Can a person lose their salvation? - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

Hope · 02-10-2008, 02:13 PM

I was told today that a Christian can lose their salvation and if a person once knew God and turned back to sin, God would take his Spirit away from them and give them a wicked spirit. Talking about in Romans 1 God will reject us for our sins.

I thought that was why Jesus was sent to the Cross for us. Because we all fall short of the glory of God and our sin debt was paid in full if a person accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior.

To think that a Christian can lose their salvation has me scared because how would you know if you've lost it or not.

stone · 02-10-2008, 02:25 PM

Surely the parable of the Prodigal son is the opposite of that?

And the parable of the shepherd and the lost sheep too?

CAPTAINZING2000 · 02-10-2008, 02:27 PM

God's love for us is unconditional

As a parent, I get mad at my kids but, I never stop loving them

Same as God. We do things that are disappointing to him but, he'll never stop loving us.

Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

It's our sin that makes us feel unworthy of God's love. The guilt and remorse that causes us to drink and love to remove ourselves from God's love.

We may turn our back on God but, God will never desert us. Have Faith

**best** · 02-10-2008, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hope4life

To think that a Christian can lose their salvation has me scared because how would you know if you've lost it or not.

Just by being concerned about it tells me where your heart is at and I would say...You are safe.

There are basicly two forms of teaching on the subject and I believe in the lost salvation understanding. Holiness teachings vs Calvanistic teachings.

We had some fine debates about it at school and the outcome always came out the same... If both groups follow the teachings of what they teach...both groups come out with Grace abound in their life.
The book of John is filled with... A Christian is.... and A Christian doesn't...
By the grace of God and by His strength, we can strive for and one day reach such perfection... I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.

So... just by asking and holding a concern about such... your heart shows as being in the right place. Live each day as you are living for Christ and you should have nothing to worry about.

Lily · 02-10-2008, 04:17 PM

I do not think a person who is truly born again can lose his salvation. My reason for this thinking is because I am not saved by what I do or what I do not do, (works related) but in Believing on Jesus Christ alone for my salvation. Since I know I am a sinner saved by faith alone and by Christ alone, and not because of what Sheila does or does not do, I cannot lose it. I know I am a sinner and I sin everyday in thought word and deed.

However I also know that sin is what keeps me from the Lord. When I am drinking and using I do not want to worship The Lord. It isn't that he has left me, it is I have chosen to move away from him.

So if you keep in mind that it is not what you do or don't do, and all about what Jesus did on the cross, then you are not lost. Also keep in mind you may not "feel" saved, but that you cannot trust your feelings. The best thing to do is to get in the word of God. Hebrews tells us that Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. So dig in! Start in the book of John and read one chapter a day! Find a good bible believing church if you do not have one and start fellowshiping with other believers. You will be sooo blessed.

Blessing in the name of the LORD, Sheila <><

CAPTAINZING2000 · 02-10-2008, 04:29 PM

The bible also says

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out

We all sin and should ask forgiveness.

Think, the closer we walk with God the farther we'll be from sin.

Doesn't hurt to make amends for those we do wrong against just as we ask God forgiveness as well

Dean62 · 02-10-2008, 05:08 PM

I don't think you have anything to worry about either. My understanding is you can only lose salvation if you reject Christ which is different then returning to sin.

***cmc*** · 02-10-2008, 05:34 PM

Hope,
Here is a link with some helpful information on this topic.
Bible.org: Assurance of Eternal Security

Steve Brown and Erwin Lutzer also offer some good material on this topic.

Jesus said in Matthew 10: 27-29:
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them all to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My hand."

angelgirl · 02-17-2008, 03:49 AM

Sorry,, I don't mean to scare anyone,,, I am also looking for answers.

I was always taught when I was younger, that a christian can lose his/her salvation,
by turning away from God. There is something about hardening of the heart??
I will look for this in the bible, unless someone finds it first
Prayers,
Becky

sugarssweetpea · 02-17-2008, 01:16 PM

I believe what happens when you turn back to sin is that your heart becomes hardened to the convictions of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that you can lose your salvation if of course you truely meant it when you asked Jesus to be Lord of your life. I do not know where it is in the Bible, but I will look.

