Selective Food Abstinence- Cutting a Threat or Feeding Perfectionism?

[pedagogue]

I've lurked through a bunch of threads over the years regarding food abstinence, most commonly associated with sugar, and I've always wondering if this is a healthy or unhealthy practice. Obviously it varies by the person, but I thought I'd throw this out there. I have always believed that the best treatment is what works for you, which for many is a 12-step model, but I've becoming increasing concerned with a push towards a selective food abstinence.

I understand the believe in selective food abstinence has grown out of the AA/NA belief of abstinence from the DoC, which was then picked up by many in OA. Obviously what is different between AA/NA and OA is that you can't fully abstain from food, so selective food abstinence is sought.

There is evidence that sugar intake can effect mood, and the body can be sensitive to different types of nutrition....for instance: people who don't get enough protein, can often crave protein. People who shift to a low carb diet often crave carbs. The same thing happens with sugar. The body can definitely be 'trained' to want something more than others, but I think there is a 'healthy range' for a body, so going from one extreme to the other can be just as destructive, even if it presents differently. So what happens to the body when you take away a vital piece that it has used for thousands of years?

Here is my concern, does moving from one extreme (over-use / abuse) of a selective food to the other extreme (completely cutting it out) cause more harm than good? The primary harm is the large nutrition swing, but secondarily it seems to feed (no pun intended) into perfectionist tendencies. The black and white thinking of...."I can't have any...EVER...of (sugar)". What happens when a slip happens (they happen), then it can tank how a person feels about their recovery. Why is this a chosen method over moderation? I know some will say that they can't handle any, but is that realistic? It seems like people set themselves up for failure, then they fail, and then they point at the failure and go, "SEE?!! I am a failure". I think this is a dangerous setup for even the most stable person.

Thoughts?

-p

[smiling jack]

Hi,

I believe abstaining from obvious sweets does not imply abstaining from sugar. OS's are processed foods with loads of sugar: candy bars, doughnuts, sweetrolls, pie, etc. I have eaten those foods alcoholicly, and try to abstain from them.

I substitute fresh fruits that are also loaded with sugar, but it is natural...not processed, and takes the body longer to digest. This substitution has, I believe, been good enough to lose weight and reduce my too-high cloresterol.

I read, Potatoes, Not Prozac, that lended scientific methodology to this, as well.

I have only met one person, a Halle Berry look-alike, who abstained from sugar. Anything with sugar listed on the ingredients higher than 5th, was off her list. She did not eat citrus fruits. I don't know about other fruits.

[RRecovery]

If you believe in the concept of food addiction, as I do, then the correlation between a food addict's need to stay away from sugar in all its forms and the need for an alcoholic to stay away from alcohol in any of its form becomes obvious. I am now 17 months abstinent from not only sugar but wheat and flour too and my life has never been better. I no longer play games with the food. My life is worth far more than any cupcake---not that I ever stopped at one cupcake before in my life.

[pedagogue]

First off, congrats on 17 months, it seems to be working for you.

I'm not a believer in the physiological addiction of food, which is quite different than alcohol addiction. I do know that sugar can have SOME effects, but I don't think it goes to the level of withdrawal symptoms and possible death that alcohol dependence would cause. I think there can very much be a psychological addiction to food, and it can be very powerful, and that is really intimidating.

Can you see how excluding one thing, and then another thing to exclude, and then another couple be a slippery slope? Will it reach a point where you will only eat raw food that is green, red, and orange? (I'm half saying that tongue in cheek, but I've seen that happen). I guess in the end it is about what works best for your life, but the idea of cutting out whole sections of food seems more eating disordered than not.

-p

[RRecovery]

I am gone through withdrawal from sugar and I know of many others who have also. Sugar is a drug like caffeine and with any drug if you use excessive amounts for long periods of time you will crash afterwards.
I eat wonderful healthy foods every day. One of the blessings of being involved in Food Addicts Anonymous.

[Pony]

Thanks for your input Peda. You know I always love it when you come in and share your thoughts.

