SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information - Spirituality http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/ Share your concepts of spirituality and help advance tolerance, understanding, cooperation and compassion. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:34:10 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/images/misc/rss.jpg SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information - Spirituality http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/ <![CDATA[Need advice regarding BF's religious family...]]> http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188901-need-advice-regarding-bfs-religious-family.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:02:12 GMT Well neither my BF or me are Catholic. But his family and grandmother are. We are thinking about going to that town, for me to meet his grandmother. But when he goes, she sends him to Sunday... Well neither my BF or me are Catholic. But his family and grandmother are.

We are thinking about going to that town, for me to meet his grandmother. But when he goes, she sends him to Sunday mass. She makes all her family pray. If I go she and his family will be offended if I don't want to participate. He does all that just to make her grandmother happy. LoL.

The problem is that in his state, religion and society are closely embedded. They are from a small town. Not open minded at all. I do not think they even know there are other religions or views.

I told my bf that I want to be honest with everyone. I told him I am not afraid of saying I do not share their religion. I am open to talk about God. After all I am a believer. But I am almost 30. Why would someone impose a religious activity in me? I tolerate anyone as long as they are respectful and I expect the same. He kind of agrees with me, and I COULD do whatever, but if they know I am not Catholic they will say I am not religious and on top of that, I am a lier. UGH.

What would you do? So far this is what I got: NEVER going to that town!! AND NEVER meeting his family. LoL. ]]> Spirituality TakingCharge999 http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188901-need-advice-regarding-bfs-religious-family.html It Just Keeps On GIVEING... http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188874-just-keeps-giveing.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 13:51:39 GMT It never fails, each day when I open my eyes to a new day, I can't help but to wonder what I'm going to do to surprise myself, and like clockwork, before the day is over and I'm sitting on the edge of my bed laughing.Well yesterday was no exception to the rule,I've been ddoing a lot of babysitting for my grand kids lately ages 11/2 and 6. (2 of the BEST things to enter my life), well Ivana (6) and I were in this conversation.I know kids today are 6 going on 25. Anyway some how we got talking about Christmas and I asked her if she knew what the real meaning of it was.With a somewhat puzzled look on her face she say's Besides Santa? After a little giggle I said ya, the true meaning. She said no and that was the beginning of a long Saturday conversation.the thing I was most amazed with was how curious she was about it. I went home that night and was in bed going through my day and Ivana popped right into the front.The way I'm looking at it is, I want her to know what the real meaning of things are. We (society) have masked so many important facts in this world that we need to tell the kids of tomorrow the real deal. From Christmas to Easter to whatever. Please don't get me wrong, I am in now way trying to shove GOD onto anybody. I just want them (Ivana and Saige) to know the truth and choose for theirselves.I also understand that they are just babies, but this world is going about 99 gazzillion miles an hour and there gonna have more stuff thrown at them that I figure if she can understand what were talking about thats that much better.Well I've done it again, rambling lol thats it for now I guess. Thanks again 4 listening and have a great holiday. BYE:c011: ]]> Spirituality tim4960 http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188874-just-keeps-giveing.html The Biggest Word Ever - AS http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188816-biggest-word-ever.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:43:28 GMT The biggest word in spiritual literture is "AS". Forgive us our trespasses, AS we forgive those that trespass against us. In the realm of the spiritual forgiveness is the key to all that we seek. it is the one thing that stands between us and God. A lack of forgiveness leads to anger and anger to contempt. It is that dark dirty place of contempt that God finally must turn away from us for a period. In the Red Letters, Jesus talks more about forgiveness than heaven. In the steps we deal with clearing away the wreckage of the past and resentments being our number one offender both deal specificly with forgiveness. It is easy to attend meetings or go out to eat with a member we like, God wants us to extend oursleves to those we do not like! Try it, you will be blessed. ]]> Spirituality GotItFirstTime http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188816-biggest-word-ever.html My Higher Power http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188321-my-higher-power.html Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:30:17 GMT It seems to me that the more time I aquire clean, the funnier life becomes, at least for me anyway. For the first time EVER, I have all my christmas shopping done.(todays date is nov.11th) You have... It seems to me that the more time I aquire clean, the funnier life becomes, at least for me anyway. For the first time EVER, I have all my christmas shopping done.(todays date is nov.11th) You have no idea how much this makes me happy lol. Now come christmas eve, I won't be in some over crowded store, fighting with some other desprite person,over some useless product that I have no idea what it is or does but I need it to fill that one gift I forgot.This past weekend I thought about those crazy times and just looked up and said Thanks.Im finding I do that a lot lately. The way I see it, I drove for all my life and to tell you the truth things didn't turn out so well. Then I decided to let my Higher Power drive, and its been a lot smoother then when I had the wheel.So now I sit back, let the sunshine in and enjoy some of that light I use to hate so much.(lets not forget those wicked birds at 7 in the morning lol) I use to sit and say to myself, why didnt you do this :c011:sooner stupid, you could have saved yourself so much pain. But over time I have learned that ''Nothing happens before it suppose to happen'' For now I think Ill just see what today brings and not forget to thank HIM, for letting me wake up this morning, with money still in my wallet,not oweing anyone,wondering how I was going to get high ,and on and on and on. just remembering how tiresome that was makes me want to take a nap,lol. Today I have 3 years clean from the big (H) . They say the first yr is a gift, well maybe it was for you but for me I white knuckled it most of that year so. Well thanks again for listening and you have a wonderful Holiday ok Bye:c031: ]]> Spirituality tim4960 http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188321-my-higher-power.html Pantheist Testimony http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188244-pantheist-testimony.html Tue, 10 Nov 2009 13:20:08 GMT I've read and listened to many testimonies in my life. Many by former atheists about how in their despair they found "God". I am happy for anyone who finds something that leads to growth and joy. I was jealous. I was raised in a faith. I HAD "God", but I didn't have what those people who shared their testimonies had. I felt like I was cheated, like I would have been better off to be a bitter, hopeless non believer, if that meant when I got "God" my life would change.

