prefer to divorce by agreement rather than litigation. Fortunately, I have both those bases covered.

[denny57]

You said previously your wife did not want this divorce/separation. How can it be collaborative?

I also could not "discuss" anything with an active alcoholic. Perhaps she is different.

I was very fortunate that in my divorce I had Al Anon, a therapist and a family doctor reining in my "niceness." Otherwise my screen name would now be filthy doormat.

Good luck, Redd, without choice you make.

[Reddmax]

Denny57,

I have a good therapist, a good lawyer, and plenty of support. Have not yet found a good al-anon group.

The risk in this is that addicts lie. Thats why I'm going to keep my options open.

Collaborative divorce includes the couple and their attorney's. All 4 sit down and engage in the discussion. You also sign an agreement not to go to court. Therefore, you're limited to what's legal, and what's possible. As long as the AW doesn't show up to a conference drunk, it should work. If it doesn't, then we go to litigation.

Redd

[LaTeeDa]

Originally Posted by Reddmax

My choices are:

Seperation - and take the risk of financial impact

Nasty divorce - and take the financial impact

Collaborative divorce - reduced financial impact

reconciliation - bigger risk, but maybe worth it?

Is there anything I missed?

Yes. You missed the idea that just because you choose something now, that is best for you NOW, doesn't mean the other options are off the table. For instance, as I mentioned above, you could choose separation now, and give yourself a period of time before you choose the next step.

One of the hardest things I had to overcome was my attitude that everything in life is either yes or no, black or white, now or never. Life is very messy and full of shades of grey. The lesson I learned is to do what is best for me RIGHT NOW. Then, when the future comes, do what's best AGAIN. Too much awfulizing, or hopeful romanticizing over what MIGHT happen keeps me stuck.

L

[GrowingPains]

I'd like to "third" LaTeeDa and ToughChoices. I don't have it in me yet to file for divorce either and I identify with the pain you speak of. It was excruciating at first -- worse than anything I've ever experienced.

We have been separated "illegally" for just over a month now and I know it was the right decision. My life is peaceful and I'm generally happy. I have spent a little time with AH and LOVE that I'm truly detached now, as I wasn't able to accomplish that living in the same house as he. I don't see him making a change in the near future, as he's a heavy drinker / binger and believes that one can't be an alcoholic if one doesn't drink every day. Because of that, I'm not interested in going back to the way we were.

It is SO much easier to get one's head together living apart than it is together. You can do this now and worry about the divorce when/if you are ready to.

[YellowRed]

Well done Redd for standing your ground. It might feel hollow right now but in time you'll reaise it was the right thing to do to protect yourself. You can only go on being ground down for so long before it affects you seriously (physicaly as well as mentally). Good luck with the next steps.

I decided to divorce my STBXAH. I decided that for the sake of my own self-esteem, I would be fair and 'play nice' in my divorce. I always thought that my STBXAH would do the same. I have been so wrong. Like Denny's point, it's been very difficult to 'negotiate' or 'agree' anything with him - as you say, they lie: they also think it's OK to go back on/vary any agreement you make, which makes achieving an agreement with any degree of certainty difficult. I am working on a negotiated divorce becasue it gives us the potential for more flexibility in division of assets and timing. However, I am still approaching it in - like someone else here said - a businesslike fashion - not bringing emotions into play.

Earlier posters were right:
- expect the unexpected
- accept all the support you can

I find it helpful to have an agenda for my meetings with the lawyers and STBXAH. Gives me a prop to focus on and helps me to keep the conversation on track and on the financial matters rather than allowing anything else to creep in. Best of luck. Expect the worst (then you won't be disappointed!

Once you start to get through it, I'm sure you'll understand what you need to do for you.