You have given me something to think about here. I am a great believer in moderation. It is, however, a difficult thing to abtain when you have addict thinking. Nothing in the addicts mind in ever balanced...lol...

I do follow the idea of food being more psychological rather than physiological. Although, yes, there have been instances where people have had physical withdrawls from certain types of foods or certain reactions from certain types of foods. Maybe that has to do with their genetic make up. As you pointed out, it is whatever works for YOU. We are all individuals, that is why not one plan works for all. It is not a one size fits all world !!

But you were stating about total abstinence does give me something to think about in reguards to my own program.

Thanks for stopping by.... hugs

[dave47]

With myself,i can think that i don't want to ever drink alcohol again.With certain sugars that i am trying to not have(chocolate,cakes,ice cream etc),my abstinance is not looked upon as a permanent arrangement.They say a little of what you fancy does you good,and for healthy people who look after their bodies i believe that.My binge foods are the sugary desserts and i feel that total abstinance,for now,is far better for my body and mind than overloading.I would be happy to reintroduce these in the future if i feel it would be at a controlled level.I don't really feel as though i have a sugar addiction the way i feel about alcohol,but at the same time an overload causes me to get unbelievably tired.I love food and don't think i could ever end up in a situation where i eat hardly anything,and only the same type of healthy food.All i want to do is be healthy and that means cutting out some junk foods.There are some diets which only let you eat selective foods,i wouldn't try these,probably for some of the concerns you have raised.Have read that most dieters are doomed to failure,mainly due to their mindset.The way to success is to not let it control you and concentrate on a healthier life and to not beat yourself up about any setbacks.Thats what i'm aiming for and thanks for the interesting post.

[RRecovery]

For many years I had a "diet mentality". I would stay away from certain foods like sugar with the secret thought of returning to them in the back of my mind. Today it just is a reminder of the insidiousness of my food addiction. Why oh why would I ever want to return to binge eating any food. Binge eating by definition signifies loss of control and loss of control is one of the symptoms of addiction.

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by Pony

Thanks for your input Peda. You know I always love it when you come in and share your thoughts.

You have given me something to think about here. I am a great believer in moderation. It is, however, a difficult thing to abtain when you have addict thinking. Nothing in the addicts mind in ever balanced...lol...

I do follow the idea of food being more psychological rather than physiological. Although, yes, there have been instances where people have had physical withdrawls from certain types of foods or certain reactions from certain types of foods. Maybe that has to do with their genetic make up. As you pointed out, it is whatever works for YOU. We are all individuals, that is why not one plan works for all. It is not a one size fits all world !!

But you were stating about total abstinence does give me something to think about in reguards to my own program.

Thanks for stopping by.... hugs

Good to hear from ya!

I thought it'd be an interesting discussion. One of the reasons I brought it up was that I see so many people subscribing to 'lifestyle eating' that are really just repackaged dieting ideas because of their rules and rigidity. So for people who go this route it can be more harmful because they don't realize they are really dieting under the guise of 'healthy eating'. Of course, there is a fine line between this and what I consider 'healthy eating'. I think the biggest difference is a greater flexibility in 'rules' and less rigidity. Obviously a person can't magically wake up one day and go, "Okay Body....we are going to work together now, how about we eat our normal stuff and then have (trigger food group)", but I think it is something to work towards....which is where I see a conflict down the road with abstinence.

Originally Posted by dave47

I would be happy to reintroduce these in the future if i feel it would be at a controlled level.I don't really feel as though i have a sugar addiction the way i feel about alcohol,but at the same time an overload causes me to get unbelievably tired.

I do like some of the modifications people have taken with abstinence, where they use a 'wash out' period, and then slowly work back in the area that they abstained from. I think this would remove a lot of the physiological issues, and hopefully adjust the response if reintroduced in moderation. Obviously this isn't possible for everyone, but I think this flexibility is important to at least try and work towards.

Originally Posted by dave47

Have read that most dieters are doomed to failure,mainly due to their mindset.The way to success is to not let it control you and concentrate on a healthier life and to not beat yourself up about any setbacks.Thats what i'm aiming for and thanks for the interesting post.

