Struggling with a question

[cfm]

Does anyone have any expierence with this?
...........How do you explain to someone in AA that their is no such thing as spirituality outside of Jesus Christ. How do you tell someone that the return to humanity that they are expieriencing, that they are terming spirituality is just being sober. Alot of people who are not born again believers think they have spiritual gifts. How do you wittness to them that that's impossible?

[totfit]

You don't.

[cmc]

I try not to make such judgements about other people whether they are Christian or not. God can manifest Himself to those he chooses to.



I"m glad that He did that for me or I would never have known about his love in the first place.

I happen to believe that God reveals himself to unbelievers all the time. I say this based on scriptures and countless testimonies I've heard over many years.



It's His business, His job to do. My job is to share my own experience and what I believe- and to leave the rest to God and allow others to decide for themselves- all the while offering my love & respect (no matter their choices or opinions) to those who disagree or don't know Him yet.

[langkah]

Why not do a test first? Try explaining that one to me.

I promise to give you some feedback.

[RobbyRobot]

I am Christian. I do not accept only Christians experience authentic spiritual gifts. God of course was working with people many centuries before Christianity. Others can of course experience spirituality and not themselves be Christian.

[cfm]

Originally Posted by totfit

You don't.

Great answer, thankS LOL

[CAPTAINZING2000]

I'd rather be around someone that acted like a Christian then one that professes to be and doesn't act it

[heathersweeds]

Sometimes I have to remind myself God doesn't need help!

[cfm]

Originally Posted by langkah

Why not do a test first? Try explaining that one to me.

I promise to give you some feedback.

awwwww, that's ok, I'll just forget., My mistake, sorry.
However if you want to do some reading I could suggest:
1Cor.12:5-7,11
or
Eph 4:8-11
or
Rom12:6
or
1Cor 12:1-31
or
Hos 9:7
or
Rom 8:6
or perhaps
1 Cor 14:37-39
or maybe...................Ah, forget it, like I said, My mistake

[cmc]

The context of this post...I believe...is about being spiritual not about being filled with the Holy Spirit. We (all people) are made in His likeness- we consist of body, mind, soul and spirit: made in His image/likeness.

That spirit which is the essense of a person is what responds to God. In that sense all people are spiritual.

Of course there are many other aspects about 'spirits' that people may come in contact with including those which are of god and those that bible says are -not- from God. These generally involve occult practices or otherwise violating what God says is good & true. Like: love one another, forgive one another etc etc.

There is no scripture that I have ever seen that leads me to believe that non-Christians cannot be spiritual. Their spirituality won't be like mine but we can both share the wonder & awe of His creation.

There's a scripture about how creation itself cries out that there is a god....this refers to more than an intellectual recognition. It draws us to Him.

Christians know Him in a spiritual way that is according to what is taught in the bible- others may not be ready for that now or ever. That is their right-their choice.



I used to believe that the 12 step programs had it all wrong about that "HP" issue.

I changed my mind one night @ an NA meeting when I realized that God could, would, did and still does- 'save' those who call upon Him- whether they receive the full package of salvation or not.

I knew, sadly that many of those folks might die before making their peace with God- better to have a program and have the chance to live here and forevemore with Christ.

Otherwise those folks who for now remain 'spiritual' in their own way would never have the chance to #1. Recover #2 Stay alive and most important: #3 One day have the chance to accept the God of my choice.

Isn't it great that He loves us unconditionally and doesn't just allow those who claim to be his kids- to benefit from the privelige of recovery & life?

One more thought...that verse about being filled with God's spirit- and the many others about the fruits of the spirit and His love flowing from me to others:
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

here's another one that means alot to me:

Romans 8:15
For ye received not the spirit of bondage again unto fear; but ye received the spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Being spiritual, having a spirit, being filled with the Holy Spirit, evil spirits, the spirit of adoption are just a few examples of how broad the subject of spirituality can be merely within the scripture.

As I said before giving people room to find God is the best gift I can give but I'm compelled to do that only 'in the spirit of' respectfully sharing God's love.

The main focus that I have learned in my own recovery is to focus on changing myself- not others. I can share anything about my faith or recovery with somebody else.

Once I do that the ball is in their court to take what they want and leave the rest.

I can share what works for me in a meeting, here on SR or anywhere else but I don't see anything positive about telling someone struggling with some type of addiction that they can't be spiritual- especially when their life here on this earth may depend on it.

that's my 2cents...take it or leave it but please know it is offered... to quote my SR pal Chance: "with love and respect.'

[hydrogirl]

"Let all the brothers, however, preach by their deeds."
- St. Francis of Assissi

This somehow became morphed into a quote which actually cannot be attributed to St. Francis as "Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."

