What is the deal on these steps?

[Mercedes1]

Ok.. I'd like to get the Christian perspective to the steps. I have been a Christian way longer than AA "member". In fact, my Christianity kept me in many respects from AA. I felt the whole Higher Power concept was blasphemous if you didn't know the true God. Meaning how can a chair be my higher power cuz I want it to be..are people that desperate to believe complete nonsense? Anyway, I also thought the meetings were a trade off to more bondage (alchohol obsession to meeting obession).

However, after a year of going to AA, alot has changed to my perception. More accepting to the AA way, (it helped me grow closer to God actually) as my faith need good orderly direction and to get back to keeping things simple For that, AA is great.

As some of you know I fell last August after 8months largely due to a relationship issue. But honestly feel my decision to drink was like anything else when I feel no direction. At the time I was going to meetings daily, speaking commitments, coffee commitments, using the sponsor the whole 9 yards. I knew my weakness was value and relationships are a trigger. I allowed this relationship to effect me. BUT, when it all came down to it, the sobriety was conditional. And all the "working the program" became useless in the end. I didn't HAVE to drink but I didn't care at the time as I was a emotional mess.

Anyway, Im back now..4months. Technically, though I feel I have over a year of sobriety (less 5days down in August/Sept). Meaning I only lost 5 days in 2007 so of the 365 days in a year, I was sober 360. So my issue with steps is not because I am "new" or don't know AA enough.

My issue now is the steps and sponsor. The one area I have not gotten much out of is the steps beyond 3. I went to a 4th w/shop last spring and it helped alot. However my sponsor was useless through the process. I had to use her for the 5th, and finally did due to the fact you need a person to share with. But it took 4 months to schedule after the 4th because she kept cancelling. Ironically, I was told by "her" that it was very important to do this step immediately following the 4th. So figure that out?

Anyway, the 5th was a joke. I was under the impression, she (my sponsor) would ask me to bring all the work I did in the 4th (my list of names, weaknesses, fears, strenghts etc) - we did all this formally in this w/shop. My sponsor was there in the w/shop herself but basically did her own, she wasnt there to do mine with me.

She never asked to see my book when I showed up for the 5th which I felt was strange since the 5th should be patterns you see in the 4th. How was she to know what it was that I was supposed to "confess" and let go and moreover LEARN FROM? So I show up at her house and basically just start talking, all while she kept looking at her watch and her husband working in her b/yard (which was where we were) to see what he was doing. I was obvioulsy taking her time and she wanted to get this over with.

I started talking to avoid the uncomfortable silence form her. But I knew I was just talking to be talking (surreal experience)...nothing I was saying was anything more than gossip about my life. I kept waiting for her to turn the conversation directionally to what I needed to focus on. Patterns of negative thinking, value. Tools to think better, areas to work on. The net result was I stopped talking 2 hours later and the 5th was basically over as fast as I shut up? 2 weeks later I drank.

anyway, this was back in August. Now I am approaching the steps to do more in the w/shop fashion. Forget the sponsor. And I know enough I need/want direction - to not just do by myself. Its basic human nature 101 (nothing profound or AA related)..anyone can rationalize their thinking if they don't bounce off another person.

As far as my sponsor, she still is my sponsor. I have no intention of firing her. She is well respected in the AA world, EVERYONE loves her but as far as my sponsor and what I feel a sponsor should be to a sponsee I see her as flippant, distracted, unfocused, too absorbed in her own stuff, too busy and basically I never hear from her but now and then. Could I reach out more, probably, but why? Its a 2 way street, I did for the 5th over and over again and that was more painful then it was helpful. The very weakness I have..value and feeling good about myself, was destroyed in the countless "cancels" over every time I wanted to meet with her to expose myself in the most intimate way - sharing my weaknesses with her (supposebably someone I should trust>>??)

anyway, now Im back to the steps again however prefer to do the w/shop route. I sign up for this step meeting, show up and find they have changed the format to be more of an open discussion w/emphasis that the real nuts of step work should be w/sponsor. So basically it is 90 min of "me" sessions of the folk's w/time sharing their experience. But no direction, and constantly the refernce..chk w/your sponsor?

I disagree with this approach and sick of the sponsor thumper mentality. The steps are a guide and with that some what formal. ANYONE that has good sobriety, spiritual fitness can lead a group the same as a sponsor with a sponsee. What if you don't have a good sponsor or simply don't relate?

