"Super" sin?

[Gertiegirl]

Hi everyone, just popped in to introduce myself. I'm a Christian, effectively still new in my faith (was baptised July 2006) and I am an alcoholic.

I confessed this to my Pastor not long after my baptism and asked him to help me, and in the 2 years since - we have tried everything. Deliverance ministry, spiritual warfare, the church paid for me to attend counselling, and my Pastor spent 6 months working intensly with me thru a 12 step programme. All these things have provided short term release from the drink, but eventually I always return to it. Two days ago I was forced to confess I was drinking again and things have blown up in my face. Through finally facing the consequences of my drinking - God has no given me a genuine desire to stop. So here I am -again-, searching for recovery. My Pastor has now told me in no uncertain terms that I MUST see a drug and alcohol (specific) counsellor, I MUST attend AA, I MUST be accountable, keeping a drink diary and being in contact with his wife weekly and meeting with him monthly, and I MUST attend The Alpha course again to strengthen the foundations of my faith. If I slip on any of these things he will in conjenction with my husband have me assessed for a stint in a residential facility (Salvation Army Bridge programme). I couldn't stand to spend that time away from my children. I am a completely funtioning and controlled alcoholic, I do not drink during the day, don't drive drunk, my children are well cared for -happy and loved. I am actively involved in church life groups and day to day you wouldn't know I have this problem. It rears its ugly head when the kids are safetly tucked up in bed, thats when I being pouring anywhere up to 3L of wine into my body. Ive been doing this on and off for 8 years. More on then off. I know that this is drawing me further and further from God, this is a stronghold of the enemy and I know if I continue it is going to get progrssively worse. I know that the time is near that I will begin drinking earlier in the day, and taking greater and greater risks. God is calling me to lay this down, and be dead to it - and with support, Im praying I will succeed this time. I've come here looking for further support, from Christians who understand what it is like to battle this "super" sin as many Christians seem to view it - and who can pray for me and help me to lean into God more when this gets rough, as it inevitably will.

Thanks to everyone reading this, that alone shows you care.
Luvvies in Christ.

[BUTTERFLY-7]

now thats a church I will like to attend God Bless you
I need all that in my church

[cmc]

Hi Gertie and welcome to SR. I don't have any personal experience with alcoholism myself, but there are many here on SR who do. There are some who visit this forum from time to time but the majority of those with alcohol problems use the forums designated just for recovery from alcoholism.

I hope you will continue to drop by here as well. We have a good group of people here.

Whether your drinking is a "Super Sin" or not...I am not to judge and can find no biblical basis for that statement. All sin causes pain and destruction and that's bad enough for me whether it's a little 'white lie' ranging to far more grievous acts...it's all sin.

From my experience with friends and family and in all my contacts here on SR plus at open AA meetings I have attended....the conclusion is that nobody can make a person want to get sober- except that person themself.

I hope you are ready to do this on your own. If pastors, spouses, loving parents or prayer groups could make people get sober...we would not need this site.

What got my son clean was his having to face some pretty serious consequences. I've heard it called 'research' but whatever it is ...it takes what it takes for someone to say 'enough'.

I hope you are ready to say 'enough' right now before things get worse for you and your family. I pray that you will find the desire to stop- because alcoholism is a progressive and deadly disease.

Have you considered going to AA? It's a good program.

[MNGirlyGirl]

Many of us share your battle. I will keep you in my prayers.

[Hope]

You are in my prayers. God will get you through this.

You already have the victory in him. The battle is his. Hand it all over and keep your eyes focused on him and grab on to all the help that is being offered and available to you. God is sending you these opportunities to help you.

Don't give up!

[best]

Welcome to SR

I would need to agree with your pastor.

He has shared what he knows and has maybe opened your eyes to the sin.
What you would be needing now may be a group of people that have the answers because we have been there and done that and know how we got out.

