my pastor has problems

[riri]

hello everybody, first a short introduction: I am myself a recovered alcoholic (went to a christian therapy center in 1987, therapy took one year).
Since 7 years I'm going to a pentecostal church.
I'm friends with my pastors wife, who has confided in me one month ago.
Her husband, the pastor, is an alcoholic (the drinking problem has been there for years, but has become more acute the last couple of months). This fact is not known in our church, I myself did not know, as during church services, prayer meetings etc... he always was sober. For over one year we are having problems in our church (now, with hindsight, I can say that these problems are related to the alcoholism of our pastor, amongst other things). Two elders have resigned last sunday, as they do not agree with what our pastor is doing (or not doing, since the church lacks direction, straightforwardness, etc.etc.. all things which are normal around an addict). These elders do not know about the alcoholism.
I have told my friend, the pastors wife, that she should talk with the elders (there is still one remaining elder) but she does not want to do something behind her husbands back, which I can understand. She and her husband have contacted somebody from the leadership from another church, and his suggestion was, not to tell the elders.
Now I find this advice wrong, since the elders and a pastor should trust each other and be able to tell each other of their problems.
Secondly, I think that this makes for a scenario : They do not understand me! I do not need to tell anybody in church about my problem. I find this secretivness wrong and hurtful for the remaining elder.
From my own experience as an addict I know that one must learn to take the consequences for oneself and be responsible for oneself.
Now my question for all since I do not quite know how to handle this:
Do you also think it necessary that the remaining elder know what the problem is? My guess is, that the pastor will take the advice of the other pastor and not tell the remaining elder or church members.
As I said, the church is suffering from all this.
How do I handle this?
My pastor knows that I was an addict, he knows that I know about him, but he will not talk about the issue. OK if he does not want to talk about it with me, but surely he should talk about it with the elders.
I do not have a problem with a pastor who is an alcoholic, but I have a problem with a pastor who denies everything and blames others.
What do I do? I really like my friend, and I also like my pastor (who is a nice chap!) but I do not like all this hush-hush, sweeping things under the carpet. My friend, by the way, has set him a limit - he should seek help, or else she will leave the church. I find it difficult to go to church on sundays, listen to a sermon and pretend all is well. I find it difficult that he does not tell the remaining elder.
Please reply
Thanks for your input.
regards, riri

[Omega Man]

My mother had the same problem at her church (my old church). I now live in another state.
An anonymous letter was sent to the pastor, informing him that his problem was becoming well known within the church. The following week he addressed his problem in his sermon, not sure what the topic was. I just remember my mother telling me about it.
He is still the pastor to this day, he officiated my wedding (before coming clean) and baptised my son (after getting sober). I can't wait to visit him and tell him my story now that I'm working on my sobriety.

In your case, perhaps an anonymous letter to the elders would be in order. Just a simple letter explaining the concerns.

[toad]

Welcome to the forum riri, and thanks for sharing your experience.


Have you talked this over with your sponsor?

From my experience I have learned that it is best to not give advice. The Big Book of AA even states that it is best to just relate our experience, strenght and hope. In the book Alcoholics Anonymous there is a chapter on "working with others." It even talks about the alcoholic who has much religious training. It is up to your pastor to determine for himself if he is alcoholic. You can't do it, and his wife can't do it. He might not be an alcoholic, but just a binge drinker, which may or may not be alcoholic.

Confronting an alcoholic with his or her problem with out laying out a planned program of action, might just tick them off, and make it worse.

His wife possibly should attend an Alanon meeting.....they will be able to help.

Here is something to think about.....the more you stir dodo, the more it stinks.

The Big Book states that "probably no human power could have releived our alcoholism, and that God could and would if He were sought."

Pray...................toad

[cmc]

Welcome to the forum, I'm glad you decided to share with us.

I agree with toad's reply and Alanon would be a great help for your friend if she is so inclilned. I highly recommend it.

She and her husband have contacted somebody from the leadership from another church, and his suggestion was, not to tell the elders.
Now I find this advice wrong, since the elders and a pastor should trust each other and be able to tell each other of their problems.
Secondly, I think that this makes for a scenario : They do not understand me! I do not need to tell anybody in church about my problem. I find this secretivness wrong and hurtful for the remaining elder.
From my own experience as an addict I know that one must learn to take the consequences for oneself and be responsible for oneself.
Now my question for all since I do not quite know how to handle this:

There are two issues here. One being about a friend and the other about being a member of a church.

Your friend has decided how she wants to handle things. It really comes down to that.

If things are going on in my church that affect me as a parishoner-or that I disagree with, then I would take the appropriate steps set forth in that particular church's policy. Any church member has that right, just as they do to leave if things aren't being done according to those rules.

Not knowing what the rules are at your church...or if there are any regarding something like this I could not comment. I've belonged to churches without clearcut policies on things like this, but there was always a consensus by leadership regarding what action to take.

I hope your pastor gets the help he needs and will pray for you to decide what you need to do.

