Can A.A. itself be an addiction?

[wazoo1492]

I have a question, can going to Alcoholics Anonymous meetings become an addiction in it's own right? I have a close friend who's boyfriend is an ex alcoholic (hasn't drank for years) but feels like he has to attend EVERY A.A. each week.

OK, I have to admit that while I know A. A. helps a lot of people I do have trouble with some of their philosophy. Like the idea that one is totally "helpless" in abstaining from the substance they're addicted too. Granted I do believe that relying on a higher power is a plus, however I do believe we each have "free will" and an accountability for our actions.

I also have a problem with A.A. labeling people who have quit alcohol without their help "dry drunks". My mom used to be an alcoholic and she quit on her own---cold turkey---I mean. No group meetings, no A.A., nada. In my mind my mother is not an alcoholic. She hasn't touched a drop in over 20 years. Used to be an alcoholic, yes. I guess my problem with A.A. is this vibe I get from them that unless one recovers their way they are DOOMED to failure.

So maybe I'm being prejudiced, but I'm wondering if suggesting my friend's BF look into other non-12 step programs is a good idea. I'm really getting the feeling that he feels like is he misses ONE meeting he's going to be laying face down in the gutter is a bit too strong a power for any kind of support group to have on a person.

Thank you for any help ya'll can give me!

[toad]

Originally Posted by wazoo1492

OK, I have to admit that while I know A. A. helps a lot of people I do have trouble with some of their philosophy.

I also have a problem with A.A. labeling people who have quit alcohol without their help "dry drunks".

I guess my problem with A.A. is this vibe I get from them that unless one recovers their way they are DOOMED to failure.

So maybe I'm being prejudiced, !

You know absolutly nothing about what you are talking about!!! If you meddle in your friends life you will cause strife and that is not Scriptural.

Your quote about "dry drunks" is totally false and I would consider it a lie!

Your quote about being "DOOMED to failure is also a lie.

You don't even sound like you are in recovery........but........you might just find someone here who agrees with you.......it ain't me.

Share this with me:

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance, that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

Herbert Spencer
(found in the book Alcoholics Anonymous at the end of Appendix II titled Spiritual Experience)

All this said in love..........I suppose that AA could become habit forming, but I would not consider it an addiction (once again my opinion is that you know nothing about addictions).......here is the kicker.........I have never known of anyone who died from too much AA............laugh with me wazoo.........ha ha ha

...........toad

[wazoo1492]

Actually, my dear, I do know about addictions, 1st because as I mentioned my mother was an alcoholic, and secondly because I've worked as a psych nurse for the past ten years.

I'd suggest that you learn how to "say things in love".

By the way, did I claim to "be in recovery"?

[toad]

Originally Posted by wazoo1492

Actually, my dear, I do know about addictions, 1st because as I mentioned my mother was an alcoholic, and secondly because I've worked as a psych nurse for the past ten years.

I'd suggest that you learn how to "say things in love".

By the way, did I claim to "be in recovery"?

This is a forum for Christians in Recovery..........I quess you don't really belong here.

You might not be able to recognize love..........share this with me......toad

"There is no more aloneness, with that awful ache, so deep in the heart of every alcoholic, that nothing, before, could ever reach it. The ache is gone and never need return again. Now there is a sense of belonging, of being wanted and needed and loved. In return for a bottle and a hangover, we have been given the Keys of the Kingdom."

Alcoholics Anonymous, page 276

"There are a lot of people who don't like the weakness that is implied in the word "surrender.". . .
People like to think they are strong characters who can take care of their own destinies.
That is always fictitious thinking. Everybody in this world is some kind of weakling,
and if he thinks he is not, that is the greatest weakness of all."

Alcoholics Anonymous Comes of Age, page 266

[CarolD]

Whoa Friends!

Please remember that bashing anothers recovery program
is not allowed at SR.
It's a serious offense...and
will get your membership revoked.

With that in mind...
this thread is now closed.

[toad]

I once had an affair with a psych ward nurse while I was committed. Being a psych ward nurse means absolutly nothing and does not make you an authority on addictions. My life has changed completly, it is 180 degrees from the way it was. It was by the grace of God that I was allowed to live long enough to get clean and sober. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior, my All. Without Jesus I am nothing. I love the Word of God and put it in my spirit first thing each morning. I am addicted to the Word. Through the Holy Spirit showing insights into the Word and how these insight should be applied to my life, I continue to grow. I still have a long ways to go. AA has given me a place to apply everything I have learned from the Father, Son, Holy Ghost, and the finished work of the cross............There is no conflict in my life between AA and being a Christian.........

