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Old 01-17-2008, 08:06 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Alcoholic Manipulation - I fell for it again!

As you all know, my AH is court mandated to an outpatient alcohol treatment program 4 nights a week/3 hours a night. He has been going and passing all his random tests. But I know he has been drinking under the radar on weekends. No regular person can tell, but I can. It is then that he brings up the court thing, and you can just see and hear in his tone the resentment he has towards me. He also hurt himself very badly last weekend, and when he's had a couple, he makes light of it and jokes about it.
He comes home from his sessions telling me what they learned, what the topic was, etc., I just listen and say "oh, OK", blah blah blah, don't really care, what's the sense if he's drinking on weekends, right?
Anyway, he has a lawyer for our court date on the first, so he's planning on getting the whole thing dropped (which may very well happen, since it's not against the law to be an alcoholic and it is against his rights to force treatment).
So the other night he tells me he tells his counselor he knows what he's got to do to be sober, but he's not "there yet". I said "what do you mean?" He said he's not ready yet, he's 75% ready. I said well you only got 2 more weeks of treatment (cause that's when he'll get it dropped), what's going to change. He said he wanted to still go twice a week. I said "why bother if you're still going to drink." Well, then the attitude starts - him saying "why am I doing all this then, if you think I'm not serious?" DUH - YOU'RE DOING IT CAUSE YOUR COURT ORDERED (IDIOT). Then he says "if I wasn't serious, I wouldn't want to do it twice a week." I said "No, if you were serious, you'd do what it takes to want to be sober and stay sober."
This morning he says I never want to do anything w/him anymore, like go to our place upstate, etc. Yeah, I don't want to cause he'll be drinking the whole time and sneaking it. He says "don't you think I want a normal life?" I said "truth be told, no, and I don't think we'll ever have a normal life, your alcoholism has caused all sorts of problems. You think if you stop (or say you've stopped) all our problems will go away. The problem is not that you drink, it's how you've acted all along while you're drinking. And if you ever did stop, how would life ever be normal with the threat of relapse, etc." (He's plainly said that AA and therapy tells him "one day at a time" which he miscontrues for his own benefit to mean "if I drink tomorrow, it's OK as long as I stop once in a while", not it's original meaning which I construe as "I won't drink today, can't guarantee I won't drink tomorrow, but will do my very best not to cause I truly want sobriety." Of course, it's me, he's trying and nothing is ever good enough for me. Why is he doing all this, etc., all he hears from me is calling him an alcoholic 20 times in the morning (which, yes I did the other day cause I told him I knew he drank on Sunday and he said he can control it, that's the way he's planning on doing it, he just "never wanted to control it" before, etc.) I said "you admit your an alcoholic and you know alcoholics can't control it" and "that's alcoholic thinking, it's the disease tricking you into thinking you can control it" Now he calls me at work, says he's sorry for getting upset this morning but he's sick of me calling him an alcoholic 20 times, how would I like it if he kept bringing up my smoking. I said I had to go and he told me "have a nice day".
The bad part of this is now after he goes to therapy tonite, he doesn't have to go back till Monday. I'm so p***ed off that I fell into it, fell into that trap he was setting, again. Set it up all week so I am the blame for the drinking this weekend.
When will I ever learn??????
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
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When will I ever learn??????
I heard someone say in a meeting recently that denial is a shock absorber for the soul. We only get to see what we are able to process at the time. Your AH may have some denial issues going on, but so don't we all, especially those of us in long term relationship[s with A's. Many times we have used denial positively, as in choosing compassion rather than severance and harshness.

In a round about way, what I'm saying is that you will get what you are ready to get, not more. You are getting clearer daily. Today, for whatever reasons, you feel like you got manipulated by him and you are mad at yourself for allowing that to happen. Thats a step along your way to another perspective. N ext time you will be able to carry this awareness forth and catch the bs before you get swept along with it.