[best]

A pastor should have an accountability partner or group. The elders are not that. The elders are accountable to the church family and the pastor.
It is up to me to seek out the support and help from my accountabilty partner or group. If I don't have such a group...I am walking about without the needed tools for doing my job. My group or partner would be the only ones that should confront me and hold me accountable, as I would give such permissions to him or them.

As for my relationship with the church... if I am not doing my job correctly... the church board would need deal with that.
The alcoholism and how I do my job are two separate issues (though they are tied together)

What I would say is the best thing to do... continue being a friend and support for the wife of the pastor. Suggest that she give Al Anon a try and maybe she could suggest to her husband the idea of a peer group or accountability partner to her husband.
Pastors are humans the same as any one else but many times they stand alone because of their position. For him to beat this and find recovery... the church will gain a man that will have that church on fire for the Lord.

An added idea... People don't need know the what or why but you could still gather together a group and ask them to pray for the pastor and his wife...daily.
The Lord does listen to our every prayer.

[Lily]

Riri,

I agree with those who said to pray for your pastor. I really think that Pastors are attacked even more than regular people if they are preaching the uncompromised word of God. I think also the steps placed forth in Matthew 18 should be applied here, but since his wife told you and now you know, don't tell anyone else. Just pray! Pray the Lord would raise someone up to confront him in love. Perhaps someone from the leadership over him?

Pastors are human too, and for me, since I am such a HUGE sinner, I try to lean towards mercy for others. I would hate to be judged harshly. Pray the Lord would convict his heart and he would reach out to others and get the help he needs.

Blessings, Sheila

[riri]

Hello Omega man, toad, cmc, best, sheila 77,
thanks for answering.
Omega man, I'm not so sure about writing an anonymous letter. The thing that really impressed me about Jesus when I got to know him in 1987(when Christians whom I met whilst in the psychiatric ward - rehab) was the fact, that he was absolutely honest, straight, no deceit or lies or secretivness. Since I was very crooked in my old days, that really impressed me. So an anonymous letter would not be the solution for me. No more doing things behind backs. But it is good to see that that pastor got dry and is well.
Hello toad, my pastors wife has gone several times to alanon, but has the feeling that they really cannot help her, only help her in some respects but not all.
Hello cmc, I do not know which rules my church has. I know that I can leave, but the thing is, I like everybody, including the pastor, have been in this church for 7 years now and would hate leaving. My kids have made great friends in this church. My vision is that the pastor and the church get healed and that we then move forward in the holy spirit.
Hello Best, my church is not in the USA. We have different structures here. The pastor and the elders together founded the church. We do not have a church board. There is no leadership above the pastor. He has "mentors", but they are in France and the UK. We are part of the pentecostal movement, but are independant.
I am not judging my pastor. I know that I need Gods grace everyday, and consider the whole of humanity being in the same boat i.e. sinners needing grace.
But what hurts me is the fact that the church is falling apart.
Since one year we had no childrens sunday school, have stopped outward reaching, evangelism, all activities in church other than regular sunday service and home groups.
People know that something is wrong, but do not know what.
The pastor does not know if we will continue renting the building, stay in the same area, move, etc.etc.etc.....There is no direction, no leadership.
If he would work in a little office, it would be different, but being the pastor, the flock is suffering and the church is falling apart. And that hurts.
I'm praying, and so are others. But what is necessary is that the pastor decides to stop pretending and starts being honest and accountable to his mentors.
So it would be nice if you guys could pray also.
I'll keep you informed how things turn out. There is a meeting this evening (it's now 18.30 hrs local time) between him and the last remaining elder. So please pray.
Thanks and till next time,
riri

[cmc]

riri,
I will continue to pray for all involved. I'm always saddened to hear of a good ministry running into trouble. I have belonged to a few small independent fellowships (non denominational) in the past, but each one _did_ have some oversight and accountablity from within and outside. There are some clear scriptures about submitting to authority and to one another in the faith as well.
Hopefully your pastor will become ready soon to find recovery.
Please keep us updated on how things are going and how you are doing too.

[riri]

Thanks cmc, our church needs prayers a lot at the moment. I'm still in a turmoil over this whole thing, as a recovered alcoholic honesty is a very important thing for me.
Besides, I think that my pastor not admitting to being an alcoholic puts him under more strain (having to keep things hushed up), and strain, as we all know, leads to drinking pressure. Having it out in the open may - in the beginning - be very vulnerable, but for me, in the long run, will help recovery. Hiding has never helped.
From what I gather he and his wife want to go to christian counseling in a town nearby. I just hope that they are familiar with all the ins and outs of helping alcoholics and which steps it involves. Will keep you informed, and please continue praying. I will inform myself if he is accountable and to whom, as I now think that this is an important issue.
I would love the pastor, his wife and the people in my church to really have a direction and be able to do the things Jesus wants us to do, instead of drifting directionless around, being so much involved with our problems. There are not many options left, something has to be done. Have a nice day and be blessed,
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