Spiritually Immature...simple question

[Robzoloft]

Hello All- I do consider myself a Christian but am well aware I have a long way to go in every regard... I make many foolish choices and willful mistakes....one question...can I really be forgiven for some of the things I did in active addiction...can I let go of the guilt, shame and remorse that tears my conscience apart every day....I think about it every day...I did some terrible things to people and I am ashamed...now that I no longer live that way its hard to feel forgiven....but I need to be to be able to move forward with my life....the people involved specifically were in the drug world and I have no way to contact them directly....but its GOD I feel furthest from...and I'm hurting

[Barbara52]

God forgives you if you are sincere and repentent. Forgiving yourself is often the hard part with any sin.

[cmc]

Welcome to the forum.
Here are some links that provide helpful information about being a Christian and finding forgiveness:
http://www.4stepstogod.com/
http://www.bible.org/pge.php?page_id=276

[dave47]

Hello Robz, i believe that when it is time, then we seek forgiveness from those we have wronged. We are our own harshest critics and judges, whereas God is all loving and forgiving. ,All we can do is try and lead a good life and God is right there with us.

[toad]

Originally Posted by Robzoloft

Hello All- I do consider myself a Christian but am well aware I have a long way to go in every regard... I make many foolish choices and willful mistakes....one question...can I really be forgiven for some of the things I did in active addiction...can I let go of the guilt, shame and remorse that tears my conscience apart every day....I think about it every day...I did some terrible things to people and I am ashamed...now that I no longer live that way its hard to feel forgiven....but I need to be to be able to move forward with my life....the people involved specifically were in the drug world and I have no way to contact them directly....but its GOD I feel furthest from...and I'm hurting

Thanks for your post, I am reminded of myself by reading through it. My question to you is, are you taking part in any program of recovery?

I have some simple questions for you. Before I can share my experience, stength, and hope with you it helps to know a little about how far you are in the program.

Here we go:

Are you clean and sober?
Do you attend meetings?
If so, have you picked a sponsor?
Have you worked the steps?

I found that after doing a 4th step I was able to make a list of those I had harmed......"and became willing to make amends to them all." In the process of working step 9 with my sponsor I was able to make amends where possible. In the AA book 12X12, it states that some amends we will never be able to make..........how true this is. In my life I find that I make these kind of amends by helping stangers.......I give to Special Olympics, Deaf Blind, Humane Society, and other organizations. I also give people rides to meetings, and volunteer at prisons. I am paying back, it's just not directly to those I owe (like you some are impossible to pay back).

I have received serenity by just being willing to do what I can.........watch out for self-pity, it is a form of pride and it will put you in the grave.

I pray that you respond............toad

[Elizabeth2007]

Jesus is all about forgiveness, grace and mercy.

His message was simple, ask and you shall be forgiven, if you ask with a sincere and repentant heart.

He says that your sins will be as far as the east is from the west - that he washes us as white as snow and that his mercies are new every morning. We will never be perfect but as we submit to Him and let His love fill us, our choices, hopefully become better, and we learn to love and forgive ourselves.

I pray that His mercy and grace and love touch and fill you today.

Elizabeth

[Lily]

Rob,

Grace is a free gift, there is nothing you can do to earn or deserve it or heaven for that matter, just accept it. Grace is getting what we do not deserve (heaven) when we are all sinners and deserve hell. As we trust in Jesus Christ ALONE for our salvation.

Mercy is not getting what we do deserve. (hell once again) so just remember like everyone above is saying to you, if you are repentive and sincere and ask for forgiveness there is nothing the Lord will not forgive except rejecting him unto death.

We have all done horrible wicked things in our addiction. My problem isn't "can God forgive me?" cuz I know he can and does, my problem is not taking advantage of his grace and mercy and falling into licentiousness, (which is sinning knowing he will forgive me anyway.)

[Elizabeth2007]

Originally Posted by Sheila77

Rob,

Grace is a free gift, there is nothing you can do to earn or deserve it or heaven for that matter, just accept it. Grace is getting what we do not deserve (heaven) when we are all sinners and deserve hell. As we trust in Jesus Christ ALONE for our salvation.

Mercy is not getting what we do deserve. (hell once again) so just remember like everyone above is saying to you, if you are repentive and sincere and ask for forgiveness there is nothing the Lord will not forgive except rejecting him unto death.

We have all done horrible wicked things in our addiction. My problem isn't "can God forgive me?" cuz I know he can and does, my problem is not taking advantage of his grace and mercy and falling into licentiousness, (which is sinning knowing he will forgive me anyway.)

I truly agree with this 100%

[best]

Originally Posted by toad

Are you clean and sober?
Do you attend meetings?
If so, have you picked a sponsor?
Have you worked the steps?

I worked the steps through reading and study of the bible as well as a men's program in a bible study that is much like working the 12 steps used in AA and NA.
The thing about using the 12 steps found in AA and NA... AA already has things laid out in a nice neat package and you can find people ready and willing to help guide you through the steps. The results... a more focused answer. What took me 3 years or so doing it my way can be found much faster by using the tools that AA uses..the 12 steps.
You will gain a new freedom as you learn how to forgive yourself by working the steps.
So from what I see there are two choices... find the answers on your own or look into a faster more focused way that AA uses. The steps will change your life.