AA meetings can avail you much needed support and answers.
Celebrate Recovery groups can be an added support as well (they are Christian based)
Salvation Army has helped many also.

You say God has not given you the desire to quit.
Well guess what... You need want it yourself and then ask Him for the strength and will to quit.

AA will help you find answers. The only requirement they ask... a desire to quit.
If you look at the harm excessive drinking can cause and start to look at such drinking as a sin that it is (harm against self thus a sin against God) Maybe you will start to find that desire. Read the book of John. Yes you may have read it many times before but as you read...think on the verses that say... A Christian is... and a Christian does not...

[Gertiegirl]

LOL, if only I could find the edit function! When I said I no have the desire - because of a typo - that could be taken as not - or as I intended, as NOW. I have the desire to stop, and working towards it. But as I am active in my addiction right now (I think my treatment plan is in the newcomers section) I can not, and should not comment further. Luvvies to all.

[best]

Originally Posted by Gertiegirl

LOL, if only I could find the edit function!

The edit only works for a few minutes after you post. If an edit is needed after that, one of the mods can edit if you like (we are the ones with the bold blue names)

I wish you well in your treatment plan. If you stick with the plan, you can do ok.
Just realized your in New Zealand, not the states. Same AA and it should be the same Salvation Army and we both know it is the same Lord Jesus.

Prayers for you as you walk this path.

I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.

[Lily]

Gertie Girl,

No matter how much you think you would miss your kids, I do not think a residential treatment facility would be a bad thing. I went thru EXACTLY what you are going thru in 1989 (got saved) and in 1990 kept messing up. It was in April of 1991 I went to the in house treatment. (My Pastor sent me there for the sake of my 2 yr old son)

I got out a few months later and NEVER WENT back to (METH). Sure it was hard there, but I was sick of falling off the wagon. I was sick of living the double life, I was sick of letting everyone down. But most importantly I finally reached a point in my life where I was sick of greiving the Holy Spirit. I was sick of disappointing the Lord. Have you reached that point? Have you really? Can you dig deep and really ask the Lord what is best or are you still in that spot where you would just miss your kids? You have got to be willing fully to get sober.

As your sister in Christ I am asking you honestly are you willing to humble yourself or is God going to have to do it?

And finally, the Lord used me big time in rehab. I was the only Christian woman there, I prayed a few women to receive Christ. you could use it as a ministry as well, just like I use the NA program today!

Once you get sober your relationship with the Lord is gonna take off! (not to mention your family, and your church)

Praying for you! Sheila

[splendra]

Maybe part of your recovery would be an exercise in acceptance; accepting forgiveness and/or acceptance that you may not be able to get clean without help.

I mention accepting forgiveness because sometimes we can know something is true in our head but we block it from reaching our heart or we know something in our heart and we forget to inform our head and this could mean we need to surrender to a process in order to remove the block.

I don't see how anyone can be fully functional and aware if they drink all night so don't delude yourself into thinking that because you wait until the baby is asleep to start drinking that it makes it okay. No doubt you have had a few hangovers while taking care of your child and believe me one who has a hangover is not fully functional....

Accept the help while the offer is on the table.

[Gertiegirl]

OK - now I have a brand new problem... My husband is not a Christian, I attend services by myself with the kids, and I have developed relationships with the people there. My husband is NOT an alcoholic, he very rarely drinks. He is an everyday guy with a great nature, who has a good job and reputation and is pretty protective and defensive of me and his family. Unfortunately, he was away on business last week, so it was only the weekend that I had a chance to talk to him about my Pastors views. He is outraged. I know I have been honest with my Pastor in the past, and less honest with my husband, but I have been honest with him (hubby) this time, and he is outraged that my Pastor thinks he can insist these things upon me, without even consulting "him". As he lives with me and has known me and my drinking for 13 years, he feels like a phone call from my Pastor was in order. My Pastor has only met hubby once, and hubby is fuming that the Pastor thinks he would let me put the children in harms way. My hubby wants me to go back to my past Christian counsellor instead of all the other stuff because he could see alot more progress through that - he believes I only went downhill when I stopped seeing her (a month ago). He knows me best - and unfortunately he has told me to either find a new church with a less judgemental Pastor or I can no longer take his children to Sunday school..... What do I do? I know my Pastor is doing things out of love and concern, but my husband cannot see that...

