Alcoholic or Sociopath?

Old 07-12-2009, 02:24 PM
  # 21 (permalink)  
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Love coming here and reading posts like this day after day, week after week, here in F and F, and it's evidently considered OK to make blanket statements like this:

Well, the addict and the alcoholic both are the most selfish people on the face of the planet. They think ONLY of themselves, and we are just puppets to be manipulated by them.
They are all sociopaths if you ask me.
I'm gone, this is just no longer healthy or healing for me to read stuff like this on a regular basis.

I have tried to bring this up on a regular basis and been informed repeatedly that it's "my problem" and I just need to "deal with it", I now choose to "deal with it" by "voting with my feet"

bye kids
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Old 07-12-2009, 05:48 PM
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I think it is important for those involved with addicts to have a safe place to vent and call them any and every name they want to.

The longer I have been in recovery the easier it has become to not take things personally; to take what I like and leave the rest; and to understand that what someone else thinks of me is none of my business.

FWIW, I am an addict.
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Old 07-13-2009, 06:05 PM
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When you are at this point it is important to ask, how much of your day are you devoting to yourself? Are you getting enough rest, taking care, eating well, staying active and busy? The more we invest in healthy, happy activities, the less likely we will care about the negative things that others do. To the point of affecting you, ignore them and get out of the point of impact range. The best thing you can do is look out for you right now.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by sandrawg View Post
Sure-I can try to answer this question.

Sociopaths act in complete and total disregard for other peoples' feelings. They lack empathy. They act selfishly.

Active alcoholics, because they are driven by their need for their drug, act in complete and total disregard for other peoples' feelings.

My exabf-he played games with my head, in order to perpetuate the denial of his problem and to keep me on the leash. See, the partner of an alcoholic is subject to all kinds of insane situations because that's what drinking does-it wreaks havoc on people's lives. Alcoholics live with guilt and shame, so they lie and manipulate...they minimize and rationalize...not because they're bad people, but because they have to feed their addiction and keep the codependent on the hook to continue to take care of them.

I've heard stories of alcoholics driving drunk with their CHILDREN in the car. If this doesn't seem sociopathic to you, what does?
Sorry to bring this old thread up. I am dealing with a similar problem and found this. I know a bit about psychopaths, but I do not know whether AA can help them.

There are two types of behavior that psychopaths exhibit a) agressive narcisism (lack of remorse, lack of empathy, manipulation, lying etc.) and b) anti social behavior (irresponsibility, disregard for rules and the law, etc.)

Almost all alcoholics have b, and of course alcohol abuse is an example of b as well. Certainly something like driving drunk with kids is anti-social behavior. When I drank, I would also lie and manipulate others to get rid of the consequences of my actions. However, I would feel incredible remorse over my behavior, as do most alcoholics.

I really think the "Alcoholism is but a symptom" line in AA, is largely untrue. With myself, once I stopped drinking, I stopped missing work, getting DUIs, etc. and so then I didn't have to lie and manipulate my way out of that trouble. I certainly have other character defects that I have to deal with, but simply not drinking solved the bulk of them.

That said, it's difficult to tell whether or not someone actually feels remorse or empathy unless, as a psychopath could easily feign those emotions. So it is definitely true that you cannot get an accurate diagnosis until they get sober. Furthermore, it is not an either/or situation. Sociopaths are much more likely to alcoholics than the rest of the population. It's not as if you can somehow "cure" a sociopath, and then they will stop drinking or be able to drink responsibly.

This is true with all psychiatric problems. During my drinking, I had been diagnosed as bipolar by two different psychiatrists. I had tried to convince myself that once I addressed the bipolar, I could drink, which wasn't the case. After eighteen months of sobriety, I had the diagnosis reexamined by four different psychiatrists, all of whom said that I wasn't bipolar.

This brings me to my problem. I have a friend of sorts, who I used to work with when I was still using. At this time, I was 23 and he was 18. I enjoyed spending time with him, but I never respected his character. He did not seem to be drinking alcoholically at this point to me, but he did express psychopathic behavior. An example: He had been trying to get me to go to a strip club, which I was not particularly interested in going to. When he offered to pay, I figured, I figured, "why not?," if only that he'd pay for my alcohol. He then picked up his phone called his parents and demanded they wire him money because he had car trouble, and then started screaming at them when they said that they would not be able to go to Western Union until the next day. This to me, is something completely outside of typical alcoholic behavior.

I mention this, because I had pretty much cut ties with him since I got sober, and had not heard from him in years until he just contacted me telling me he thought I was an alcoholic and wanted my help. He looked up to me when we were working together, and I think I am in a unique position to help if he is serious.

However, my concern is that I am not clear if AA is sufficient to deal with these larger problems. In fact, I'm concerned that it will just be another outlet to use for his own ends. Also, I do not know if this could even by a way for him to manipulate himself back into my life.

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with dealing with helping get psychopathic alcoholics sober, and if they have any advise.

Please let me know.