I've always been a very spiritual person, even as a very young child. What I didn't realize is that the religion I was raised in, and thus practiced, was in conflict with what I truly experienced. This conflict led to very much grief and disillusionment as I grew up. I practiced one religion, while my actual beliefs were something else, but having only the religion I was raised in as reference, I didn't even see that my spirituality was a viable option.

Trying to believe what my religion of origin taught, in spite of evidence to the contrary took a huge toll on me mentally and emotionally. I think the resulting sense of failure, terror, etc was a large influence in my addictive behavior.

I won't bore you with the dramatic details, I'll just jump forward to me in an isolation room in a psych hospital. Empty locked room, paper sheet for company. Wow...in spite of obvious mental turmoil, a sense of clarity came over me. Here I was...I'd committed one of the most henious sins. I was a total failure as far as my religion was concerned, had committed the unforgivable sin. Had done everything that I was brought up knowing that if I did them, "God" would have nothing to do with me.

Yet, here I was. The ground had not opened up to swallow me. The air still filled my lungs. My body systems were working, and even though I'd totally blown it...people who I didn't even know were doing things to keep me alive in spite of myself. Hmmm....

Clearly the "God" I was raised to believe in was not "God" after all. Because the promises made to me if I did do as instructed had not come to pass...and now the promises made about what would happen if I did NOT do as instructed, had not come to pass. Yet clearly there was something sustaining me.

I decided right then and there to stop practicing an empty faith based on a "God" that was clearly not a "God" and to start practicing what I knew to be true based on a life of experience. I had no name for what I believed, and even the concepts were hazy, since I'd never sat down and defined them, but I knew I had always felt a connection to something larger than myself that had a quiet yet very real power.

Several years later I came across others who believed as I did, and literature about the same. It's known as Pantheism. The Universe as Ultimate Reality.

The Universe has real power, no threats or ultimatums needed. I can do nothing outside of the "laws" of the Universe. I cannot hurt of offend it. It doesn't play favorites or indeed single out anyone for personal reward or condemnation. It does it's thing, and I am blessed to be a part of its awesome processes. It is not centered upon me or even upon humanity. We are part of its process, but not the point of it's process. I learned a true gratitude and humility.

This coming to faith saved my life, and propelled me on a spiritual journey of trust, sanity, and humility that continues today.

