Emotional Age

[KarenMarie1]

So I have learned that when an alcoholic starts drinking that is where their emotional development stops. If someone started drinking at the age of 16 and has been sober for 4 1/2 years (he is 42) what age would his emotional development be at? I know it isn't an exact figure, but can someone give me a ballpark idea?
Everybody here has been so helpful and I am so glad I found this forum!

[ICU]

Welcome to SR KarenMarie1:

Good question!

I've heard the same thing. Not sure how how to factor in a spell of sobriety though. Would be interested in hearing some factually based information that anyone might have.

[hbb]

Hi there i asked the same question and my Al Anon sponsor told me that when they quit, they revert back to the age they started drinking. My ex started drinking at 17 and he just stopped at 33.....and believe me when i tell you i'm dealing with a 17 year old....hope this helps.

[Rella927]

Welcome to SR KarenMarie!

I have heard about that but do not have an answer for you.Great question though I'am sure others will be along that can help!

[mike_mass]

My experience has been that I stopped maturing in certain ways (emotionally, socially) when I started using.

[splendra]

it sounds like emotionally he is 20 1/2 years old

[GlassPrisoner]

My sponsor doesn't "buy in" to this theory. And nothing that I know of supports it in The Big Book either.

It's true though that we are childish, and often ill equipped to live life on lifes terms.

[jillybean]

Hi KarenMarie!

I have heard the same thing from my counselor. My opinion is that what takes place is that when they start using, they stop developing coping skills needed in life. They numb the "bad" emotions and replace them with the high of their drug of choice. That way, life is a big adventure without any grown-up problems.

Abf started drinking before he was a teen He didn't drink daily until he was in his mid to late teens. He drank around 33 years give or take. I would have to say that his emotional age stayed consistent regardless of alcohol. He was/is still immature and ill equiped to live a mature sober life. He refuses to work a program and sits on his laurels of being dry and refuses to look at his "drunken" mindset.

It's true though that we are childish, and often ill equipped to live life on lifes terms.

Very true Glass and I can tell you that that is the person I know abf to be. Abf throws tamtrums when he has to be a big boy and preferres to live life as if it only was a day at the amusement park like a giddy child.

My counselor also said that once the deveopement is lost, it can't be found. I tend to think she is right because no matter how much trouble his way of doing things causes him, he refuses to look at himself and make any adjustments other than to find a way around responsible action. He reminds me of many teens who act the same way when they are afraid of being grounded by a parent if they get caught breaking the rules.

[Astro]

It's just a theory, there's no "factually based information" to support it.

Personally, it's my way of saying and understanding that when it comes to certain circumstances in life (relationships are a great example for me) I have the emotional capabilities of a teenager. Kinda pathetic for a 43 year old to deal with issues using a high school locker room mentality;-) *Sigh* Progress, not perfection.

[ICU]

Originally Posted by jillybean

My counselor also said that once the deveopement is lost, it can't be found.

Hmmm....'unproffesionally' speaking, I would have to 'wonder' if that's really true. I could see that possibly being true if there were irreversable brain damage perhaps and the drinking continued. Short of that, I just don't know. Again, I'm not qualified to say yes or no either way....just kind of pondering outloud. It's an interesting topic of discussion for sure.

[jillybean]

I found this article on this site. It may help with some answers.

http://www.robertperkinson.com/teen-alcoholism.htm

THE CHEMICALLY DEPENDENT ADOLESCENT

The tumultuous group of adolescents consists of twenty percent of the population. These adolescents come from family backgrounds that are not stable. There is often a history of mental illness in the family; the parents have marital conflicts; and the families have more economic difficulties. The moods of these adolescents are not stable and they are more prone to depression. They have significantly more psychiatric disturbances, and they only do well with the aid of intense psychotherapy. They do not grow out of it. (Masterson 1980; Offer 1986). These figures parallel the percentage of mental illness found in adult populations (Freedman 1984). It is in the tumultuous growth group that chemical dependency often develops.