Yup. The diet becomes the drug for many people.

Originally Posted by RRecovery

For many years I had a "diet mentality". I would stay away from certain foods like sugar with the secret thought of returning to them in the back of my mind.

The imminent return.

I've always like the eastern idea of, "When a person wants nothing, they have everything" (or something like that); severing that wicked "craving" lets the food to be the food.

-p

[odaat]

I've tried moderation many times, and it just doesn't work for me. With certain foods, if I have a small amount, it leads to so much craving that I always end up giving in a binging. Its far healthier for me to avoid eating those foods completely. Its a personal thing - I just avoid what is bad for me, but continue to eat things which cause me no problems, despite them possibly being a problem for others.

I don't worry about overly restricting my diet. All the things that I don't eat are all things which aren't essential. We do have a hugely varied range of foods avialble now, and there is probably still more that I can eat than I can't.

I have no wish to 'test' myself by allowing myself a small amount of my banned foods - that would just be the start of a downward spiral.

I tend to look at my problem with food like an allergy. There are certain foods that my body cannot tolerate, and I cannot have them. Thats the end of it. No point thinking about it, wondering about, wishing etc.

I don't see how avoiding certain foods in the long-term is a problem.

[smiling jack]

I liked the discussion and the differing points of view. My theripist related that scientific evidence points to eating disorders being more similiar to gambling disorders than to alcoholism. There is a process involved with eating and gaming that does not occur in the same way with drinking/drugging.

Sharing experience, strength and hope works for me. I could not have changed my unhealthy eating ways (binging on sweets) by myself. I no longer want to try.

[pedagogue]

Originally Posted by smiling jack

I liked the discussion and the differing points of view. My therapist related that scientific evidence points to eating disorders being more similar to gambling disorders than to alcoholism. There is a process involved with eating and gaming that does not occur in the same way with drinking/drugging.

Sharing experience, strength and hope works for me. I could not have changed my unhealthy eating ways (binging on sweets) by myself. I no longer want to try.

In gambling there is a pretty well reported 'cycle' that happens for most gamblers (it involves anticipation, which triggers the release of endorphins and neurotransmitters, which reinforces the behaviors associated with gambling, etc), and this is present during a binge. In regard to drinking/drugging, it can be a similar cycle, though it often is different.

I enjoy discussions like this because everyone has a different experience, but there are often some commonalities that popup.

-p

[RRecovery]

My experience is the same as ODAAT. I cannot moderately eat sugar. In my case I also am addicted to wheat and flour--- give me a slice a pizza and it sends me into intense craving. So I have eliminated all of these from my daily food plan. Of course, I back this up with a 12 step program which offers me the necessary support I need.

23 years ago I surrendered to alcohol and have followed that same routine with outstanding success. I don't drink alcohol in any shape or form. It just took me about another 15 years or so to make the same connection with sugar, flour and wheat and another 6 years to surrender to them and work another program of recovery specifically designed for food addiction.

[BeeBee]

I think that the most detrimental ingredient in food is MSG and all the names it comes under, including those two words, "natural flavoring". MSG is hiding behind many other names in our processed foods.....almost all processed foods has this in it. I believe that it is the number one ingredient responsible for food addictions and eating disorders. I know that I'm on shaky ground here when I say this, but I really believe this. It's not so much about giving up whole groups of foods, as Pedagogue said. I believe it's got more to do with getting back to the natural. Eating whole foods and eliminating processed foods. I have made great strides in doing this in my own diet and I have felt remarkable results. Not only do I believe that MSG in all it's undercover names is responsible for obiesity, but I also believe it is greatly responsible for a lot of health issues as well. I will admit that it's hard to eliminate all MSG from your diet, but I have been doing it little by little and along the way I'm discovering that I can create just about all of the flavors that come prepackaged, by experimenting with spices. It's amazing how much MSG comes in Taco Seasoning, chili seasoning, etc. It's amazing how much MSG is in soup, mac and cheese, hamburger helper, crackers. IT'S AMAZING!

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents. It's nice seeing everyone again!!