Thanks
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:59 PM
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Long ago I read a study that showed alcoholism causes sociopathology. Therefor, if they aren't sociopaths before becoming alcoholics, they may well become sociopaths when they become alcoholics. Of course, that doesn't mean they weren't sociopaths to begin with.
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Old 02-15-2010, 03:58 PM
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hey robert,

first of all, i am confused. i thought this thread was started by "otis" and just now reading your post, sounds like it is yours? perhaps it is just related to what your own issue is?

ok, you are obviously an intelligent, and articulate guy. my personal opinion, is that most, if not all, of what you just said: true. but then you asked the question about helping a sociopath, who is also alcoholic. i believe that the diagnosis of "socio" or "psycho" (both correct) -path is in part, that they are simply this way. they have probably the worse track record for rehabilitation, because they are simply the way they are. (i guess i think that they may not have been "born that way" but their abuse has been so profound, and they are sort of pre-wired for mental illness, so that's how they become one....in my opinion).

regarding what ago said -- kinda rubs me wrong too, but as the next poster said, we take what we like and leave the rest. we've discussed this type of thing here before, and i do bristle, but am learning that even though i want to be sensitive to those who have been badly wounded, and not be so cutting in our remarks, the ones who are (as ago would probably say) abrasive, have also been hurt by this disease.

and one more thing i'd really like to say:
my xah was a quiet, polite, sensitive and kind man. well, still is. (when i had a 9-hour surgery for cancer in 2008, his face was the first one i saw when i came out of recovery). that kindness doesn't make him not an alcoholic, and doesn't change the fact that even with the good qualities, i decided i did not want to continue with him, no longer loved him as a wife should love her husband. he was broken, and for whatever reasons, not willing to find healing.

i do think it does people a disservice to place them all in one giant basket and slap a label on it.
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Old 02-16-2010, 06:01 AM
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re: Not Happy, Alcoholism doesn't cause sociopathy, but it can cause sociopathic behavior. A technical distinction, but it has implications dealing

re: coffeedrinker. I guess our problems were similar. I had not been on this forum, and just googled Alcoholism and Sociopaths or something like that and this was one of the few things of substance that came up. I see your point about taking what we can handle, and believe that can apply in a lot of life.

Fortunately, I am not particularly emotionally attached to this friend, as a lot of people are; as it seems like a lot of the earlier posters in this forum are, so I don't think it will difficult for me to give him a few tools to try to help himself, and give him some guidance, but also set boundaries.
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:13 AM
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Hi all. I will negate that all AAs are sociopaths..but I am finding that one specific person in our group might be and others are not seeing it. I have been doing much study and doing for today the best I can , God's will for me. I was having suspicious and questions toward what that was...and the ky for myself is much different than others. There is a book out there "Highly Sensiteve People". I drank because I am one, and finally see it. It is a gift if it is realized and not turned against oneself as psychologist would see it as being too sensitive and having low esteem. I heard them (many doctors, I also had anorexia nervosa which is polar oppositie of alcholism for most...so the meetings disturb me a lot sometimes)..However, with some intelligence, being an HSP..it is much easier to see the veils of deceit in people's eyes. There is one person in our group that dropped a bomb at me last night in casual passing that could have torn me apart..but God is working with me..He had me learn about sociopaths right as i was getting sober and before i started AA. Amazing! I did not know why I was interested in the topic other than i know two others in my life before the alcohol days..the topic of the meeting was Step 6 and 7. I talked that in Step 6..we are presenting humility before God's eyes..but earlier i stated that i was not sure if I could be totally honest with myself because there is always doubt. Some misinterpreted what i was saying I am sure. What I was saying was that I am insecure about some things, because namely, I do not know for sure what I say..how it affects others..and I care about that. The security of my insecurities is being able to identify that in some way I am insecure..and I need God to reassure me it that although the world is a nasty place in many ways..He is with me. My insecurity brings me Wisdome of Gods word..I love him os dearly..he provides the eyes of the heart...which contain and knows of wisdom. People there will not understand..they are not HSPs in general..some are though and have a hard time. I had a very very bad time with booze, but when the time came..I quit..like that even while suffering from withdrawals. Now desire to drink whatsoever. I do not believe for me in the disease concept...it keeps them coming back to be fixed..when all they really need is closer contact with God. Does this sound like sociopathy to you? All I care about is wanting to feel love and to give it away..my goal now is to learn the best way to convey it. You all here a special to my being..because your a awesome people. We need to know this..it is not about me..it is about we. I hope someone feels this way too.
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Old 01-31-2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by olinda1 View Post
"... it is nearly impossible to accurately diagnose mental illness in a practicing alcoholic, would also think that this would be true of an addict of any kind. Think about the things that folks do while they're out there, remarkably sociopathic. "

Really? Can anybody hazard a guess as to why an alcoholic might seem sociopathic? What's the connection? Is narcissism part and parcel of addiction? Aren't there "lovely, kind, wonderful except for the alcoholism "type of alcoholics?__________________
This x100

I beleive its rather simple....