I don't have to control things, the Universe has it covered. On the other hand, the Universe isn't going to save me, not from myself, not from reality, not from mortality. That is OK. My understanding of my role in the Dynamic Process that is the Universe is the basis of my trust and faith. I am fully integrated, the Universe has me covered. It knit me together and one day will unravel me and knit my stuff into something else. Pretty awesome. I don't need to be immortal. I don't need to obsess over myself. All I need to do is accept my role as part of the Dynamic Process and fully experience it. I can release fear, obsession, etc...because in the larger scope of things, they are unecessary.

that being said, as a mortal and social creature, I DO need my drives and desires to survive, that is part of reality as well. I don't need to become detached to all the normal traits of humans. They too are functions of the Dynamic Process, no self hatred necessary, no trying to be anything other than human.

19 years as a practicing Pantheist. I could go on and on, but I just wanted to share MY awakening experience. ]]> Spirituality Threshold http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/188244-pantheist-testimony.html Could Nirodha be related to Recovery? http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187749-could-nirodha-related-recovery.html Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:46:54 GMT Nirodha - Suffering's Cessation:

"This is the 3rd noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance on it."

The word Nirodha has been translated as "cessation" for so long that it has become standard practice, and any deviation from it leads to queries. For the most part this standard translation is for the sake of convenience as well as to avoid confusing it for other Pali terms (apart from lack of a better word). In fact, however, this rendering of the word "Nirodha" as "ceased" can in many instances be a mis-rendering of the text.

Generally speaking, the word "cease" means to do away with something which has already arisen, or the stopping of something which has already begun. However, Nirodha in the teaching of Dependent Origination (as also in dukkhanirodha, the third of the Four Noble Truths) means the non-arising, or non-existence, of something because the cause of its arising is done away with. For example, the phrase "when avijja is Nirodha, sankhara are also Nirodha," which is usually taken to mean "with the cessation of ignorance, volitional impulses cease," in fact means "when there is no ignorance, or no arising of ignorance, or when there is no longer any problem with ignorance, there are no volitional impulses, volitional impulses do not arise, or there is no longer any problem with volitional impulses." It does not mean that ignorance already arisen must be done away with before the volitional impulses which have already arisen will also be done away with.

Where Nirodha should be rendered as cessation is when it is used in reference to the natural way of things, or the nature of compounded things. In this sense it is a synonym for the words bhanga, breaking up, anicca, transient, khaya, cessation or vaya, decay. For example, in the Pali it is given: imam kho bhikkhave tisso vedana anicca sankhata paticcasamuppanna khayadhamma vayadhamma viragadhamma nirodhadhamma: "Monks, these three kinds of feeling are naturally impermanent, compounded, dependently arisen, transient, subject to decay, dissolution, fading and cessation."[S.IV.214] (All of the factors occurring in the Dependent Origination cycle have the same nature.) In this instance, the meaning is "all conditioned things (sankhara), having arisen, must inevitably decay and fade according to supporting factors." There is no need to try to stop them, they cease of themselves. Here the intention is to describe a natural condition which, in terms of practice, simply means "that which arises can be done away with."

As for Nirodha in the third Noble Truth (or the Dependent Origination cycle in cessation mode), although it also describes a natural process, its emphasis is on practical considerations. It is translated in two ways in the Visuddi Magga. One way traces the etymology to "ni" (without) + "rodha" (prison, confine, obstacle, wall, impediment), thus rendering the meaning as "without impediment," "free of confinement." This is explained as "free of impediments, that is, the confinement of Samsara." Another definition traces the origin to anuppada, meaning "not arising", and goes on to say "Nirodha here does not mean bhanga, breaking up and dissolution."

Therefore, translating Nirodha as "cessation", although not entirely wrong, is nevertheless not entirely accurate. On the other hand, there is no other word which comes so close to the essential meaning as "cessation." However, we should understand what is meant by the term. In this context, the Dependent Origination cycle in its cessation mode might be better rendered as "being free of ignorance, there is freedom from volitional impulses ..." or "when ignorance is gone, volitional impulses are gone ..." or "when ignorance ceases to give fruit, volitional impulses cease to give fruit ..." or "when ignorance is no longer a problem, volitional impulses are no longer a problem."

Four Noble Truths - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Stages of Buddhist Meditation ]]> Spirituality Boleo http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187749-could-nirodha-related-recovery.html Invisable Power http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187704-invisable-power.html Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:54:24 GMT I have come to believe that it possible to see evidence of God’s work. Like watching a lap-lighter from a distance after dark it is easy to see where he has been. I have seen many tiny miracles... I have come to believe that it possible to see evidence of God’s work. Like watching a lap-lighter from a distance after dark it is easy to see where he has been. I have seen many tiny miracles that by themselves don’t amount to much but when combined in just the right way add up to miraculous changes. Carl Jung called these seemingly amazing coincidences “synchronicity”.