In this country the average first use of mood altering chemicals for boys is 11.9 years; for girls, 12.7 years (U.S. Department of Justice 1983). Adolescents almost always use alcohol or drugs the first time under peer pressure. They want to be accepted and be a part of the group. Children are likely to model after the chemical use of their parents. Children with alcoholic parents are at greater risk of becoming chemically dependent (Spalt 1979).

The adolescent who continues to use will increase drinking to a regular pattern (usually weekends). They may experiment with other drugs. They begin to use drugs to communicate, to relate, to belong. With regular drinking, tolerance develops. The adolescent needs more of the drug to get intoxicated. The family may first notice emotional changes here. The adolescent may become irritable and more non-communicative. They may begin to spend more time in their room. They may begin not caring for themselves or others. Polarization of parents and children begins to occur. (Morrison and Smith 1990).

As chemical dependency further develops the adolescents can no longer trust themselves when using chemicals. The choice to use the drug is no longer available to them; they have to use to feel normal. The continued use of chemicals eliminates the ability to think logically and rationally. Rationalization, minimization, and denial cut the adolescent off from reality (Soujanen 1983).

Chemically dependent adolescents gradually change their peer group to include drinking and drug using friends. They begin to use chemicals to block out the pain. They longer use for the euphoric effect. They drink to escape pain. Blackouts and drinking alone are strong indicators of chemical dependency in the adolescent population. With the progression of the disease, family conflicts increase. The adolescent may run away, withdraw, or act out at home and at school. They withdraw from family and community activities. Problems with the police and school officials increase and become serious. The adolescent may become verbally abusive to parents and more rebellious to authority figures. Life begins to center around alcohol or drugs. Daily use begins and the patient begins to use to maintain rather than to escape. The adolescent makes attempts to cut back or quit but they are unable to stay clean and sober. Physical deterioration begins. Hiding and lying about drugs becomes more common. The adolescent feels more intensely isolated and alone. Parents, teachers, and even peers now openly express concern. Gradually the adolescent loses all self-esteem and depression begins. Persistent chemical use leads to incarceration, institutionalization, or death (Morrison and Smith 1990; Chatlos and Jaffe 1994).

Chemical dependency halts emotional development. To develop normally, a person must learn to use their feelings to give them energy and direction for problem solving. When alcohol or drugs consistently alter feelings, this is no longer possible. The major coping skill of the chemically dependent person is chemical use.

Adolescent chemical dependency can occur extremely quickly, within weeks, because the child's emotional development is immature. Adolescents don't have the internal structure to bring themselves and their lives under control. They cannot delay the onset of chemical dependency for years like adults can.

[jillybean]

ICU,

I was relating what I was told to me by my conselor. I think she wanted me to be realistic in my hopes given that we were talking about his disease and my wants for outcomes.

I feel that like anything else, first a problem has to be seen, then owned and then worked on and only then can true and healthy change happen.

[GlassPrisoner]

stop developing coping skills needed in life.

Now, THIS is very accurate, IMO. Actually, the coping skills were never learned.

Abf throws tantrums

Yup, childish. Before recovery (and still to some extent), I really didn't like it when I didn't get my way. Didn't.Like.It.At.All......If a tantrum didn't work, I'd revert to my favorite , well learned, form of behavior. Manipulate, scheme and connive behind the scenes (God forbid I confront you directly), or withdraw completely.

when it comes to certain circumstances in life (relationships are a great example for me) I have the emotional capabilities of a teenager

*sigh* me too. I had a friggin’ meltdown two weeks ago over a woman who had no idea how I "felt" towards her. I literally felt as if I was in High School.

[KarenMarie1]

I am sure even though he is sober, he still has years of learned behaviors and reactions from when he was actively drinking. He definitely withdraws off and on. Sometimes his mood swings can be worse than my worst hormonal hell day! LOL! It is good to hear everybody's responses and experiences. That way I know I am not TOTALLY off of my rocker on some of my perspectives!

[parentrecovers]

my daughter is 23 and very immature in her decisions and relationships. blessings, k

[Rella927]

Originally Posted by GlassPrisoner

Now, THIS is very accurate, IMO. Actually, the coping skills were never learned.



