anyone in av?

[todd6138]

I attend and sometimes "chair" a meeting on mondays in huntington wv for alcoholics victorious, a christian type of "aa". In the meetings we follow the 12 steps along purely biblical guidelines. However, it is dificult to find sobriety time in any christaians who have actually worked any steps. Most of the chrisitans that come in for our meeting put down the 12 steps and say there is only one step away from sin and toward Jesus Christ. I do not disagree with all of that; however the word recovery is found in the Bible and is dtermined that sobriety is a process rather than an event. My alcoho0lic brain has been badly damaged and I feel that I do better when I am involved in a recovery processs rather than simply get saved adn go to church. I am becoming discouraged with the resistance in our meeting and have basically given up any real hopes of having honest sharing because everyone is too scared to admit they have real probelms; instead they want to "help" everybody else because they hav ebeen saved ( like I haven't) and now they have all the answers ( and sometimes less than three months sobriety). I enjoy having the freedom to worship Jesus during the meetings but i feel the content is watered down. Any suggestions?

[cmc]

instead they want to "help" everybody else because they hav ebeen saved ( like I haven't) and now they have all the answers

I just had to comment on this statement because I've seen this before too. I was one of those people at one time. True recovery is not about fixing other people. It would be most arrogant of me to think I had "all the answers" much less try to force them on another person. Recovery...is about fixing ME- and then serving others. (Step 12)

Needing to fix others is something that involves another addiction...codependency. God is not a codependent Father. He offers Himself, His Son, His Holy Spirit, and His grace and truth but He leaves the choice to receive up to me. He also leaves me to my own consequences.


My experience with recovery involves Alanon, some therapy and coming here to SR. Although I try to keep my replies here to my own ESH...I will bend my rule slightly and share some of my husband's ESH with you...with his permission of course!

He has a Christian men's meeting that he attends faithfully. There is true accountability within the members of the group. Many of the men in that meeting have over 30 years recovery in AA.

My husband has been a solid, serving and committed Christian since 1971. We helped start up a church for young people in our early teen years and have been leaders in the various fellowships we have attended. We are both Stephen's Ministers and serious students of the bible. He still had intermittent lapses of clean time over a 35 year period of time.

Although his problem involves narcotics, AA has been a true blessing from the Lord. He's had a few different sponsors in AA sporadically over the years and also did some step work with a counselor.

Due to a recent relapse, he is now doing his 90 in 90, has a new AA sponsor and just completed step 2. The difference I see in him in the short time (30+ days) is remarkable.

I'm not bashing the Christian programs...but I would rather stick with something that is proven to work. JMHO.

[toad]

Originally Posted by cmc

I'm not bashing the Christian programs...but I would rather stick with something that is proven to work. JMHO.

I love the Lord Jesus Christ, I worship the Father, I believe in the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, ...........I attend a church regularly, but when it comes to my soberiety I will hang with the winners I have found in AA. Couldn't have said it any better than cmc.

[GrouchoTheCat]

The 12 steps of AA are really a process that leads to a spiritual awakening.

There are some who have a 'spiritual experience' and believe that they are all set now, and have all that they need. Unfortunately, this does not seem to be the case. If it were, the 12 steps would not be necessary!

Cleaning ones moral house, confession of our sins, the removal (by God) of our defects of character, the willingness and then the action of righting the wrongs we have done to others, constant vigilance of our actions, ongoing renewal of our conscious contact with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and finally, having HAD a spiritual awakening 'as a result of these steps' we are bound to help others. If we have truly 'awakened', helping others will be a natural way of life.

My sponsor observes that many, if not most, seem to be given a window of opportunity (a time of peace and serenity), in which to do the step work.

Too many, feeling this taste of peace and freedom (usually after the third step) simply stop the work and wind up relapsing and wondering what the heck happened.

I like the idea of Christian based meetings, but I would hope that the message is to do the [necessary] work in order to deepen and cement our faith.

Ted

[cmc]

todd,
My husband recommends that any Christian who doubts the feasibility of AA's 12 step program read the chapter titled "We Agnostics" from Big Book.
God bless,
cmc

[todd6138]

trust me i am a dedicated aa. i believe in the 12 steps. I appreciate everyone's comments and friendship. It is nice to hear from all sides on this issue. I believe that once everyone who has no interest in working the steps leaves or becomes more open and tolerant that the meeting will become a bit more meaningful. I just think that Jesus has a purpose and a plan for this meeting or it wouldn't have stayed running for as long as it has. I will continue to be faithful and of service to all those interested in recovery and I hope your evening is blessed like mine has been.

