Still wondering...

[anamchara]

about enabeling. I've been to counseling (years) , read the books, including Melody Beattie's twice...and still I struggle to see my actions objectively.

I do not lie for my AH, I allow him to assume the consequences for his actions - and yet,

when confiding to a friend/mentor recently, she made the comment, "yes, but after he's been drunk, life goes on as normal in the house"

I was telling her about the cycles -- AH sober for a long while, overindulgence/drunk on occasion, followed by my disappointment/hurt, followed by AH's guilt/remorse and resolve to get back on track.

It's the same cycle that's been going on for 15 years, with varying degrees.

I always want peace in the house, stability for my kids, forgiveness. As I am aware of the cycles (knowing this will occur again, because his desire to be sober varies) and how I can detach from it, HOW am I enabling him?

When my friend said, (paraphrase) 'Yes, he feels guilty and apologizes, but things go back to "normal" and nothing changes in his comfortable life'

The way I see it, the consequence of AH actions are #1) I am more emotionally detached from him and #2 ) the kids, my older son in particular, get a lesson on ill choices (by me talking with them) and what abuse of alcohol can do.

Am I enabling his behaviour by staying here?! carrying on with daily activities? forgiving him every time?

please help me see this clearly...

[melbar4]

I too wonder what the line is between enabling and detaching. I have detached in many of our attempts and my daughter always points out, "You are just letting him get away with anything. You are still just picking up his mess." I would love to hear any experiences on this too. Sending you {{{HUGS}}}.
Melissa

[cityguy]

This is so tough- I did 16 years of enabling my addict ex wife and then left. The break was painful for everyone (we have tow children) and I still deal with the guilt, but in hindsight, I would have left a lot earlier. Now my kids have one sane parent and love us both, but look to me for leadership and guidance and STABILITY. You are with AH for the kids it sounds like- stability with the kids. I know that one. In the end, we make choices. God Bless you with your decisions.

[nowinsituation]

Enabling or not, I don't know. I know I was taking care of the whole family -- because he couldn't (wouldn't?) do anything. It was hard to find a line where it was only him that I could detach from and still live in the same house. I don't think I really thought it through clearly while I was living it; i just knew something was wrong. Certain things have to happen in a household -- and I was doing the lion's share -- and yes it was making it comfortable for him, so why should he change? Good question -- I'd like to hear what other think!

[Growing]

anamchara, I wondered what enabling meant also, so I googled it. This is what I found, hope it helps:

Enabling Takes Many Forms

Many times when family and friends try to "help" alcoholics, they are actually making it easier for them to continue in the progression of the disease.
This baffling phenomenon is called enabling, which takes many forms, all of which have the same effect -- allowing the alcoholic to avoid the consequences of his actions. This in turn allows the alcoholic to continue merrily along his (or her) drinking ways, secure in the knowledge that no matter how much he screws up, somebody will always be there to rescue him from his mistakes.

What is the difference between helping and enabling? There are many opinions and viewpoints on this, some of which can be found on the pages linked below, but here is a simple description:

Helping is doing something for someone that they are not capable of doing themselves. Enabling is doing for someone things that they could, and should be doing themselves.

Simply, enabling creates a atmosphere in which the alcoholic can comfortably continue his unacceptable behavior.

Excerpt from about.com (alcoholism)

[Lilyflower]

Some things i have done with my abf concerning the housework (my personal boundaries)...

He is more than capable of putting on the washing and has done in the past so if I find he hasn't been helping out, I don't wash his things, just my daughter's and mine. When he moans he has nothing clean I hand him the bin bag full and point out the washing machine.

I tidy up around the living room and kitchen etc because it is a family space, again though, if I find he has been leaving his stuff everywhere for me to pick up, I bag them up and throw it somewhere for him to deal with it. If he needs something it's probably in there and he'll have to sort through it. Etc etc etc.

It is very hard at first because the general mess of a few bags of stuff is irritating and I felt the urge to do it myself to just get it done, but if you stick to your guns he'll get the message. I think its good for all women to do this (A's involved or not) as fellas tend to think we should do all the domestic stuff!

If my abf has been drunk, I let it go. I don't argue with him at the time and I don't bring it up the next day either. What I think your friend doesn't understand is that it isn't about making him aware of his slip or letting him 'get away with it'. He is suffering himself either by guilt knowing he slipped up or by damaging his own body. By getting upset or holding a grugde with him all I am doing is hurting myself. Its all about how I react to the things that happen.

Hope that helps!

Lily xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Growing]

enabling creates a atmosphere in which the alcoholic can comfortably continue his unacceptable behavior. It is interesting that this site considers an alcoholics behavior "unacceptable".

Some interesting questions from about.com, sort of "you know your an enabler when":

"Have you accepted part of the blame for his (or her) drinking or behavior?

Have you avoided talking about his drinking out of fear of his response?

Have you tried drinking with him in hopes of strengthening the relationship?

Have you given him "one more chance" and then another and another?