Yup, childish. Before recovery (and still to some extent), I really didn't like it when I didn't get my way. Didn't.Like.It.At.All......If a tantrum didn't work, I'd revert to my favorite , well learned, form of behavior. Manipulate, scheme and connive behind the scenes (God forbid I confront you directly), or withdraw completely.



*sigh* me too. I had a friggin’ meltdown two weeks ago over a woman who had no idea how I "felt" towards her. I literally felt as if I was in High School.

Do not mean to steal the thread (only for a sec)

I just love when our A's chime in.....it gives me such a good feeling to know that I was not crazy! (well maybe a tiny bit but not 100% LOL)

Thank you Glass, Astro, Mike and all the rest you guys are truly amazing!!

[jillybean]

I really didn't like it when I didn't get my way. Didn't.Like.It.At.All......If a tantrum didn't work, I'd revert to my favorite , well learned, form of behavior. Manipulate, scheme and connive behind the scenes (God forbid I confront you directly), or withdraw completely.

Glass I admire your honesty.

This is to a T, especially the behind the scenes part, a description of my experiences with abf.

Thank you for helping work on me by validating what I experience. Makes me feel less alone.

[Pick-a-name]

Originally Posted by Rella927

Do not mean to steal the thread (only for a sec)

I just love when our A's chime in.....it gives me such a good feeling to know that I was not crazy! (well maybe a tiny bit but not 100% LOL)

Thank you Glass, Astro, Mike and all the rest you guys are truly amazing!!

Me,too! Thanks! It helps a LOT!

[Satchel]

I concur with the other A's that have chimed in. Stunted emotionally! I can pout, throw tantrums, and be completely erratic in my ability to deal with my emotions.

IMHO - Growth during recovery for me depends on the depth of my total program. Not just meetings, but spirtual work, personal time, sober social activities. As we say I must complete the triangle (A stool cannot stand on just two legs).

I can still revert back to my old behaviors, and it is only when I give myself to my HP and work with another that I can get out of my self.

Bless you all for your care and compassion.

[ARealLady]

"Before recovery (and still to some extent), I really didn't like it when I didn't get my way. Didn't.Like.It.At.All......If a tantrum didn't work, I'd revert to my favorite , well learned, form of behavior. Manipulate, scheme and connive behind the scenes (God forbid I confront you directly), "

Thanks for that, GP. It sheds some light on XABF's threats to blackmail me when I broke off with him. I couldn't believe a friend would treat a friend in such a way. I thought we were both adults.

ARL

[elizabeth1979]

My idiot of an ex..well, idiot doesnt even begin to explain the feelings I have for him...started drinking at 16 and acts more like a 12 year old. He is 30.
Good thing Im not his surrogate mommy anymore!

[guineapigjude]

I have to echo the sentiments that I really appreciate the input from our A's. I often think I'd love to know what's going on inside XAH's head, and when I hear what you guys have to say, I think I understand a little bit better.
My XAH started drinking at age 13. By 15 he was drinking as often as possible and smoking pot daily. Between that, and his totally dysfunctional family, he didn't develop any normal social or coping skills. When we were married, I used to get frustrated at his lack of self control and his immature reponses to any sort of stressfull, crisis situation. Unfortunately, I reacted badly to his bad reactions. Now I realize he wasn't capable of any sort of mature response to those situations, because he had never had the opportunity to grow emotionally/socially in a normal manner. I also realize that, despite my bad reactions, I didn't cause his behavior, and I didn't take it with me when we split up. I really do feel awful for him ~ I can't imagine being nearly 50 and functioning emotionally as a thirteen year old.

[raerae6]

I have heard this theory before. it was a friend who used to be addicted to heroin and coke who told me this..he thinks it is true.

I thought about it and I think there is something to it. i started drinking and using drugs when i was 16 and sometimes I think that I still have some of the personality traits of a person that age...I have to really struggle to be responsible even though i am now in my 40s.