I am so sick of the sponsor thumpers. they are as bad a bbook thumpers.

You can have a great sales person be a rotten manager. So it is w/sponsors. Sobriety does not make one a good teacher nor guarantees they have what I want to listen. Limiting steps to a sponsor means limiting your direction to one person's opinion and you can't help but look at them for an example. What if they are not what you want? A group eliminates the temptation to take the step work personally to the person presenting and puts it in a formal context of direction with the personality out of it.

So my approach is not another sponsor but direction. I grew tremendously throught the w/shop format in the 4th step. This meeting was supposed to be same thing..come with pen/pad, listen (don't talk) and be guided through ALL steps in 13 weeks. Anything other than basic guiding, yes, do with a sponsor or special someone. That is a given. But the nuts/bolts of steps can be done in a group setting. Basic education is done that way..we call it college? Pen/pencil, listening, hearing tools, having a Q&A at end. Homework limited to just what they tell you to do. It drives you to keep focused, it makes you WANT to go back to finish. But this step meeting I went to last week was all over the place. Only thing different is 1.5 to 1hr. Open discussion blah, blah.

So now I am thinking these steps are just hear say. If you can't approach them formally then they are more an idea then actually necessary. If you can't do them formally in a group, then why is it so necessary to do with one person? How is that possible but a group is not?

Bottom line, a group can give direction. Keep the sober, spiritiually fit people to lead that have extensive skills in sharing the step tools. That is all good. Do anything more intimate with the person of your choice..one of them (leaders) or go somewhere else but again, you don't need to isolate everything else that is group related to a sponosr. You CHEAT those of us that don't have that sponsor relationship. AND why should we have to wait when a group can do it just as good. Noone is inconenieced we all sign up to be there. I am just getting tired of chasing these steps then feeling guilty because I have not done them. - and let's face it..we all get that feeling in the meetings from that that have done them.

Isnt Christianity living the steps anyway>? Maybe I had it right from the get go? I know enough not to hold resentments. To keep my inventory clean. Amends are personal don't buy the confrontation approach. Why am I trying so hard it is is all..nothing.

I am ready to do these but don't care to go find another sponsor. That is too stressful. i just want to do these yet keep meeting resistance.

Anyway, any thoughts. Im more venting than anything esle. So excuse the long windedness.

[todd6138]

I feel your pain I too have about 360 days sobriety in the past year and am enjoying eight months plus of sobriety by the grace of God I adore the aa program and love the grapevine magazine, but do I trust a nonchristian to give me advice in sobriety on how to do the steps? I had a sponsor who wanted me to quit going to church because I wasn't going to go to all the meetings he wanted me too and he said I had no willingness and I was doomed to failure. Then everytime I went to a meeting, he would introduce me as Todd-this guys full of S--t! I became very sick of listening to his harassment of christianity and my program so I left all meetings for good except for alcoholics victorious, which is a christian based aa type 12 step program. However, in these meeetings it is hard to find any one to be a sponsor. However, I do have a prayer partner. So I might suggest at least hooking up with a solid christian to pray with you and have accountability with. I do practice aa principles, I read the literature and I occasionally show up at a meeting. But between church, av and volunteer work i consider that a pretty busy program provided I die daily to Jesus Christ and pray for His will in my life.

[Lily]

Mercedes,

I do hear what you are saying. I do think as Christians we are supposed to be a living example of the steps. I do wonder about the concept of a non-Christian sponser maybe not being such a great idea either. Some ppl in AA/NA are just clean but their language is vulgar, they are selfish, self seeking and addicted to sex or other stuff. I remember when I read my 4th step to my roommate it kind of was depressing. I remember the sexual inventory made me feel dirty cuz I was more promiscuous when using and then I basically had a number on it. Forever ingrained in my mind. I am grateful she never brought it up again and that my current husband has never asked.

I don't know what to say about your sponser. I have not found a sponser yet. I have under 60 days clean and much would rather hang out with ppl from my church than a smokie alano club with my 4 yr. old. wished we had Christian meetings closer to where I live.

Anyway.... hang in there! also glad about your 360 days clean out of 365. No one can take those clean memories away from you, even in the midst of a relapse. I had 7 years, relapsed for a few months when my husband was dying of brain cancer, but I still had many clean wonderful years too.

blessings, Sheila

[toad]

Keep it simple

[JustOneMan]

Thump thump... Page 74, BB

Those of us belonging to a religious denomination which requires confession must, and of course, will want to go to the properly appointed authority whose duty it is to receive it.

