I am so frustrated with my pastor

[Barbara52]

I am very frustrated trying to educate my pastor about alcoholism. Short version of my story, after a couple of years of trying to get my AH to recognize his alcoholism (his answer to requests to stop drinking and go to AA was always "That's not going to happen anytime soon.") and trying to get him to get a job, I left my AH. ON the day I left I had my pastor and a recovring alcoholic friend come and talk to AH and try one last time to influence AH into recovery. AH did go and get evaluated, which ended up with the professionals telling him he was alcoholic. AH supposed quit drinking the day I left but has done nothing in terms of going to AA or another recovery program or individual therapy. His choice of course.

The problem has come about because my pastor has no understanding of alcoholism as a disease. Pastor thinks that since AH has quit drinking the problem has been dealt with and needs nothing further. Pastor thinks I am unreasonable to have left AH and unreasonable to want to move forward with a divorce. I am being judged as the one at fault in the failure of my marriage since I am the one who left AH, with little reason in pastor's eyes. Pastor doesn't hink he needs to educate himself about alcoholism or its effects on the family members. The problem is cured already in his eyes.

This is becoming a big problem for me since AH is an Elder in our church, a trustee and a member of the personnel committee and his alcoholism should prohibit him from being active in those positions. Its in the bylaws of the church. I see the pastor and other executive members as enabling his behaviors since they will not enforce their own rules and therefore AH continues to think he has done nothing "wrong" and has felt no consequences.

I know I cannot control any of this (Lord knows I do not want to either) nor is it my place to educate pastor. He has the resources to learn if he chooses to. I'm not sure what I am looking for with this post. Advice? Validation? A kick in the behind? I just need to throw this out there.

[WantsOut]

I am actually witnessing a total drama regarding a pastor whose life is a bigger mess than any of his flock. They are all too human and I don't see any reason why you shouldn't try to help educate him. Maybe give him a book and tell him you are hurt by what you percieve as blame for the end of the marriage. If he doesn't want to hear you, that's that and you may want to find a new church for your new life.

A question to consider might be what you would like to see happen here in an ideal world. Do you just want to not be blamed? Do you want to see your ex kicked out or demoted in some way? What do you really want?

[Barbara52]

What do I want?

Part of it of course is not wanting blame placed unfairly on me. It bothers me greatly that my side of the story so to speak is being ignored and dismissed.

But my larger concern is my AH who is deep in denial and could use honest, knowledgeable pastoral counselling and real life consequences for his continued bad choices. I am also concerned for the management of the church since as a trustee AH has access to funds and he is getting desperate for money.

I have tried educating pastor, giving him links to information and my recovering alcoholic friend is also a member in the church and has tried explaining it all to pastor. There's not much more I can do if pastor chooses not to make use of the sources and information to educate himself.

I am struggling with whether its time to find a new church home. There are other issues with the way worship is conducted and some of the personalities in the leadership of the church but those are minor considerations.

[cmc]

What do I want?
Part of it of course is not wanting blame placed unfairly on me. It bothers me greatly that my side of the story so to speak is being ignored and dismissed.
What others think of me does not reflect on who I am. I do understand how that feels though and it's not nice. It seems to me that you are dealing with all sides of this and have laid out, clearly what you want. I would prefer to say 'need' instead of 'want' because I think everyone needs to be validated when they have been through such pain- especially pain caused by someone else who appears to 'get away' with their actions.

But my larger concern is my AH who is deep in denial and could use honest, knowledgeable pastoral counselling and real life consequences for his continued bad choices.This is your AH's concern and he obviously has things just the way he wants them right there in your church. I am also concerned for the management of the church since as a trustee AH has access to funds and he is getting desperate for money. Just like any other relation- be it a boss, coworker or family member- the leadership in your church will have to learn for themselves. If your AH were to steal from the church that would still not guarantee that they would do the right thing.

I have tried educating pastor, giving him links to information and my recovering alcoholic friend is also a member in the church and has tried explaining it all to pastor. There's not much more I can do if pastor chooses not to make use of the sources and information to educate himself.Like anyone else- if he thinks he knows it all- he won't listen. That's really sad to me.

I am struggling with whether its time to find a new church home. I've been involved before in disfunctional church 'families' and had to get away from that kind of atmosphere. The church I belong to now is wonderful. I also find that only 'recovery' people can appreciate my perspective and I try not to expect people of the church to understand. It's nice when they do and many of our church friends are in recovery too- I just think I can get more and better validation in the rooms of recovery and leave church for worship and religious instruction.There are other issues with the way worship is conducted and some of the personalities in the leadership of the church but those are minor considerations.If they don't follow their own rules, how is that minor?

I'll be praying for you to be guided by the Lord and know His will for your life.

[Barbara52]

Thank you for your comments and your prayers. I continue to learn in here. I guess this is all yet another place for me to let go and put it in God's hands. Something I try to do but of course fail at sometimes. This danged codependecy pops up at all sorts of odd moments.

