I hear you on the temporary closing...

[liveweyerd]

but I think it is a bad call.

[equus]

Still glad we got an explaination though!! And I'm pleased it will be back up and running.

People disagree on all the forums but I've never seen them closed because of that. I guess the secular bit is new and will be nmore vulnerable.

I don't tvisit the christian forum or the spirituality one - do people ever disgaree there? Does it put those forums future at risk if they do?

I know there's some spats on F&F and that's never been seen as the forum's fault - ie it going wrong BECAUSE F&F exists.

[Morning Glory]

The forum was not closed because of disagreements.

It will re-open when we solve some problems.

[paulmh]

It needs to change it's name. It's not a "Secular Recovery" forum and I'm offended that both those words are misused in this context. It's a forum for people who don't like 12 Step programmes and it should be named as such.

[historyteach]

It is NOT an anti AA forum.
Read the introduction, please. It was never meant that way, and it won't become that way as long as I'm there.
And I honestly don't think it's wise to continue here.

Shalom!

[equus]

It needs to change it's name. It's not a "Secular Recovery" forum and I'm offended that both those words are misused in this context.

Paul, I needed to recover, from anxiety, from worry, from choices I think are too hard to ever be made without some damage. I did so by reason, by support that came from people for who reasoning matters as much as belief. In some places on that path it helped me to know I wasn't the only one that could not reconcile my own reasoning with 'The Twelve Steps'. I didn't need anger to let me know that was the case, I didn't need contempt or insult, but to know I wasn't alone I needed to hear that there were other views.

The times I can think of where people have discussed and been welcoming of those who choose 12 stepping, outweigh in number and sentiment the few times when it has been asked whether the 12 steps can be truly secular.

It is possible to agree to differ and I believe that to learn there has to be times of being wrong (well there will always be times of being wrong but to learn you have to see it!).

I think this is central - the difference between 'You are wrong' or 'I am wrong' tto 'Your idea/belief is wrong' or 'My idea/belief is wrong'.

I should think if we could step backwards 10000 years we would discover many clever people believed the world was flat - it isn't about us, not everything is about us.

[equus]

And I honestly don't think it's wise to continue here.

Perhaps wisdom is the choice to heed more reasoned views over statements which have little substance (not refering to the above!!). I think many problems are caused by accusation without reasoning, consideration, chances to reply and basic good manners.

[historyteach]

Wisdom is many things....
And I'm done here. This is not a forum for discussion, but, a forum for trouble shooting.
The other one was closed for a reason. It doesn't help to continue it here.

Shalom!

[equus]

This is not a forum for discussion, but, a forum for trouble shooting.

It does include ideas and suggestion though and I can't see anything here which has been insulting/bashing/etc.