[best]

Originally Posted by Mercedes1

Isnt Christianity living the steps anyway>? Maybe I had it right from the get go? I know enough not to hold resentments. To keep my inventory clean. Amends are personal don't buy the confrontation approach. Why am I trying so hard it is is all..nothing.

I am ready to do these but don't care to go find another sponsor. That is too stressful. i just want to do these yet keep meeting resistance.

Anyway, any thoughts. Im more venting than anything esle. So excuse the long windedness.

Christianity is living the steps and more. Going the extra mile. Loving your enemy as much as a friend.

The steps give us a neat package that helps us put a good focus on certain areas of our life.
You have done part of a 5th with me on some issues and have done a 4th as well. I know this because of what you have shared.
Rather then putting a focus on what your sponsor does or doesn't do... putting the focus on striving to do the steps to the best of your ability and as completly as you can would gain you more.
As a Christian and already living the steps to some degree, we are going from the middle of the steps and starting over on step one.
But I know this already, may be our thought. Such a thought would have us not do a step to a full degree in some cases.
Seeing how the steps work because we work them and along with prayer as we ask the Holy Spirit to guide us to areas we may not have thought of in doing the steps a first time... step work becomes a life time of doing them...or as you say...living a Christian life...we should be doing them daily anyway.

Search me Oh Lord and as You find any thing in me that is not to Your likeing, show me and help me change.

At the end of a day, we look over our day and do our own inventory. At the end of our day we should also ask the Lord to look over our day and guide us to what He finds.
What would Jesus do is more then just a bumper sticker. It is a question we should ask ourself every day as we live the steps and more.

[Mercedes1]

Hi, thanks to all of you (and Best, as always you helped me again)... Update: I did go back to the step meeting I didn't like last week to get a second opinion and it was really good. It is still not a formal w/shop but I humbled myself to be open to instruction and the folk's in there (good news is I am blessed with some great spiritual discernment in these folk's) shared some really good stuff. I have no idea if they are Christian (one did have a nasty mouth, but his outlook on living the steps was quite impressive in other areas). I guess you take what you can and leave the rest.

I just needed to reconnect with God and stop complaining. Thanks to all of you.

[todd6138]

Just wanted to clarify that I do not view the whole program of alcoholics anonymous negatively. I have a resentment against a sponsor in aa and that i guess is my fault. I have given thought to what i said and maybe it is time for me to go to some ftf meetings in a again. I have had a really tough weekend and found some useful info on this site on PAWS and feel I meet a lot of that criterion. Anyway I have prayed for strength to not judge nonchristians so harshly for the way they treat me and I sure need help against sin in my life daily. so pray for me and God bless and I thank you for being there for me. I did make it through the weekend without drinking but i felt deressed and miserable not necessarily restless irritable and discontent but hopeless worthless and confused. The Big Book of aa has been a big help for me this weekend especially chapter three.

[best]

Originally Posted by todd6138

Anyway I have prayed for strength to not judge nonchristians so harshly for the way they treat me and I sure need help against sin in my life daily.

How would you treat the newbie addict or alcoholic that comes to you asking for answers?
With grace and understanding yes?

With that same grace and understanding... look upon nonbelievers as...pre-christians rather then non-christians.

Forgive as you have been forgiven.

Tha verse hits home with me many times when dealing with life.

Yikes...You mean "that" much Lord?

and the Lord would smile and say...yes just as I have forgiven you.

Pass it on so others may know Christ.

[todd6138]

I appreciate your posting. I guess what I mostly meant by that would be peole in the meeting attacking christianity but if you want to be a buddhist or an atheist well thats really cool. I do feel the need to stand up for Jesus and not live in this were all ok recovery umbrella. I really just wanted them to let me be who I am and I am far from an outspoken preachy christian during meetings. I let anyone be who they want to be that is their decision. But at least respect mine. I will go back to meetings and try to lead by attraction rather than promotion but I am not everybody's childhood whipping post because they hated the way they were brought up.

[cmc]

Sobriety does not make one a good teacher nor guarantees they have what I want to listen.

So true, and that is why I would be extremely selective in choosing anyone as my sponsor. There is always the option of a temporary sponsor.
I've known many people who are not Christian but would make great sponsors, on the other hand there are some who really love the Lord that for various reasons I would not trust.
I hope you find a way of recovery that works well for you.