Werner Heisenberg was a physicist who noticed something highly unusual going on in the world of quantum physics. It seemed to him that there were certain attributes of subatomic particles that could not be measured. He proposed that the problem was not simply a matter of man’s lack of sophisticated instruments but rather it was the result of certain aspects of the universe that “refused to be measured”. In other words, he predicts that no amount of scientific progress or advances in technology would ever solve these mysteries. He went on to explain that they were caused by some kind of universal law that was “built in” to the fabric of the universe. This “feature” as he called it, of the laws of physics was a permanent enigma to man and would remain true till the end of time.

This limit to man's ability to “know for certain” these kinds of things is why it is called the “Uncertainty Principle”. There are branches of philosophy dedicated to these kinds of limits to man’s knowledge known as epistemology, gnoseology and existentialism. Knowledge of the existence of God frequently falls into this category.

The interesting thing about Heisenburg’s “Uncertainty Principle” is that it partly explains why God’s trail can be seen but his presence cannot be detected. God has built certain “features” into the fabric of the universe that allow both a clockwork universe and divine providence to take place simultaneously. Oddly enough there are religions that have recognized this for thousands of years. Mainly Hinduism and offshoots of it, such as, Tantra and Chan Buddhism. Taoism even has a name for it; they call it Wuwei or “invisible power”.

Another source of “invisible power” built into the fabric of the universe is what several Eastern Religions call Karma. The word Karma simply means “action” but some religions say the Karma includes intentions and expectations as well. One of the laws associated with the Law of Karma is that it cannot be seen directly. It can be reflected upon using hindsight but there is something about man’s limited intelligence that blocks him or her from seeing it from a salient perspective. Some spiritual teachers say that they can see other peoples Karma from a second or third person perspective but even they cannot see their own Karma without the help of a Guru or mentor.

There is still at least one other source of “invisible power” in the universe. Carl Jung called it the “Collective unconscious”. He theorized that deep within every human being there was a shared or universal knowledge that could be tapped into under certain conditions. This universal knowledge was species specific and shared by all life forms.

Spiritual authors such as Emmet Fox, James Allen, Aldous Huxley and Thomas Troward have written many books about the reciprocal relationship within the universe but are not always consistent with the terminology that they use to describe it. Soren Kierkegaard also believed that there were some things that man could never know without God’s help and started a movement against philosophy which would later become known as Existentialism.

The Law of Reciprocity says in a nutshell that every thing we think, do or say comes back to us some day and every thing we experience is influenced by this cause/effect relationship. Thomas Troward sums it up this way:

“It is a universal rule that nature obeys us exactly in proportion as we first obey nature. Spirit is life pure and simple, external things are the result of interior forces. We shall find that there is in us a constant action and reaction between the infinite and the individual, like the circulation of blood from the heart to the extremities and back again. The self in us includes the infinite as well as the individual.” ]]> Spirituality Boleo http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187704-invisable-power.html Taoism http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187610-taoism.html Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:32:58 GMT I was introduced to this and I am still learning about it. I am very interested in it and ordered a book or two about it. Does anyone have any experience or practice this in their daily lives? It is... I was introduced to this and I am still learning about it. I am very interested in it and ordered a book or two about it. Does anyone have any experience or practice this in their daily lives? It is a lot like buddism some of it (taoism) was derrived from it I think.

It seems so peaceful, they have made it into the 12 step program for those in recovery. It is spiritual and not all about a God, not saying I don't believe in God but I think I am more spiritual than religious (organized religion makes me cringe). So, I would just like to see if you all have any thoughts on it!