Dont be hard on yourself. Keep your eyes and inner ears open. Have a good day!
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:22 AM   #3 (permalink)
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AH, Queenteree, we have our relapses too. Forgive yourself and go right back to doing what you have to do. {hugs}
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I said "why bother if you're still going to drink." Well, then the attitude starts - him saying "why am I doing all this then, if you think I'm not serious?" DUH - YOU'RE DOING IT CAUSE YOUR COURT ORDERED (IDIOT). Then he says "if I wasn't serious, I wouldn't want to do it twice a week." I said "No, if you were serious, you'd do what it takes to want to be sober and stay sober."
IMHO, you are still trying to control him. And he is resisting. This went on in my marriage for years. It's a power struggle. Until you are done trying to control him and stop engaging in these power plays, it will continue.

L
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:27 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I had to hit my head into the ass of an elephant as many times as it took to discover...

"Elephants have hard assess".

So then I stopped.


You going to al-anon?
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:33 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I had to hit my head into the ass of an elephant as many times as it took to discover...

"Elephants have hard assess".

So then I stopped.

:rof Thank you for that imagery! Its wonderful!
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Miss Pink - yes I do go to Alanon a few times a week, and I've been doing really well. That's why I guess I'm just angry w/myself that I fell for it. Great analogy about the elephant! Gotta remember that. I guess I just was actually getting sick of hearing him "think" he's playing the game, when we all know he's not. I don't know, bad day I guess, but my weekend will be worse.
But I hope to be out of there by the first, gone w/only a PO address so his lawyer can reach me for the divorce. I thought about it the other day - funny how things come to you.
My best friend is struggling and under such stress to keep her house (widowed, 2 kids) financially. She refuses to give it up, would rather live under real stress and struggle. I flat out tell her if that was me I would never struggle to keep a house, I would sell it and move to where I could live comfortably. Duh (lighbulb goes on in my head) what have I been doing???? I may not be struggling financially to keep my house, but refusing to leave my house, get an apartment and live comfortably is the same thing just different set of circumstances. I really truly gotta get out, can't do it anymore. Cause now I gotta think of how the next 4 days are going to be.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:56 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Imho

A clean & sober person can not communicate with a useing person on the subject of sobriety. we have no idea of their thoughts, and they have no idea of our thoughts. Marsians vs Venusians.
we can understand (the garbage needs to be taken out,) or (that was a good movie,). We travel the same path in life, on differant vehicles,
A BIKER and a BICYKLIST Both on two wheels, at differant speeds.
A user is deffinatly running on a differant fuel. the only way a alkie slows down is to crash.
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Old 01-17-2008, 09:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I fell into the trap of blaming the alcoholic for everything, too. He may have attitude, but I'd examine my attitude, also: "why bother if you're still going to drink."

Everything gets skewed living with active alcoholism. Good luck with everything, QT. ((()))
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:17 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Queen a lot of good stuff stated already!

Pick yourself up and dust yourself off-for good this time if you are ready...

It stops when we stop! IMHO I see a lot of controlling still going on as well-

As long as we engage it will always continue with anything in our lives-if we dis-engage and take care of our own inventory and well being this is when life becomes easier....

Take care of you! I have found that wasting energy on others that refuse to do things for themselves is a waste of my precious time-if they want to help themselves and are serious about I will lend a supporting hand or ear! But until then......it is all about ME!

Queen
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I am ready - for good. Really I am. I already just printed out garden apt. listings for the county over from mine (cheaper), I hope I can make appointments to look at them over the weekend, I am going to call our car dealership (I drive a car leased in AH's name) and see what I can do to get one in my name (and cheaper, don't want the big payments) and let AH turn this one in. Problem is, I already know, deep down and in my gut, not to tell him that I plan on moving out, not to even tell him when I sign the lease or on the moving day. It would only create more chaos and havoc, so it would be best to just leave. But I wouldn't know how to handle the loose ends, but I guess it will come to me.
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:37 AM   #12 (permalink)
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queentree - we all fall sometimes - I did a few weeks ago.. and I was so mad at myself cause i knew as you did - he was setting me up.

You did it - do not beat yourself up .. just keep moving ahead

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Old 01-17-2008, 11:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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"I have found that wasting energy on others that refuse to do things for themselves is a waste of my precious time-if they want to help themselves and are serious about I will lend a supporting hand or ear!" I love this statement.