Rickery · 02-17-2008, 01:33 PM

I believe that we can't really know or predict what our higher power will choose to do at any moment of time. After being led to a special land from bondage in Egypt, the early Jews managed to anger God which led to the destruction of the Temple and their being led back into captivity. Later, they returned only to be dispersed again.

I say that to say this. If you do the best you can on a daily basis, recognize the things you did wrong during the day (and make amends), and trust/believe in a loving God, I personally believe that we are gonna be fine.

My opinion is similar to those who have posted before me, with the exception that I try to be really, really, careful about making statements of faith with too much certainty. My Lord Jesus Christ may have thought years ago I was going to follow him as I should have and yet I did not. I have to accept whatever decisions are made about me without complaint or excessive expectation.

This caution about saying "what is" and "what is not" is based on a 30 year prayer study of many religions and beliefs, and is seems that the more I know, the less I know. But I am okay with that.

I don't worry about my salvation, what happens when I die, or even what people will wear to the funeral. I just find a way to get on my knees many times daily to give thanks, then go out into the world and serve others. My God and I don't keep score on too much else.

Peace.

Rickery

***cmc*** · 02-17-2008, 04:46 PM

In cases like this...wouldn't it be best to err on the safe side? I can't lose by striving to do my best to stay out of trouble and when I do fall into sin to confess it and repent asap.

Unfortunately I've known quite a few who treat the idea of 'once saved always saved' as a reason to willfully sin. That is not biblical either. For those who still have questions on this topic, I'll refer once more to the link I posted earlier and suggest a study of Romans and Hebrews. There are plenty of books about both sides of this issue so that anyone can choose what to believe about it.

In my situation I've been a Christian for about 75% of my lifetime....and I'd be a boldfaced liar to tell anyone that I've led a sinless life or that I've always repented immediately after committing sin. Becoming a Christian as such a young age prevented me from a world of trouble that I was headed for! I just don't believe that once I've made the commitment and truly believed---that my Father would cast me into the pit for my flawed human nature.

The effects of sin are destructive whether I am saved or not....so like the apostle Paul, I will continue to confess that "I practice the very evil that I do not wish" (Romans 7:19) All the while my desire is to be a follower of Jesus to the best of my ability.

There are several aspects and/or topics within the realm of the Christian faith where many will differ. I prefer to remain united to my Christian family. Whether one believes in eternal security or not...I will quote our buddy, toad: "I love you and there's not a darn thing you can do about it!"

toad · 02-17-2008, 07:41 PM

They once asked Oral Roberts what he thought about "Once saved, always saved."

He said, "I never think about it."

trooper913 · 02-18-2008, 04:15 PM

Although I have made many mistakes...I am sure of one thing....My salvation. Faith alone in Christ alone. Nothing else.. It brings up a huge debate but the bible clearly states many times that faith alone in Christ is all we must have to be saved. Works done through the flesh are but filthy rags. Reversionism or back sliding can cause one to feel this way... 1 john 1:9 states that if we confess our sins to God he will forgive us.... And will cleanse us from all unrightousness. But that is just step one.... Confess means to acknowlege... Don't have to feel guilty.... There are a few really solid teachers still out there.....Hit me up if you wanna know of some!

trooper913 · 02-19-2008, 05:03 PM

sorry to post again but I thought about this today...Sin is not just an outward act. Like drinking, gambling, stealing...etc. It also entails the mental. Mental sins are what bring us to overt sins. Different categories of sin are ignored. Some put on a good show and claim to never sinned. Yet God calls them a liar .....For all have sinned and fall short...Didn't say some of you..Or just those on the left side...ALL....Sons of adam...All we can do is follow what the word of God teaches......

Peace.

trooper913 · 02-19-2008, 05:04 PM

Be led by the spirit and not the flesh..........SARX

Hope · 02-19-2008, 09:04 PM

Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts on this!

Mercedes1 · 02-22-2008, 04:00 PM

Sin is a condition. The acts of sin are the symtoms that reep consequences. I was explained that Jesus paid the price for the "condition" so its a done deal. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God..not heaven or HELL, etc. etc..