This also said in love, thanks for letting me share.......toad

[best]

Rejecting an idea because of what we see from the outside is a form of ignorance.
Unless we have walked in another's shoes, we never know what is what.
Can AA be an addiction? Yes
Can church be an addiction? Yes
We can become so obsessed with anything we do that it can "look like" an addiction.

For me... if I don't read the bible and fellowship with other Christians... it takes me about a week before I start to notice that I am slipping back into sin. So...
What that tells me is I need read God's word and attend church at least once a week.
I am not addicted... it is a need.
If I read the bible daily and fellowship with other believers daily, would you say I have an addiction or would you say I am making sure that...daily my spiritual health remains good?
For some people, AA meetings are the same. It is a life line that helps us stay healthy.
Some may require 2 meetings a day for the rest of their life, some could do ok with 2 meetings a month. I am not in their shoes.. I can only tell you what "my" needs are.

As for your understanding of what AA teaches or says... the best way to know is to read the AA Big Book and find the answers right from the black and white for yourself.
I have been called many things from people outside the understanding of who Jesus is and untill they have a personal relationship with the Lord for themself...I will continue being called many things. Are they correct or are they ignorant to the truth that I know? If we want answers...we are better to go to the source to find them.
Your understanding of AA and what they teach needs some enlightening. You are seeing things from the outside looking in. We can't see the truth when we do that. We need look into the middle as we stand in the middle to fully understand.
Read the Big Book and find the answers for yourself. I am sure that with what you do for work, the answers you find will help you greatly in your job. It will be well worth the effort I am sure.

[cmc]

Hi wazoo and welcome to SR. We have a few forums here on SR just for Friends & Family of Alcoholics/Addicts where the focus is placed not on the alcoholic but the involvement of the friends and or family members of the alcoholic. I hope you will stop by and take a look, there is alot of helpful information there in the sticky threads and many of the posters there have alot to offer too.

My question to you would be first off is why you are becoming involved in this man's recovery? If it's working for him- why would anyone want to interfere with that? He is a grown man and capable of working his own recovery and such criticism of his desired program of recovery could hinder his progress. In Alanon there is a saying called the 3 C's of Alcoholism.
I did not Cause it.
I cannot Cure it.
I cannot Control it.
There is a 4th C amended which says....I can Contribute to the disease.

In Alanon I learned that what others choose to do in their recovery is none of my business and I learned to focus on why I had such a strong impulse to interfere in another person's life.

By the way, my son is in recovery from drug addiction and I can say that all the professional involvement in the world cannot compare with what is learned in the rooms of recovery. I know many, many people who attend AA, NA and Alanon despite their training or experience in the field of medicine or mental health.

The term 'dry drunk' describes a person who manages not to drink but does not manage the problems that lead them to drink, thus they live in turmoil and chaos and those around them suffer as well.

Alcoholism is a biological, psychological, social and spiritual disease requiring treatment and ongoing care. Maybe if you read some of the posts in our AA forums, you might get a different perspective on what it is like for them.

[wazoo1492]

Response to all:

The reason I asked this question is because my best friends A.A. boyfriend is really acting like he is addicted to being "in recovery". I suspect he is a "dry drunk" because he is not facing his problems, rather he seems to be the type of person who cannot be happy unless he's "working" on a problem. Why I'm concerned, because of how he's treating my best friend.

Based on Toad's hostile response I believe my question was indeed answered. Thank you Toad.

[wazoo1492]

By the way, I WASN'T bashing A.A. as a whole. I was simply questioning whether there are situations where A.A. isn't the best program for certain people.

[toad]

Maybe some answers can be found in this prayer found in the book The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions, page 100-101. Thanks for letting me share....toad

THE PRAYER OF ST. FRANCIS


Lord, make me a channel of thy peace,


that where there is hatred, I may bring love;


that where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness;


that where there is discord, I may bring harmony;


that where there is error, I may bring truth;


that where there is doubt, I may bring faith;


that where there is despair, I may bring hope;


that where there are shadows, I may bring light;


that where there is sadness, I may bring joy.


Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted;


to understand, than to be understood;


to love, than to be loved.


For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.


It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.


It is by dying that one awakens to Eternal Life.