Have you threatened to leave and didn't?"

Enabling can be more subtle than we think and has alot to do with our own boundaries and consequences or lack thereof.

I highly recommend reading the rest of this excerpt on enabling here:

Enabling - Enabling and Alcoholism in the Family

[LaTeeDa]

Originally Posted by Growing

enabling creates a atmosphere in which the alcoholic can comfortably continue his unacceptable behavior. It is interesting that this site considers an alcoholics behavior "unacceptable".

My take on this is different. To me it means that if the alcoholic's behavior is unacceptable to you and you allow it to continue, then you are enabling.

I have seen some threads on SR in the past asking "how do you stay with your A if you aren't ready or willing to leave?" The answers, from people who have stayed, are invariably the same--You accept them exactly as they are with no expectations that they will change. Acceptable/unacceptable is very subjective.

L

[Lilyflower]

That link is great! All that information used to be here as a sticky before the recent crash. It should definately be kept around for its value. I learnt so much from that sticky and I think it answers so many questions about enabling.

Thanks for putting that up Growing!

Lily xxxxxxxxxxx

[Growing]

LTD, thank you...I think you are right. I am struggling to understand this. Thank you for the clarification.

[Growing]

"I have seen some threads on SR in the past asking "how do you stay with your A if you aren't ready or willing to leave?"---I think I am that person. LOL

-if the alcoholic's behavior is unacceptable to you and you allow it to continue, then you are enabling." --LTD

I get confused when people outline how unacceptable their A's behavior is. I just pray they will be given the strength to make choices for themselves.

Thank you for helping me understand, or more appropriately, accept this.

[karmakoma]

I admit that I am hard line on this issue. I do think that staying when there is repeated "unacceptable" behavior gives the message that it is, in fact, acceptable. And you know what? That message is correct, because by staying in the relationship, one is accepting that it is OK as it is. The payoffs are greater than the downside - as Dr Phil says, we do what works, however unhealthy that may be.

Is it enabling? In a subtle way, I think yes. Because a large part of enabling, for me, is about smoothing the ground and making the unacceptable acceptable. So much about enabling is subtle - buying drink is so obviously enabling, taking the kids out on a Saturday morning to get away from the hangover is so much more subtle.

It seems to me that the consequences of your husbands behaviour are being felt by the family, rather than by him? Considering that a lot of alcoholics drink so that they can be emotional detached, how is your being so hurting anyone but you?

I prefer to look at situations in terms of the consequences for ME (and those in my care). Once I got away from thinking "What can I do (or not do) to get him to realise what he is doing?" and though more about what I wanted for my life, the picture became much clearer.

[peaceteach]

I like karmakoma's statement about the consequences for ME (and those in my care). Quite honestly, when I did separate and ultimately divorce from my AH, life didn't change much at all regarding chores, paying bills, taking care of children and maintaining a household. I had been doing it all anyway. The only difference was the calm and serenity of doing it in my own house without a drunk stumbling in and out the door.

[anamchara]

Thanks much for the responses and links. I've read Boundaries too, just looking through it again tonight. I feel like I've come full circle in a way- I've been the rescuer, the provoker and the martyr...(oooo, that's a horrid one!). But I can honestly say at this point that I no longer act in an attempt to get him to behave a certain way. I quit nagging, preaching, begging, and ridiculing a while back, thank the good Lord. I take care of myself, my feelings... I choose now to respond in a way that will be beneficial to our kids. To me that means educating them, and yet, sometimes I think they should never be exposed to him at all when he's drunk (not that he is abusive, just silly...embarrassing...) Even if I were to leave, he will always be their father.

My decisions are based on the well-being of my kids at this point, and sometimes my vision is clouded. The large majority of the time, dh is a very good dad: calm enforcer of the household rules, taxi & supporter of their sport activities, he cooks he cleans...he does a lot of good things in our marriage aside from being the breadwinner.

It's just, sometimes, you know, it's like living with a ticking bomb-- you never know when the next drunk night will be. Could be tomorrow, could be a few months down the road.

Anyway, I'm just rambling now, thanks for your ear =-)

[DesertEyes]

Originally Posted by Lilyflower

... All that information used to be here as a sticky before the recent crash. It should definately be kept around for its value. ...

Done stickied, under "About Recovery"

Mike

[BohemiMamaof3]

Originally Posted by anamchara

Thanks much for the responses and links. I've read Boundaries too, just looking through it again tonight. I feel like I've come full circle in a way- I've been the rescuer, the provoker and the martyr...(oooo, that's a horrid one!). But I can honestly say at this point that I no longer act in an attempt to get him to behave a certain way. I quit nagging, preaching, begging, and ridiculing a while back, thank the good Lord. I take care of myself, my feelings... I choose now to respond in a way that will be beneficial to our kids. To me that means educating them, and yet, sometimes I think they should never be exposed to him at all when he's drunk (not that he is abusive, just silly...embarrassing...) Even if I were to leave, he will always be their father.