Eternal security is not an excuse to continue sinning its a reason to live thankfully. Your choice. As someone already said..the fruits of sin are the same whether you believe or not. We will have "rewards" in heaven..that is where the obedience (i think) comes into play in the end..but not the salvation.

The only question that confuses all of the above is the "unforgiveable" sin? Sin against the spirit? I would suggest that is suicide but my "eternal security" counselor told me even suidice is forgiveable..nothing can come between you and the love of God..not life or DEATH. Sooooo, what is that?

trooper913 · 02-25-2008, 04:33 PM

I believe the unforgivable sin would be denial of Christ. To absolutely reject the gospel. Yet There are alot of lies in the gospel being forced down peoples throats all over the place. Everyone sins, everyday...I feel that when we forget to aknowledge these sins and admit it to God is when we start our decline. The devil wants us to fear not truely being saved...Then we are in his camp........

Lily · 02-25-2008, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trooper913

sorry to post again but I thought about this today...Sin is not just an outward act. Like drinking, gambling, stealing...etc. It also entails the mental. Mental sins are what bring us to overt sins. Different categories of sin are ignored. Some put on a good show and claim to never sinned. Yet God calls them a liar .....For all have sinned and fall short...Didn't say some of you..Or just those on the left side...ALL....Sons of adam...All we can do is follow what the word of God teaches......

Peace.

Amen!

There are many different kinds of sin. ppl tend to think of sin like big things, robbery, murder, using, etc... however we do know that sin is also thoughts and attitudes. Even not doing what we know we should do is a sin, the sin of omission. sin is anything that falls short of God's perfect standard. We all sin daily in thought word and deed.

i also believe that using and drinking begins in the mind. with Christ we can choose NOT to go there but re-direct our thoughts.

Dean62 · 02-25-2008, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheila77

We all sin daily in thought word and deed.

Sin is anything that separates us from God.
Isaiah 59:1-2
1 Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

toad · 02-26-2008, 08:25 PM

Ain't grace wonderful?

God does for me what I could not do for myself.

02-10-2008, 02:13 PM	#1 (permalink)
Hope Getting Better All The Time Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Recovering Posts: 3,289	Can a person lose their salvation? I was told today that a Christian can lose their salvation and if a person once knew God and turned back to sin, God would take his Spirit away from them and give them a wicked spirit. Talking about in Romans 1 God will reject us for our sins. I thought that was why Jesus was sent to the Cross for us. Because we all fall short of the glory of God and our sin debt was paid in full if a person accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior. To think that a Christian can lose their salvation has me scared because how would you know if you've lost it or not.

02-10-2008, 02:25 PM	#2 (permalink)
stone Guru Stone Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 12,388	Surely the parable of the Prodigal son is the opposite of that? And the parable of the shepherd and the lost sheep too? __________________ . . There is the path of joy and there is the path of pleasure. Pondering on them, the wise (one) chooses the path of joy; the fool takes the path of pleasure. ~Katha Upanishad 1:2:1

02-10-2008, 02:27 PM	#3 (permalink)
CAPTAINZING2000 ZING Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 5,590	God's love for us is unconditional As a parent, I get mad at my kids but, I never stop loving them Same as God. We do things that are disappointing to him but, he'll never stop loving us. Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: It's our sin that makes us feel unworthy of God's love. The guilt and remorse that causes us to drink and love to remove ourselves from God's love. We may turn our back on God but, God will never desert us. Have Faith __________________ LIFE IS GOD'S GIFT TO YOU WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE IS YOUR GIFT TO GOD

02-10-2008, 04:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
CAPTAINZING2000 ZING Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: ILLINOIS Posts: 5,590	The bible also says Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out We all sin and should ask forgiveness. Think, the closer we walk with God the farther we'll be from sin. Doesn't hurt to make amends for those we do wrong against just as we ask God forgiveness as well __________________ LIFE IS GOD'S GIFT TO YOU WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR LIFE IS YOUR GIFT TO GOD

02-17-2008, 03:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
angelgirl You're never alone!! Join Date: May 2003 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,195	Sorry,, I don't mean to scare anyone,,, I am also looking for answers. I was always taught when I was younger, that a christian can lose his/her salvation, by turning away from God. There is something about hardening of the heart?? I will look for this in the bible, unless someone finds it first Prayers, Becky __________________ ™ Don't tell God how BIG your addiction is, tell your addiction, how BIG our GOD is!! Jesus is our teacher and he is our Savior, who takes our prayers and makes them his own.