Queen ... I'm sorry things aren't going the way you'd thought they would. I, too, had a hard time accepting the fact that R was never going to be MADE sober, he'd one day have to find that out for himself. I know, my skull is thick too. To understand the A, I have to walk a mile in his/her shoes, and in my case, that's with my food abuse. When R said to me "I want you to lose weight", gimme a break, I KNOW that, I'd LIKE to be thinner, but I'm NEVER going to lose weight until I'm good and ready. And I play mind games like an alcoholic too. "Today I'll have a little bit more, and tomorrow I'll have less. Hey, I don't look bad in a mirror!" Well guess what. I have a big butt and a spare tire around the middle. But until I knuckle down and say "I am NOT going to ABUSE FOOD for ME" it ain't happenin.

So that's why I know now that I and the others could have forced him to go to court-ordered rehab but he would have rebelled BIGTIME when he got out. Or fudged like your husband. Maybe it will be you moving out that wakes him up. I don't know. But I hate to see you allow yourself to be wrung out by him all the time.

(((hugs)))
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Take care of you! I have found that wasting energy on others that refuse to do things for themselves is a waste of my precious time-if they want to help themselves and are serious about I will lend a supporting hand or ear! But until then......it is all about ME!

listen to rella and the others queenteree.

he is manipulating you! dont feel bad about falling for it
most of us are fine masters in the art of deception and manipulation. if only we could put that type of effort into sorting out our addiction.

seems to me that he is not committed at all to recovery.

i hope you dont mind me jumping in, im just giving you an alcoholics perspective on it. (not drinking today, dont intend to tomorrow either)

bless

kate :ghug3
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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He said he wanted to still go twice a week. I said "why bother if you're still going to drink." Well, then the attitude starts - him saying "why am I doing all this then, if you think I'm not serious?" DUH - YOU'RE DOING IT CAUSE YOUR COURT ORDERED (IDIOT). Then he says "if I wasn't serious, I wouldn't want to do it twice a week." I said "No, if you were serious, you'd do what it takes to want to be sober and stay sober."
I, actually, see this as a positive thing. If he thinks he wants to continue twice a week, then something he's hearing in those rooms must be getting through. Those two meetings a week could turn into seven. You want a 100% commitment, but he's not willing to do that yet. His recovery has to be at his pace, not yours (and I know you already know this). Keep working to keep your focus on you.
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Old 01-17-2008, 05:21 PM   #16 (permalink)
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QT, don't feel alone. I kicked exAh out 1.5 years ago and despite all my strength and all my progress, at times I'm still a spastic, twitching codie. I have been feeling guilty cause six-figure making exAH has gotten himself into so much debt that he's totally screwed. It's hard for us to stay off the codie sauce, but at least we can recognize our insanity and try to get back on the wagon again.

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Old 01-17-2008, 08:15 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I kicked exAh out 1.5 years ago and despite all my strength and all my progress, at times I'm still a spastic, twitching codie. It's hard for us to stay off the codie sauce, but at least we can recognize our insanity and try to get back on the wagon again.
Ain't THAT the truth!!!

Thank you queentree I really needed this thread today. I've been slipping into my codie behavior recently with my xabf and it helps to much to know that i'm not alone. It also takes some of the pressure off to know that even those in this forum whom i've secretly looked up to slip and fall....flat on their a**es and post their experience here. I need to get back to my al-anon meetings.

Much love to you queentree. The loose ends will fall into place. Its like we have to do this not only for ourselves but for the alcoholic/addict also because we only act as a cushion between them and their bottom. Of course they come calling back (or seek out others). Addiction does not "work" if there is no scapegoat. Its a formula I guess. It hurts so much b/c all I really want right now is exactly what's not good for me....my xabf. That's why I have to write down the horrid details of his actions as a reference for when he calls back. So I stay out of the way while keeping my sanity and getting better.

Sorry, i sort of rambled with that one.
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Old 01-18-2008, 07:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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((((Teree))))

They really do know how to push our buttons to get us to engage! Mine still tries. Sometimes I fall for it, sometimes I don't! I remind myself I am work in progress.

Just wanted to throw this out there for ya. Not sure if you remember, but I had to leave before I was ready. But things were so bad, that I had to go early. There was lots of stuff to be worked out after. But, it was easier than I thought because I had peacefulness at night and on weekends not living in the same house. Things looked clearer and I was able to sort things out so much better. While it is easier said than done, try not to worry about the details...just take care of you, get to a peaceful place and the rest will work out later.

Hugs to you....
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