[TonyB]

Todd,
I have been involved with a group of Christians that have a Bible study every week and use the Recovery Bible for the study. It is awesome to have Christian fellowship and AA fellowship at the same time. The important thing, in my opinion is that the group remains separate from AA according to our traditions, and I think that’s why it works. I realized very quickly that I need to have my ministry work as well as be involved with AA. They each compliment the other; I guess where I’m going with this is that neither one is a substitute for the other. When I read your post, all I could think of was this “we thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not.� It seems to me that our founders in AA set up the program the way they did for a purpose. It needs to be worked as designed, all in my humble opinion. It sounds to me like you have some people within your ranks that are avoiding the steps and hoping they will be miraculously cured. I wish them the best, but I fear they are doomed to failure. I look at my own recovery like this; “God helps those that help themselves� or you could also say “Faith without works is dead�; meaning that I had better get myself in line with the 12 steps of this program of recovery if I want to experience any real recovery. God is not going to help me unless I help myself.
TB

[toad]

Originally Posted by TonyB

Todd,
I have been involved with a group of Christians that have a Bible study every week and use the Recovery Bible for the study. It is awesome to have Christian fellowship and AA fellowship at the same time.

I too meet every Wed. evening with a cell group from my church. We read the Life Recovery Bible and discuss the Scriptures and recovery. I also enjoy both fellowships, but I find it important to keep them seperate. I have no conflict with between being a Christian and being in AA. Some people do, but I do not. Many come to AA having trouble believing in God. In AA our primary purpose is to help the alcoholic who is still suffering. Not salvation. But at the same time I have found AA to be a wonderful place to share the Lord with someone. I find it important to wait til they ask, and then share Jesus after the meeting. I try and keep my discussion at meetings to my problems with alcohol, try not to give advice, and share my experience strength and hope.

Thanks Tony for your important contribution to this thread...........toad

[todd6138]

hi guys just enjoying your posts. the meeting i attend is not intended to replace secular aa. the meeting was designed to allow pwople to feel no pressure in naming Jesus as their "higher power". However, the attendance has been very up and down. We have an open meeting once a month with a speaker. However, the only speakers we have been getting are christians with long term sobriety that have never worked the steps. There is compelling testimony and people get excited about recovery. I have appreciated all of their help in the meetings. However, they simply get disgusted with the notion of aa or the 12 steps and many of them are preachers, so instead of a discussion meeting, it turns into a how to lecture on how you need to go back to the altar and even question your salvation if you are having problems or relpases in your sobriety. We offer a chip system, but no one ever dares accept chips because that would mean they are part of recovery process rather than having experienced complete healing like the 3 or 4 preachers I have mentioned with 20+ years without a drink notice i didn't say sobriety because frankly, with what i've seen, I have my doubts. I simply comne to the meetings prepared with something out of the walking the twelve steps with Jesus Christ workbook and my Serenity 12 stpe Bible which the translation doesn't much suit too many people either. At least two people have found my approach helpful and they too have gone out to aa and at my meeting to approach their recovery and church as well. So far I have 7+ months and my friend Scott, who also has serious liver damage and other damage has been sober for six and we thank God for the journey we have taken together.I love the 12 steps, the big book and the Bible as invaluable resources to lead and guide and direct me to God's will for my life.

[toad]

Hey Todd,

Congratulations on your seven months. Your attitude is great. I do all I can to stay sober. AA, NA, church, and cell group. I live in a small town and tried to get a Christian recovery meeting going but soon had to quit because of lack of people attending. The same thing happened to our NA meetings over the years. I don't know why people don't want to attend.

Over the years I have seen people get sober, clean, and delivered from drugs and alcohol. I have seen them get on fire for God and do well. Then all of a sudden their using again............I ask myself why?

The nature of alcoholism and drug addiction is three-fold. Mental, physical, and spiritual.

We have a mental obsession. The constant and sometimes subconscious obsession with the drink, drinking, or drugs and using.

We have a physical allergy. An allergy is an abnormal reaction to something. When we drink or use, it triggers the phenomen of craving. Once we start we loose control of the amount we take in. This is abnormal, normal drinkers and users have a few and quit, we don't.

Our problem is also spiritual. This fact was given to us by Carl Jung the noted psychiatrist. He said that in history, some had recovered only by profound spiritual experiences. As Christians we know about the sin in drunkenness, and the self-centeredness involved in the process.

So...........the shrinks couldn't help us alone, the doctors couldn't help us alone, and the preachers couldn't help us alone. It took something that involved all three...........and there we have the God given (in my opinion) program of AA.

Man, I've got to hear from another alcoholic. I need to be graceful enough to allow another alcoholic to work with me (sponsor), and I need to work with another alcoholic (sponsee). I only find this kind of set-up in AA. Wet drunks don't just walk into my church, even though they would be welcome.

Todd...........you're doing great, Keep doin' what you're doin' and you'll keep gettin' what you're gettin'........thanks for letting me share...........toad

[todd6138]

I really like you already, man. Thanks for the support your story and experience. I love your insight and am glad I posted in this forum I love this website!

[cmc]

Todd,
I'm glad that _you_ came here to share too and hope you will continue to be a part of this forum.
God bless!
cmc

[TonyB]

Todd,
Congrats on your 7 months. Keep coming back.
TB