My decisions are based on the well-being of my kids at this point, and sometimes my vision is clouded. The large majority of the time, dh is a very good dad: calm enforcer of the household rules, taxi & supporter of their sport activities, he cooks he cleans...he does a lot of good things in our marriage aside from being the breadwinner.

It's just, sometimes, you know, it's like living with a ticking bomb-- you never know when the next drunk night will be. Could be tomorrow, could be a few months down the road.

Anyway, I'm just rambling now, thanks for your ear =-)

It’s so hard to comment on this because it’s so familiar. My Mom was that kind of an A. In every other respect we had a great family experience. It was the occasional binges, that were heartbreaking, painful and disruptive. In retrospect, I think it would have been worse if my parents had separated. I only say that because my Mom’s alcoholism did not escalate while I was living at home, she was not dangerous, she was not abusive, nor did it effect our finances. But yes, I have to note that her drinking did negatively influence us, but then, remember, we did not have any type of counseling or recovery tools, that would have made a difference, we didn‘t even have the full acknowledgement from anyone that she even had a problem. I look at it this way, no family is perfect. My thinking would be much different if her problem were severe and abusive & negligent toward others. Again this is just my own opinion and experience.

[cagefree]

what a great thread!

For me I found plenty of things acceptable that really were not and "owned" a lot of responsibilities that were not mine - which was at the heart of why I enabled and why I could not see the difference betwen enabling and detaching.

I guess I define enabling in my life if I do something for someone else that I'm not responsible for. I am not responsible for someone else's happiness, feelings, whether or not they go out with friends or stay at home, nor responsible for someone else's bills. The only thing I am responsible for is myself, my feelings, my happiness, the type of environment I place myself and the expectations I hold to others. By being responsible for him, he was not experiencing the full repercussions of his actions, thus I was enabling him.

After kicking XABF out of the house, I became his friend again when he started going to AA, got a counselor and a sponsor...it took awhile for me to realize that this simple act of friendship was enabling him. By being his friend without seeing consistent actions over a decent timespan (i.e. months) that he was in recovery to back up his promises to change, he avoided repercussions of his bad behaviour - I was giving him my trust and friendship before he did the work to earn it - that's how I perceive enabling.

[wifewithhope]

These threads have been really helpful and made me realize some of my behaviors are still contributing and that I need to go to an Al-Anon meeting. My AH has been going to meetings off & on for a couple of yrs, and attempting to stay sober. I'm hesitant to seek other outside help b/c we initially went to secular counseling and the woman basically told me to leave him the next time he drank. I'm a Christian and I don't think divorce is the answer, at least not for me right now. So I've been scared to talk to anyone about the issue because I feel like there aren't any outlets or help for people who don't want to leave. It's like, if you're stupid enough to stay with an alcoholic, then you get what you deserve. AH doesn't drink all the time - occasional binges. We both recognize that this is a prob and have tried dealing with it. I know that I've ignorantly enabled in many ways and want to work on correcting this. I have a lot of anger right now and much of it is due to my expectation that he will keep his promises. Thanks to someone's thread post that helped me see that you can't hold alcoholics to 'normal' standards, at least not about alcohol.

[Lilyflower]

Hi there Wifewithhope, I'm glad that your finding useful information here. Have you read the 'stickies' at the top of the forums?-Lots of great stuff there too.

Originally Posted by wifewithhope

...I'm hesitant to seek other outside help b/c we initially went to secular counseling and the woman basically told me to leave him the next time he drank. I'm a Christian and I don't think divorce is the answer, at least not for me right now. So I've been scared to talk to anyone about the issue because I feel like there aren't any outlets or help for people who don't want to leave. It's like, if you're stupid enough to stay with an alcoholic, then you get what you deserve...

I hope you keep posting here with us. Here i found lots of support and encouragement to delve into questions I was too afraid to ask myself, to question behaviour I had accepted for a long time, and to begin to put my happiness back on the top of my priority list. No one here has ever told me I should leave, I never felt as though people here thought I was 'stupid' for staying.

Everyone here wants everyone else to be happy in their life, irrespective of whether they stay or go. If you and your partner find away to be happy and healthy and heal from this addiction that will be wonderful. It's what many of us wanted from our relationships too, but were unable to find. Sometimes it can be painful to hear what others have to say, it was for me at first, but I always tried to remember that folks here KNOW what it is like and can shed light on issues we cannot, 'cannot see the woods for the trees' analogy. We all share the knowledge of how difficult life is living with this disease.

Hoping you stick with us and post often,

Love and blessings
Lily xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Barbara52]

I came to realize that my merely being with my AH was enabling since I was the only contributin gto the house financially, the only taking care of the day-to-day hosue stuff, the only one taking care of everything. AH was perfectly comfortable being unemployed and drunk. My mere presence was enabling him.

Of course since I left, he has found someone else to provide the money he needs, his mother. So nothing has changed for him yet. But at least I am no longer the one enabling him to sink further into his alcoholism and victimhood.