:tyou ]]> Spirituality ashleek http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187610-taoism.html Thankful to be Me. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187584-thankful-me.html Sun, 01 Nov 2009 15:51:13 GMT Last night I went Trick or Treating with my two beautiful grandaughters, ages 1and 5, and even though it was raining a bit, we all had a great time.About half way threw the evening I was walking... Last night I went Trick or Treating with my two beautiful grandaughters, ages 1and 5, and even though it was raining a bit, we all had a great time.About half way threw the evening I was walking somewhat behind everybody just thinking how I really missed doing this with my 3 kids when they were little.The only difference between then and now is today I am clean and can truly enjoy these times. Don't get me wrong, we laughed and joked, but never without some kind of substance in my system.My oldest grand daughter noticed I was falling behind and walked back to me and said Hi grandpa, will you take me to the next house and took my hand. I am 49 yrs old and it takes a lot to even get me to think about crying, well I almost did. Call me a wimp,(lol) but once out of the mouth of babes, she almost got the tears.I looked down, smiled and said ABSOLUTLY... and off we went.I have to admit, it was one of the best nights i've had in a long time.As I woke up this morning,I opened the curtins and I stood there and just looked at how beautiful the world is.The leaves were all shades and there was a fall crispness in the air. You couldn't have asked for a more perfect November day, And as I closed my eyes I could almost smell the turkey roasting in the oven.It's still at times a little over whelming,I've been doing drugs since I was 10 years old and seemed to have woken up from a nightmare and placed into this utopia since I stopped useing. Please dont get me wrong, I dont live in a world with lollypop trees and bubblegum bushes, but since I stopped useing, opened my eyes and let my higher power take the wheel, things have gotten better each day.looking back,I dont regrete much that has happened in the past because it's made me into who I am today, and Today, I'm Thankful to be Me. ]]> Spirituality tim4960 http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187584-thankful-me.html scientific prayer ( A little Emmet Fox?) http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187423-scientific-prayer-little-emmet-fox.html Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:14:55 GMT Get by yourself, and be quiet for a few moments. Do not strain
to think rightly or to find the right thought, but just be quiet. The Bible says "Be still, and know that I am God."


Remind yourself of some of the things that you know about Him. Consider how he is present everywhere, and a part of everything ( even our adversities become fuel for building faith). Read a few verses from any spiritual book that helps you. I find that all the major religions have a common theme, through reading Eastern mystics and chritian theologians I am reminded of the universality of the idea of God that rests in all of us.
During this time of reflection and prayer do not think about your prob-
lem, but to give your attention to God. We do not need try to
solve our problem directly (which would be using will power, directing our thoughts can lead us to confuse our will with His) but rather become interested in thinking of the nature of God. Next claim the thing that you need. Claim it quietly and confidently. Then give thanks for the accomplished fact as you would if somebody handed you a gift. That famous Jewish Carpenter said when you pray, believe that you receive and you shall receive.
Do not discuss your treatment with anyone.

Quiet confidence is a source of strength ]]> Spirituality navysteve http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187423-scientific-prayer-little-emmet-fox.html Enjoy the Ride http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187385-enjoy-ride.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:36:14 GMT This is a beautiful, short video presentation about life with an important message. Be sure to have your speakers turned on. enjoytheride (http://lshs64.com/enjoytheride.html) Enjoy it, but, more... This is a beautiful, short video presentation about life with an important message. Be sure to have your speakers turned on.
enjoytheride
Enjoy it, but, more importantly,
Enjoy the Ride! :c031:

Shalom! ]]> Spirituality historyteach http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187385-enjoy-ride.html <![CDATA[Do you have a "life mission"?]]> http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187344-do-you-have-life-mission.html Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:33:34 GMT Does your daily schedule conform to your mission? Does your daily schedule conform to your mission? ]]> Spirituality Pboy http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187344-do-you-have-life-mission.html Emotional Freedom with Rumi http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187273-emotional-freedom-rumi.html Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:14:40 GMT I found this, and, knowing how much Ann loves Rumi, I thought I'd share it.
It's also so very appropriate.
I hope you'll all like it. :e058:

Quote:
Want Emotional Freedom Today?
Mondays Mindful Quote with Rumi
By Elisha Goldstein, Ph.D.
October 26, 2009


“Don’t turn away. Keep your gaze on the bandaged place. That’s where the light enters you.”

Here is yet another quote that points us to the reality of what most of us habitually try to avoid or react to. The way to emotional freedom is through “being with” and embracing that which is painful or difficult in us rather that “trying to fix”, push away, or run from it.

Now, there’s nothing wrong with trying “to fix” things. Without this ability you wouldn’t have the seat you’re sitting in, the computer you’re looking at, or the clothes you’re wearing (if you’re wearing them). Most the time we’re not even aware we’re trying to avoid it.