[best]

Hello Gertiegirl

As a pastor in training, I would need agree with your pre-christian husband. Based on what you posted, your husband has your best interest at heart. If your other church is a bible believing, bible teaching church, I would fully agree. If your other church was missing the mark and not teaching from the bible...that would be different and I would say look for another church that does teach from the bible.
From what you posted, your husband has your best interest and he is not telling you to stay out of church but return to the other church. The bible says a wife should honor her husband and by doing so, may be an example that brings him to know the Lord.
Honor your husband... to a degree that you hold your honor to the Lord.
Some pastors would go as far as say...if a husband says stay away from all churches....do as he says.
I disagree. We need honor the Lord first and by showing honor to our spouse, we show honor to God but we also need to show our honor to God to our spouse. Can't serve two masters but we can serve the Lord and show his love to others along the way.

Now as a husband that is married to a pre-christian wife...
I know some of the things you may deal with in that area. What helps me the most is the verse that says... In all you do, do it as though doing it unto the Lord. As we may go the extra mile for our spouse, remember we are doing so in a manner of being Christ to them. By our example of showing them Christ (we may be the only Jesus they see in their day), we may help guide them to know and accept the Lord's love one day.

Your husband needs learn something as well.
Your drinking is your issue to deal with. He can support you and suggest what he thinks is a better way but you are the one who needs make your choices. The pastor does not or did not need call him. You did things right... You shared your thoughts and plan with him. It isn't the pastor's job to do that.

.

[Gertiegirl]

Funny, its kind of interesting with me... My husband was a Christian, till he met me. He was active in youth groups etc, and then I pulled him away, in our teens. He has seen this attitude before and reacted to it. So he wont tolerate what he finds judgemental in any way. He is stubborn in that. The past counsellor - that was only a month ago, (we moved from our home town to here a few years ago, I found Christ, and he sittin there thinking- what the???) My hubby hasnt been near a church for 13 years but he remembers and thought things were great. But he is so good at remembering. This is setting him against church, completely, again - I just want to avoid that!!!

[cmc]

Gertie,
In all the years of experience with having addicted family members I have learned this: the responsibility to seek recovery must come from the person seeking it; and the recovery work must be done only by the person seeking it

Until that person (you) is entirely ready to take care of it on their own- nobody else's involvement will be of any (lasting) help. What is the difference where you go to church...in relation to your recovery?

I can't work somebody else's program for them no matter how much I care or how much I know (or don't know) about alcoholism. Spiritual guidance and loving support of a spouse is wonderful....but as I said earlier, that is not what it takes to get to a solution.

As long as everyone else is 'managing' somebody else and putting their two cents worth of advice, that person in recovery will not be able to make the much needed efforts to change.

I learned as a Stephen's Minister, as a member of Alanon and by going to counseling myself, that I was a classic enabler. If I could fix it...then it wasn't really that bad after all was it? (denial)

I was busy at working out ways to help everybody's problems instead of handing it over first to God...and leaving things up to the person whose business I was interfering in. After all, I thought I knew what they needed....and didn't give them the credit or the dignity to choose their own path.

The only person who is really in charge of where you go to church, how you seek recovery...or if you are really serious about recovery is ....you, not your pastor, his wife or your husband. Getting sober 'for the sake of the kids' is a great plan too...but how is that working?

It has to be something that you do for yourself. Your life and your family depend upon that, and I believe that God lead you here to this forum so that you could find the help you need.

I would hope that, Christian or not, your husband would seek out some help by going to Alanon meetings. Your drinking is a problem and it appears that he is in denial about how serious your drinking is at this time...not to mention the progression of it.