I continue to pray on all this. The right path will become clear in time I know.

[cmc]

This danged codependecy pops up at all sorts of odd moments.

Don't I know it. I was just sharing with an NA friend yesterday how I will always have to be looking out for it in my own life. It's not like picking up a drug or taking a drink, although those actions come from the same source- an attitude of self reliance. jmho It is the same stinking thinking and misguided motives when I'm not working a successful program that always lead to the same outcome.

[toad]

Originally Posted by cmc

I've been involved before in disfunctional church 'families' and had to get away from that kind of atmosphere.

Some pastors think the the problem of alcoholism is one of sin alone, and fail to understand the physical allergy, and mental obsession. They fail to understand that drinking is but a symptom of underlying problems caused by self-centeredness. My sponsor gave my pastor a copy of the Big Book years ago when he attended the church. We now have an AA meeting every week in the church. We have several people who attend my church who are in recovery, not all attend AA. Some seem to do well without the AA program, but for myself, I had to trust God, clean house and help others.

If you decide to leave your church God will still love you. And I am sure if you look, you will find a group of believers to grow, learn, and worship with that are more compatable to where you are at this time in life.

[todd6138]

I've always been told "to thine own self be true". If your heart and God is giving you direction follow that. I had to quit contact with my twin brother who i have been close to for all of my 36 years because he simply won't wuit drinking and my disease of salcoholism is stronger than my willpower to be able to hang out with him right now he is angry and out of control, but i cannot change my program of recovery because God has openend the door to a better life in sobriety for me today. I have had to change many things people and places in my life, but God hasn't let me down yet. Thank you for your bravery and sharing your life with us I will pray you find peace and a solution soon.

[Barbara52]

There's a new wrinkle in this mess. I discovered that my AH stole money from me by cashing a check from my insurance that was meant to pay for my son's braces. I need to tell the pastor about this in light of AH having access to the church's money because AH is on the Board of Trustees. Part of me feels like I'm being a tattle tale but part of me thinks I have an obligation to pass on this information and then let pastor do with it as he see fit.

[Lily]

Did you confront him first? what was his response, I mean was he repentive? One time I went to the pastor in church because of something some did that was totally wrong and they were both removed from leadership, however it has been almost 6 yrs now and our relationship is still strained because I did not follow Matthew 18 first. (the ppl involved were my family members and I am still bummed I did that to this day)

I would say confront him and pray for him first to come to his senses first before you do anything else.

[Barbara52]

Yes, I confronted him. He says legally he didn't steal since the check had his name on it and besides he needed the money more than I. True in and of itself. The insurance policy I was paying for him and my son had him as the primary insured therefore the check was in his name. He knew the money was not a gift from the insurance company and that he should have asked me what it was for. He instead chose to be underhanded and tried to deceive me about where the check came from apparently not thinking I would get a copy of the deposit from the bank. He knows he is morally wrong, which is why he went all legalistic on me when I confronted him about it.

I'm sure the money is long gone. He has no income because he was fired 2+ years ago and I moved out 5 months ago. I have no idea how he is managing to pay any of his bills. I'm sure his desperation drove him to this.

I pray for him daily. I want nothing more than for him to admit to his alcoholism, deal with his issues and begin the road to recovery.

[best]

Originally Posted by Barbara52

I pray for him daily. I want nothing more than for him to admit to his alcoholism, deal with his issues and begin the road to recovery.

To educate your pastor, you need educate yourself first.
The intake of alcohol is not the problem.
When I stopped in intake of alcohol, my issues didn't show as much but they were still there waiting to jump out as needed by my selfish nature.

You say to the pastor...His drinking is....

What we should say is...his behavior, actions, inactions, ... a list a mile long are why our drinking is a problem. Alcohol intake only magnifies our issues *till* we learn to work at our own personal recovery and growth.
The alcohol intake would magnify my issues and my magnified issues would magnify my wife's issues (how she would react) She figured out her side of things and stopped reacting to my poor behaviors in a manner that would get her upset. Ok now her life is starting to find some peace because of boundaries she would use. hmmm what can I do now? No reactions to play off of...I become left holding my own issues in my own hands.

So now back to the pastor... Telling him drinking is the problem will only work if the pastor understands what goes along with the alcohol intake.
To educate him...you need be more specific. The issues...what he does are the problem..alcohol only magnifies them.

[bballdad]

I believe I would get me a new Pastor

[Barbara52]

Originally Posted by bballdad

I believe I would get me a new Pastor

Yup, it is. I wrote him an email describing events and concerns. He hasn't bothered responding in any way whatsoever.

Time to find me a new church home.

[cmc]

Prayers for you to find just the right place to land.

[Barbara52]

Thanks cmc. I will. God is leading me where He wants me to be. I just need to be patient and open to His direction.