However, when it comes to our emotions, trying to think our way out of them is only a path of avoidance. This avoidance creates further suffering.

Think about it for a second. What happens when you try and think about becoming less anxious or depressed? You go up into your head and start swirling around about why this is happening and maybe what you can do about it. In other words, we add stress to discomfort.

Another way to look at this is to ask: Where are you not? You’re not paying attention to the reality of the moment which is this feeling, the feeling of sadness or frustration or even joy. Yes, for many of us joy is mixed up in uncomfortable feelings so we avoid that too.

It is in the very moment that we become intimate, in a nonjudgmental way, with our discomfort, that we send the message internally that we care about ourselves (”the light enters you”) and this begins to transform the moment.

Franz Kafka, author of Metamorphosis, said:

“You can hold back from suffering of the world,

...you have permission to do so,

......and it is in accordance with your nature,

.........but perhaps this very holding back

.............is the one suffering you could have avoided.”

Ponder that for a bit today.


Try this today as an experiment when you experience an uncomfortable feeling for a single minute:

“Breathing in, I feel this feeling, breathing out, I let it be”

You can shorten this to just saying “feel” on the in breath and “let be” on the out breath.

The instructions are simple, but they may not always be easy. Be kind and gentle with yourself through this process.

But, as Nike says, just do it. :wink3:
(all emphasis in the article was added by me.)

Shalom! ]]> Spirituality historyteach http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187273-emotional-freedom-rumi.html Visualization http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187210-visualization.html Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:28:30 GMT Is there a science or discipline of Psychology that emphasizes visualization to achieve future goals of living a life you long for? Is there a science or discipline of Psychology that emphasizes visualization to achieve future goals of living a life you long for? ]]> Spirituality Pboy http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187210-visualization.html Woman Dies in Az Sweat Lodge .... words of advice http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187126-woman-dies-az-sweat-lodge-words-advice.html Mon, 26 Oct 2009 03:02:33 GMT { moderators - I didn't know where to put this - if more appropriate someplace else, please move it there? thank you!}


I don't know how many here are delving into Native American Spirituality as part of their 11th step stuff... or how many *do* think about having a 'sweat lodge experience' ...

You can google the incident I'm talking about ...
just say 'sweat lodge deaths in az'


Hi.
My name is Deb.
In *some* circles, I'm more often known as Falling Leaves.

I've been running sweats for over 25 years and there's a few rules of thumb I'd like to pass on to my firends here in SR. I confess this only to show qualification for what I'm about to advise.

First and foremost -

If you're on anti-depressants - do NOT sweat.
Go and watch - help carry stones ... but do NOT go inside the lodge.
If you've EVER had a heart problem -
High blood pressure
if you're on Kolonipin, ultram, or other type pain medication...
thyroid medication, anything ANYTHING ....

do NOT go into the lodge.

Not unless you can medically supervised go OFF the meds
and even then - you need a few weeks OFF it
before your body can properly react to the amazingly INTENSE heat
of a Sweat Lodge Ceremony.

If you got drunk the night before -
stay OUT of the lodge.
You risk immediate liver and kidney failure
to enter a sweat with a polluted liver

I read that article ....
and I just got MAD.
Flat out angry.

I've heard people compare the heat of a sweat lodge
to a high sauna.
The two are NOTHING alike.
NOTHING alike.

two places
you go into
and theres heated rocks.
THAT ... is where the similarity ends.

Please please PLEASE consult a doctor
before trying something
as intense and as complicated
as a Sweat Lodge.

RUN AWAY from anyone who tries
o charge you money to sweat.
(I read these people paid 10,000.00 each for a week of this)

P.T. Barnum is proven right again.

It's ... well, it's blasphemy is what it is.

This is a Sacred Ceremony dreamed into this world by our Native American Ancestors. I was YEARS on a path of knowledge before my teachers decided that I, as part-blood would be able to hold the space to Chief a Lodge. It was an honor that I earned, and never EVER has money exchanged hands for the privilidge of running a sweat.

Wow.
Those poor people.

Thank you for letting me rant for a minute.

I like most everyone I co-respond with here on SR
and I'd HATE to lose someone
because of irresponsibility.

:ghug3 ]]> Spirituality barb dwyer http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/spirituality/187126-woman-dies-az-sweat-lodge-words-advice.html