I have attended Alanon many years and although I didn't cause, couldn't control or cure my loved ones' addictions....I did learn how to contribute to their recovery by changing my own attitudes and actions. I also learned how to stop doing things that were counterproductive and how to offer them useful support.

I'm praying for you and hope you will keep posting here.

[Ken777]

Hello Gertie--

I just wanted to let you know that residential treatment is not the end of the world. Three and a half years ago I hit bottom with my "quite under control" drinking and realized that I needed help. My family and friends helped me find a treatment facility. It was the best thing I ever did for myself. I am not saying that everything in my life is great now-- quite the contrary. I am facing some of the biggest challenges in my life. But I am facing them sober.

I hope you will give residential treatment consideration. Keep us posted.

By the way, I think you were really supposed to see this post. After I wrote it (the first time) the electricity surged and my computer lost power before I could hit the submit button. So, I rewrote it. Satan's wiles are many...

Ken

[Lily]

I am happy you came to Christ! what a blessing. I too think you should listen to your husband and make a decision in your heart to quit drinking. Go to AA and get a sponsor. Go all the way! Pray for your husband too, that he would return to Christ.

Sheila

[dryczar]

Hi Gertiegirl,

I've been a committed Christian for many years; vs by vs expositional teaching, sprit filled worship and lots of fellowship with strong believers. Alcoholism snuck up on me 7 years ago and I didn't know where to go to get help. My church and my Christian friends dismissed my drinking as "weakness" and "sin". I guess I see their point and I agree, in part. To me I'd have to add that I began to compromise thereby becoming dishonest (a lier) with God (and myself). I believe that I have/had a soul sickness ...a spiritual malady. I really enjoyed reading your story ...I am so excited that you came to Christ and that you have such a wonderful pastor who seems to have offered really cool advise. As far as the drink being a "big sin" ...I think you may want to consider that this sin too has been paid for. For me, I had to "grow up" and be honest, and admit that I was and am powerless; thereby becoming dependent on God and other people. Wow! I am forced to think of others. That's so Christ-like. What a gift to be forced (in Love) to discover that life is about helping/serving others. Hey; I lost "my" life and gained a much fuller life! Ha! What a nice trick - God is so smart. Enjoy the ride - a life beyond "your" wildest dreams. <>< will pray ><>

Gertiegirl wrote
I've come here looking for further support, from Christians who understand what it is like to battle this "super" sin as many Christians seem to view it - and who can pray for me and help me to lean into God more when this gets rough, as it inevitably will.

[respektingme]

Gertie, I have no real advice for you. I'm married to a very successful alcoholic. His sponsor and several others have told me he won't stop until he loses me and the kids. He's never had a consequence. He has himself very convinced, as you seem to be, that he can handle it. He doesn't drink until the kids are in bed. He has several rules on himself. He doesn't drink and drive, etc, etc. But he is breaking his own rules now. He doesn't appear convinced that this is a progressive disease. The last time he broke his rules, I called home from the grocery store and he said he was drunk and I needed to get home ASAP. The kids (11 and 8) were outside playing with friends and he was in bed, trashed out of his head. He is losing control, and I expect that until he stops for good, he will continue to lose control. I mean, look at the odds. The odds are that he will experience progression in this disease, as most do. I hope you are convincing yourself that you can do the same, and I hope it doesn't take losing your child and husband to convince you. Because I am shoring up plans for my exit. I've told my AH as much, and he says he believes me, but I don't think he will until we are truly gone. But once we are, I'll be so glad to get out of this mesh of dysfunction, that I don't think we'll ever get back together whether he quits or not. And quite honestly, I think our situation is very common.

As for what your pastor says and your husband says, you have the addiction. You have to take the lead in your treatment if you really want to quit. If that means that you are willing to do as your pastor suggests, then your husband should understand it's best for all of you.