The alcohol/DOC is all one is focused on/cares about Subconciously. Anytime life gets in the way of their using.... their priorities manifest themselves as being pissed off at nearly everything.

Cant tell you how many times I have driven like a road-raged maniac on the way to picking up. Normally I drive carefully and conscientiously. When I wanted to pick up I would have run people off the road. I did not care. I was void of empathy and only cared about one thing.

I do not think you can diagnose (certain) mental illness to an addicted person...
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:36 AM
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I'm new to this forum and am finding it so awesome! Thanks everyone. I spent weeks "diagnosing" my alcoholic ex by reading up on scores of personality disorders, to uncover what was *beneath* the alcoholism or like *in addition* to the alcoholism and it ultimately seemed like a pretty big waste of time because it seems like alcoholism is enough of a problem on its own and that there might not actually need to be some other additional thing which would account for his insane behaviours. When i asked my ex why he'd treated me so off-the-hook terribly he just told me that he was probably a sociopath. I feel like his self-diagnosis appealed to him in some way--like that he was proud of himself for it--probably because it enabled him to be totally unaccountable yet again.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:33 AM
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Hi, I found your post whilst looking for more information about sociopaths. I am now very aware that my X Husband who was an alcoholic, was also a sociopath, as you say the latter are often prone to substance abuse, my husband also took cocaine if the high wasnt enough [without my knowledge at the time]. His main traits as a sociopath were his feelings of being more special, above others, everything being others faults and most importantly his parasitic lifestyle. He marries or lives with people for their resources, what they can offer whilst it suits him, this sadly was the case for me and he has since lived with at least one other person to fulfil a need and has now married someone with all the resources, he comes to the table with nothing, never pays the utility bills etc. He now has bad debts hanging over him too, he is happy not to pay bills, walk away etc, all signs of being a sociopath. An alcoholic will often of course, display the same sorts of symptoms but conversely, they may hold down life time marriage, jobs, mortgages etc..my ex is incapable of this. Lastly, he was always planning for our future, they were always changed or didnt happen. Since he left my brother in law actually said, he changes his plans on a daily basis, again a sign of a sociopath, disfunctional behaviour...It is hard to admit that I was just a resource, but he showed no remorse for the devestation he left behind and never does, he is a blamer...Anyway, I hope that what I have said is of interest. Your friend is probably just both, an alcoholic and sociopath, sadly...
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:08 AM
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You cannot tell for sure if a person is a sociopath or suffers from anti-social personality disorder until they are in recovery for a very long time. All addicts display these traits while using.

I struggled with this same question about my brother for a very long time. He fits the description perfectly but until he is sober & in recovery for an extended period of time, I will never know for sure.
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Old 02-07-2013, 02:58 PM
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Sanity Saver

I spent a lot of time on this site in the period after my husband left me, it was 4 years on 31st January and I am very happy to say I have moved on. No, I do not have another partner, but I am in a good place, apart from lifes normal issues, like older parents who worry me like mad...but when I first came on this site, I did not believe I could get past the betrayal of an alcoholic and his cold dismissal..you can and you will, honestly it is true...read my old posts...I can vouch for my recovery.....
I won't be visiting this site again for all the best reasons, but I wish everyone the very very best and thank you to this site and its participants..What can I say, time is a healer and we look back with hindsight..but whatever you do, look forward...it is worth it...
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:17 PM
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Run like the devil's chasing you! xabf had me read his custody papers when we first started dating that said he had narcasistic traits and antisocial personality. The psychiatrist continued on in his evaluation stating xabf had absolutly no empathy for others and felt no remorse for anything. I ignored it because xabf had 'proven' otherwise. Those with antisocial personality disorder do not have the ability to care about you. They do not feel guilty or sad about hurting you. No regard for right and wrong. Disregard for rules (laws). Alcoholic and drug problems. The sociopath is the extreme spectrum of Antisocial Personality. I'm not sure where you have been doing your research at; but I suggest the Mayo Clinic website.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ReflectingOnMe View Post
Run like the devil's chasing you! xabf had me read his custody papers when we first started dating that said he had narcasistic traits and antisocial personality. The psychiatrist continued on in his evaluation stating xabf had absolutly no empathy for others and felt no remorse for anything. I ignored it because xabf had 'proven' otherwise. Those with antisocial personality disorder do not have the ability to care about you. They do not feel guilty or sad about hurting you. No regard for right and wrong. Disregard for rules (laws). Alcoholic and drug problems. The sociopath is the extreme spectrum of Antisocial Personality. I'm not sure where you have been doing your research at; but I suggest the Mayo Clinic website.
Yes, the info I got was from the Mayo clinic.. they have a lot of other great stuff as well, like how to look after ourselves..which is what counts now!. Bless you
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:11 AM
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I used to post on here awhile ago, about a friend of mine who I have been struggling with for years now.
Have you asked yourself why you're still hanging on to a disastrous relationship?
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