[todd6138]

Understanding why God would forgive me is still what brings me the most joy in my recovery today. it is the power of Christ who lives in me. I t is my job to die daily to myself and let Christ sit on the throne, not me. see Galatians 2:20 I thank Him today for loving me enough to find a solution for my sin problem that had no solution except for an eternity in hell. Thank you for Jesus who died and set me free. Thank you for loving me and now I get to spend eternity with Him and you all in heaven. Just relax and accept God's grace and mercy. I believe He shows us his love through you and others in sharing our struggles and finding a solution in Christ Jesus so that He may be glorified. Praise His holy name.

[savoy]

Refusing the forgiveness of God,

by clinging to guilt or shame, is little more than defiance.

Defiance in a christian is little more than their enguish at finding no proof for God,

quite insane when considering all I had to do was obey and my proof was there all along.

[savoy]

Originally Posted by best

I worked the steps through reading and study of the bible as well as a men's program in a bible study that is much like working the 12 steps used in AA and NA.
The thing about using the 12 steps found in AA and NA... AA already has things laid out in a nice neat package and you can find people ready and willing to help guide you through the steps. The results... a more focused answer. What took me 3 years or so doing it my way can be found much faster by using the tools that AA uses..the 12 steps.
You will gain a new freedom as you learn how to forgive yourself by working the steps.
So from what I see there are two choices... find the answers on your own or look into a faster more focused way that AA uses. The steps will change your life.

Its curious that religion thinks it can duplicate the steps of AA, by the time religion has a working model, it might as well be called a what it is, AA.

If I stated I am thinking to invent the wheel, you would be correct to assume I might need help.

[toad]

Originally Posted by savoy

Its curious that religion thinks it can duplicate the steps of AA, by the time religion has a working model, it might as well be called a what it is, AA.

If I stated I am thinking to invent the wheel, you would be correct to assume I might need help.

Religion does not duplicate AA..........as a matter of fact the spiritual principles found in the 12 steps can be found written centuries ago in the New Testament.

Savoy, I take it that you are a member of AA. You probably have read the books "Pass It On," "Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers," and "AA comes of Age." If so then you know that the Oxford Group a Christian fundamentalist organization gave Bill W. and Dr. Bob both the concept of steps. The original 6 steps of AA came straight from the Oxford group. Along with Dr. Silkworth and Carl Jung they came up with a program of action that helps us recover from the mental obsession, physical allergy and the spiritual void that we found ourselves living in.

You have got the cart before the horse when you think that religion duplicates AA.

Read the books...............toad

[cmc]

Savoy,
"Religion" doesn't think anything. Please keep your posts positive and remember here on SR and especially in the Christian forum. SR rules forbid members to bash someone else's program of recovery. You spend alot of time correcting everyone else and putting down what is obviously working for them.
I attend Alanon where the focus of my recovery is to practice tending to my own recovery and letting others do as they wish. I have enough inventory of my own to do without taking somebody elses too. How is your program working for you?

[best]

Originally Posted by savoy

Its curious that religion thinks it can duplicate the steps of AA, by the time religion has a working model, it might as well be called a what it is, AA.

If I stated I am thinking to invent the wheel, you would be correct to assume I might need help.

Religion is one things.... The bible (God's word) is another.
By reading the bible and seeing what it says inside, you can see that every answer that is found in the books of AA can be found in the bible.

The neat thing about AA... they have everything in a nice orderly fashion that is geared towards finding recovery from a bottle. I believe they call it the 12 steps.
I found the same answers in the bible and after learning more about AA I realized that what I learned from reading the bible was the same as what AA shows us through the 12 steps.

Religion isn't trying to invent a recovery program... many churches are trying to get back to basics and bring AA back to a Christ centered program as it once was with the Oxford group. In my opinion from what I have seen, what churches are trying to do is use what has worked for ages (as proven by AA) and return to what Oxford had only with a broader acceptance and understanding of people.

More programs and different programs will reach more people. AA isn't the only way but in my opinion it is a great way to get sober.

If sober and improved is what a person wants...AA is great.
If sober with a full new found freedom that also gives the promise of heaven...
Well acceptance of Jesus and the reading and studying of what the bible says can gain a person things beyond AA.
Yes it can get even better then what we know.
Hard to believe at times but I find the more I learn the better it gets.
One day at a time.

[best]

Originally Posted by savoy

Defiance in a christian is little more than their enguish at finding no proof for God,

I guess for some that could be so but then I would also say they are not a Christian if they don't believe ... and... accept Jesus as Lord of their life.

See even satan believes and he is filled with defiance. he believes but doesn't accept. he knows fully that there is a God but still he doesn't accept Jesus as Lord. His pride gets in the way.

When did you start to find forgiveness for yourself?
Step 4 or step 12? or someplace between the two?
Forgiveness of self is something we need work at all the time. It is a struggle we have because we are human.
The steps are not a one time through and done...they are a lifetime of using them as needed.

[todd6138]

I guess working on my charcter defects and personal inventory really started the changes for me. I mean, I would worry and fret and hold resentments and I really had no love for other people. God showed me through letting me depend more and more on Him to surrender more and more of my hate and prejudices and preconceived notions about life and I am finding out that I know very little on how to live. I am slowly gaining some much needed humility and the program of the 12 steps has been vital to my growth. My pastor said last week there was no need for the term recovering alcoholic and that disturbed me a bit. While an alcholic may be healed in the spritual sense, it is my belief there is a lot of work to be done in the therapeutic sense. We are truly free in Christ, but I think the steps provide a much needed sense of direction foro the struggling alcholic. This is not to say that God does not heal immediately if He chooses, but I love the way He has only revealed to me what I have needed to know at the time. I hope some of this made sense.