[rozied]

Dear Gertie, I haven't had to fight the battle you are facing, but I did fight a battle yrs ago with another addictive substance. I went to The Lord MANY TIMES & just kept begging Him to deliver me. He finally did, it happens in His time. not ours.
Keep asking God to set you free & He will.
Love,
Diane

[IO Storm]

Gertie...

Best gave you the "best" advice ..as he does...about the spouse to spouse

relationship in this matter.

The important thing is...that you have been entirely honest with your huband

about how much you have been drinking? Does (he) know you tuck the

kiddies in during the day and then commence to drink? If he is not armed

with this information...of course..he will defend you to another. And that is

not fair to a pastor who kows your true story.

So...

cmc gave some more excellent advice..

The only person who is really in charge of where you go to church, how you seek recovery...or if you are really serious about recovery is ....you, not your pastor, his wife or your husband. Getting sober 'for the sake of the kids' is a great plan too...but how is that working?

Please be honest...

When (you) are really teady to stop...you will.

And the Lord will be there to help....I know....

This is my seventh time...and He met me in a miraculous way after I lost all.

I pray you do not have to fall that far......

In His Love,



IO

[Mercedes1]

Hi, first of all, I want to thank you for your post. I can relate mostly to the part you have so much faith and (on the surface) are doing everything you can to quit seeking God.

But here is the good news: there is something more. You know the part in the Bible where the disciples came to Jesus and asked him why they could not banish a particular demon from a boy? His answer was that "this demon" req'd fasting and prayer. I believe that means much more than simple not eating and praying but truly seeking God's face in a way unknown to all others.

I also went to my pastor,,he read scripture to me (read it before), prayed with me (continue to do that), made myself accountable to himself and others (been there)..yet I still walked away KNOWING I was not free.

The truth that will set you free is actually a realization of smaller truths. You can be set free (the greater truth) as they said. However, what the pastors, churches and other non-aclchoholics preach to you they only know the end result. They dont have the "map".

Let me ask you..what other areas in your life do you have a "strength" over that others do not? Say eating for example. You can walk away from that extra cheese cake where another person may need to not buy it at all. There saying "no" is not the same as yours. So for you (in that example - suggesting you have no problem controlling eating) ..the "truth" that sets you free is simply not eating too much.

This is where the pastor left it with me. To him...just claim that truth..your free. Don't drink too much or not at all. That was NOT enough.

There is so much more to God concerning this truth. People in your same condition - sharing pain is biblical. Paul, for example, referenced quite a bit that he went through certain trials and tribulations so that WE CAN RELATE TO HIM and that HE COULD HELP US. Certain people and only certain people have gifts that only can be rec'vd if they have been there. Think of a cave noone has EVER escaped. Would you call the Pope, Donald Trump, your Pastor, the President of United States or would you call the only man/woman that has ever escaped? That person ..no amount of money or prestige is needed..only that he got through.

AA is that place. It is not just a bunch of whiners. These people (you go and find the ones that have what you want)..have their LIVES of living proof they made it through. You will find people just like you, worse than you or maybe totally different but they share one thing in common..they relate and they have over come. I am one of those. I finally surrendered and went..and found I grew closer to God then ever. Those great truths were actually small steps of smaller truths that helped me every breath..when I was home, what to do next, how to think..it all worked. Just saying.,.no temptation is beyond what you are able..all while running to the bottle didnt seem to go over well. Now I think of the others that just shared that at a meeting and what THEY did to over come the urges...how to perceive different emotions, situations..how to "think"..how to ACT..what to do next...at that moment.

Principals, truths, SOLUTIONS were presented to me and all I did in the beginning was go. Then..all those wonderful sayings in the Bible and what my pastor shared had so much deeper meaning and POWER. God had a step by step process..He never expected me to say a bunch of scripture and hope for the best. He had a plan.

Don't give up...there is hope. Find an AA group...try it. That is my recommendation.