02-10-2008, 04:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Lily Ephesians 2:8 and 9 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,325 Blog Entries: 3	I do not think a person who is truly born again can lose his salvation. My reason for this thinking is because I am not saved by what I do or what I do not do, (works related) but in Believing on Jesus Christ alone for my salvation. Since I know I am a sinner saved by faith alone and by Christ alone, and not because of what Sheila does or does not do, I cannot lose it. I know I am a sinner and I sin everyday in thought word and deed. However I also know that sin is what keeps me from the Lord. When I am drinking and using I do not want to worship The Lord. It isn't that he has left me, it is I have chosen to move away from him. So if you keep in mind that it is not what you do or don't do, and all about what Jesus did on the cross, then you are not lost. Also keep in mind you may not "feel" saved, but that you cannot trust your feelings. The best thing to do is to get in the word of God. Hebrews tells us that Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God. So dig in! Start in the book of John and read one chapter a day! Find a good bible believing church if you do not have one and start fellowshiping with other believers. You will be sooo blessed. Blessing in the name of the LORD, Sheila <><

02-10-2008, 05:08 PM	#7 (permalink)
Dean62 Constitutionally Incapable Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Salt Lake Posts: 597 Blog Entries: 3	I don't think you have anything to worry about either. My understanding is you can only lose salvation if you reject Christ which is different then returning to sin.

02-10-2008, 05:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
*cmc* Community Greeter Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: FL Posts: 9,998	Hope, Here is a link with some helpful information on this topic. Bible.org: Assurance of Eternal Security Steve Brown and Erwin Lutzer also offer some good material on this topic. Jesus said in Matthew 10: 27-29: "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them all to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My hand."

02-17-2008, 01:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
sugarssweetpea Growing, Learning, Living Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vacationing on earth Posts: 837	I believe what happens when you turn back to sin is that your heart becomes hardened to the convictions of the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that you can lose your salvation if of course you truely meant it when you asked Jesus to be Lord of your life. I do not know where it is in the Bible, but I will look. __________________ But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness and all these things will be given to you as well. ~ Matthew 6:33 Sugarssweetpea

02-17-2008, 01:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
Rickery Rickery Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Greenacres, FL Posts: 2	I believe that we can't really know or predict what our higher power will choose to do at any moment of time. After being led to a special land from bondage in Egypt, the early Jews managed to anger God which led to the destruction of the Temple and their being led back into captivity. Later, they returned only to be dispersed again. I say that to say this. If you do the best you can on a daily basis, recognize the things you did wrong during the day (and make amends), and trust/believe in a loving God, I personally believe that we are gonna be fine. My opinion is similar to those who have posted before me, with the exception that I try to be really, really, careful about making statements of faith with too much certainty. My Lord Jesus Christ may have thought years ago I was going to follow him as I should have and yet I did not. I have to accept whatever decisions are made about me without complaint or excessive expectation. This caution about saying "what is" and "what is not" is based on a 30 year prayer study of many religions and beliefs, and is seems that the more I know, the less I know. But I am okay with that. I don't worry about my salvation, what happens when I die, or even what people will wear to the funeral. I just find a way to get on my knees many times daily to give thanks, then go out into the world and serve others. My God and I don't keep score on too much else. Peace. Rickery