But I always liked it anyway. If you live your life and recovery joyfully, people will be drawn to that.

[miamifella]

Just remember that there are many people asking how they can convince you that your faith in Jesus Christ is superstition and separates you from true spirituality.

But they do not.

Treat them with the same respect.

[Lily]

I ALWAYS ask permission before I share the message of salvation with anyone. One thing I have learned in AA and NA meetings that took me a loooong time to learn was, there is much I can learn from them! Yes, I have Jesus and I have salvation, but my walk was anything but following the LORD. I was a controller, manipulator, and I wasn't able to accept any kind of change or anything that disrupted my so called "agenda." I started noticing these people had a LOT to teach me and that that I needed to humble myself and learn from them.

For some reason w/ 2 weeks, or 4 months, or 6 weeks, etc. I thought in my twisted thinking that the reason I kept relapsing and returning to AA was because they NEEDED me to come to Christ.

hahahha God can use anything he wants, even a donkey, He really didn't need me and I needed to learn how to live sober.

Many of the people in AA will eventually come to saving faith in Jesus Christ, but they do NOT need me to tell me they are wrong. Heck, when we go out street evangelising the way we do it, is we PICK on OURSELVES. Example...I wonder how many times a day I sin? I am sure it is in the hundreds or thousands but for sake of illustration say I am having a really good day and have one bad thought, one sin of omission, and one time I yell at my child....etc.

See, they don't need to be TOLD or called out on anything, they need the gospel...Heaven is a free gift, God is merciful, love, but just...etc. But ALWAYS I ask permission, May I share w/ you how you can know for certain that when you die you have eternal life? if they say NO, I DO NOT SHARE! PERIOD. then i can never be accused of shoving the bible down their throat. I also never share in a meeting, and I only share one on one and afterwards.

there is more info oon Evangelism Explosion | EE International

Remain humble, tread lightly but share w/ those who want to hear. My experience is 1 in 10 want to hear more, so do not get discouraged, NEVER argue and NEVER debate. Just move on. PRAY, PRAY, PRAY! for them too!

[Lily]

Originally Posted by hydrogirl

"Let all the brothers, however, preach by their deeds."
- St. Francis of Assissi

This somehow became morphed into a quote which actually cannot be attributed to St. Francis as "Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words."

But I always liked it anyway. If you live your life and recovery joyfully, people will be drawn to that.

The reason I never personally liked this quote is because prior to my salvation I met many Christians and wanted what they had. However, they never did share the gospel w/ me. The good news. So what I thought was that salvation was something that came through good works and being a good person like them. I was missing the mark big time and could never "stay good" so I gave up for 7 yrs or so....became a drug addict....etc. Later when I HEARD the message of the gospel I received it. The good news being that Jesus Christ when he died on the cross he said, "It is finished" the debt had been paid in full. My sin debt had been paid by Jesus Christ and what he did for me.

No where in scriptures does it tell us to share the gospel w/ our good works and our deeds. It commands us to preach the gospel.

[fuster]

OK. First off, "born again" is a term of art only used by some Christians. I am not "born again", I was born a Christian and still am one. I was not "reborn".

Second, I minister to my community and spread my faith to others by what I do, not by what I say. Trying to put this on recovering people who have a hard time understanding what it means to have a close relationship with God is sending them the wrong message. It is telling them you want to cram it down their throat. The 12 Steps make it abundantly clear that each recovering person has to choose how they come to believe in a higher power. I don't tell any of them they have to do it my way, I share with them how my way is working well for my recovery. If they get curious and maybe want to come to my church to see what all the fun and laughter is about, great. If they don't, that is fine too. I try to keep my own course and share in a diplomatic way that does not come across as a sales pitch.

[hydrogirl]

Originally Posted by Lily

The reason I never personally liked this quote is because prior to my salvation I met many Christians and wanted what they had. However, they never did share the gospel w/ me. The good news.

I think the point I did not make clear is that if someone is drawn to the way I live my life and approaches me about it, THEN I can talk to them about the gospel.

[NoelleR]

"...First off, 'born again' is a term of art only used by some Christians. I am not 'born again', I was born a Christian and still am one. I was not 'reborn'..."

Funny, I always thought 'born again' was a term Jesus used...........


NoelleR

[Lily]

Originally Posted by fuster

OK. First off, "born again" is a term of art only used by some Christians. I am not "born again", I was born a Christian and still am one. I was not "reborn".

Born again is used in John 3:3 Where Jesus is talking to Nicodemas. Yes, it is scrirptural, right here: Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

I was born to my mother and I was born again on May 8, 1989.

Lily