02-17-2008, 04:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
*cmc* Community Greeter Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: FL Posts: 9,998	In cases like this...wouldn't it be best to err on the safe side? I can't lose by striving to do my best to stay out of trouble and when I do fall into sin to confess it and repent asap. Unfortunately I've known quite a few who treat the idea of 'once saved always saved' as a reason to willfully sin. That is not biblical either. For those who still have questions on this topic, I'll refer once more to the link I posted earlier and suggest a study of Romans and Hebrews. There are plenty of books about both sides of this issue so that anyone can choose what to believe about it. In my situation I've been a Christian for about 75% of my lifetime....and I'd be a boldfaced liar to tell anyone that I've led a sinless life or that I've always repented immediately after committing sin. Becoming a Christian as such a young age prevented me from a world of trouble that I was headed for! I just don't believe that once I've made the commitment and truly believed---that my Father would cast me into the pit for my flawed human nature. The effects of sin are destructive whether I am saved or not....so like the apostle Paul, I will continue to confess that "I practice the very evil that I do not wish" (Romans 7:19) All the while my desire is to be a follower of Jesus to the best of my ability. There are several aspects and/or topics within the realm of the Christian faith where many will differ. I prefer to remain united to my Christian family. Whether one believes in eternal security or not...I will quote our buddy, toad: "I love you and there's not a darn thing you can do about it!"

02-17-2008, 07:41 PM	#13 (permalink)
toad Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mountain grove, missouri Posts: 1,076	They once asked Oral Roberts what he thought about "Once saved, always saved." He said, "I never think about it." __________________ Tet Vet PGR member 2007 Road King Classic 96 C.I. Six-speed Vivid black God......... Let You........... be enough for me.

02-18-2008, 04:15 PM	#14 (permalink)
trooper913 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 45	Although I have made many mistakes...I am sure of one thing....My salvation. Faith alone in Christ alone. Nothing else.. It brings up a huge debate but the bible clearly states many times that faith alone in Christ is all we must have to be saved. Works done through the flesh are but filthy rags. Reversionism or back sliding can cause one to feel this way... 1 john 1:9 states that if we confess our sins to God he will forgive us.... And will cleanse us from all unrightousness. But that is just step one.... Confess means to acknowlege... Don't have to feel guilty.... There are a few really solid teachers still out there.....Hit me up if you wanna know of some!

02-19-2008, 05:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
trooper913 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 45	sorry to post again but I thought about this today...Sin is not just an outward act. Like drinking, gambling, stealing...etc. It also entails the mental. Mental sins are what bring us to overt sins. Different categories of sin are ignored. Some put on a good show and claim to never sinned. Yet God calls them a liar .....For all have sinned and fall short...Didn't say some of you..Or just those on the left side...ALL....Sons of adam...All we can do is follow what the word of God teaches...... Peace.

02-19-2008, 05:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
trooper913 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 45	Be led by the spirit and not the flesh..........SARX

02-19-2008, 09:04 PM	#17 (permalink)
Hope Getting Better All The Time Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Recovering Posts: 3,289	Thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts on this!

02-22-2008, 04:00 PM	#18 (permalink)
Mercedes1 Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Florham Park, NJ Posts: 176	Sin is a condition. The acts of sin are the symtoms that reep consequences. I was explained that Jesus paid the price for the "condition" so its a done deal. NOTHING can separate us from the love of God..not heaven or HELL, etc. etc.. Eternal security is not an excuse to continue sinning its a reason to live thankfully. Your choice. As someone already said..the fruits of sin are the same whether you believe or not. We will have "rewards" in heaven..that is where the obedience (i think) comes into play in the end..but not the salvation. The only question that confuses all of the above is the "unforgiveable" sin? Sin against the spirit? I would suggest that is suicide but my "eternal security" counselor told me even suidice is forgiveable..nothing can come between you and the love of God..not life or DEATH. Sooooo, what is that?

02-25-2008, 04:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
trooper913 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 45	I believe the unforgivable sin would be denial of Christ. To absolutely reject the gospel. Yet There are alot of lies in the gospel being forced down peoples throats all over the place. Everyone sins, everyday...I feel that when we forget to aknowledge these sins and admit it to God is when we start our decline. The devil wants us to fear not truely being saved...Then we are in his camp........

02-26-2008, 08:25 PM	#22 (permalink)
toad Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: mountain grove, missouri Posts: 1,076	Ain't grace wonderful? God does for me what I could not do for myself. __________________ Tet Vet PGR member 2007 Road King Classic 96 C.I. Six-speed Vivid black God......... Let You........... be enough for me.

03-08-2008, 09:23 PM	#23 (permalink)
BUTTERFLY-7 FreeSpirit Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Inside My Spirit Posts: 1,280 Blog Entries: 2