[Afraid2Succeed]

Hey Wazoo,
As you can tell, there are some 'sensitive' people (ahem) in AA. That being said, I *do* believe attending AA can become an addiction. I won't even ask whether or not addiction to AA is a disease - according to the disease model of addiction.

Also I disagree w/AA's lifelong stigmatization of its members by calling them drunks. However, I cannot disagree that it helps *some* people abstain from alcohol.

For me, I could not admit 'powerlessness' over my addiction because I work very hard on identifying my triggers, fulfilling my life goals (so I don't have to cope by abusing), and learn how to manage my stress in *positive* ways.

Just my 2 cents.

[toad]

share this with me.........toad

“Surely goodness and mercy will follow me all the days of my life...” (Psalm 23:6).



"Do you know what goodness is? It’s God’s favor. In the above verse, David was saying, “Favor follows me everywhere I go.” David knew he had an advantage. He knew God would assist him. He knew he could expect preferential treatment. David had this favor mentality. All through the Psalms, he constantly talks about God’s favor. You see, something is going to follow you throughout life. If you go around thinking, “Nothing good ever happens to me. I never get any breaks.” Then you’re going to have defeat, mediocrity, and lack following you around. But if you’ll switch over into this favor mentality and say, “God’s favor gives me an advantage. God’s favor is bringing success. God’s favor is making my crooked places straight...” then you’ll have blessings chasing you down! You’ll walk in promotion! You’ll experience increase! You will be destined for success! Choose to have a favor mentality today so you can enjoy the goodness and mercy God has stored up for you!"

Joel Osteen

[toad]

Originally Posted by Afraid2Succeed

Hey Wazoo,
As you can tell, there are some 'sensitive' people (ahem) in AA. That being said, I *do* believe attending AA can become an addiction. I won't even ask whether or not addiction to AA is a disease - according to the disease model of addiction.

Also I disagree w/AA's lifelong stigmatization of its members by calling them drunks. However, I cannot disagree that it helps *some* people abstain from alcohol.

For me, I could not admit 'powerlessness' over my addiction because I work very hard on identifying my triggers, fulfilling my life goals (so I don't have to cope by abusing), and learn how to manage my stress in *positive* ways.

Just my 2 cents.

I just looked at your personal profile and it states that you are not in recovery also. Your 2 cents is about all it's worth in this billion dollar age.......not much indeed.

Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Please respond to this question, then possibly you and I can get on some level we understand..............said in love.........toad

[Afraid2Succeed]

Originally Posted by toad

I just looked at your personal profile and it states that you are not in recovery also. Your 2 cents is about all it's worth in this billion dollar age.......not much indeed.

Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Please respond to this question, then possibly you and I can get on some level we understand..............said in love.........toad

toad, you're a bit overbearing. i suggest you keep your proselytizing to yourself, mate. A true Christian would *not* demean anyone else for having an independent thought. said in love... A2S

[best]

Originally Posted by wazoo1492

By the way, I WASN'T bashing A.A. as a whole. I was simply questioning whether there are situations where A.A. isn't the best program for certain people.

Any program can work for any person. It is a matter of putting yourself into the program fully and using what you learn into action. Half measures don't work.
If he isn't treating her correctly, he isn't learning what he should and that is "his" problem to deal with. She can't change him. Her problem ...if he isn't the right person for her, she can seek another fish in the sea. BUT... you can't change her. She is making her own choices. What would be best for you both... attend Al Anon meetings so you can pick up some more info on how to deal with alcoholics.

[best]

Originally Posted by Afraid2Succeed

toad, you're a bit overbearing. i suggest you keep your proselytizing to yourself, mate. A true Christian would *not* demean anyone else for having an independent thought. said in love... A2S

First off... this is the Christian forum...all are welcome but all who come here are going to hear about Jesus and be given the truth. The truth hurts at times. To not share the truth when the truth needs be told is not sharing in love. To see a person walking towards a huge hole in the ground and coddle them is not a form of love. To shout and say Watch Out there is a huge hole.... Toad is shouting about the hole...are you listening or are you going to keep walking towards it?

[tanyapmc]

I don't know if AA can become an addiction or not. But if I am going to be addicted to something, I would rather it be AA than drugs and alcohol.

I think some people "hide" in the rooms of AA. Life (for me) needs to be about balance. So I go to a meeting most days, and try to have a life outside of the rooms of AA.

[GlassPrisoner]

For me, I could not admit 'powerlessness' over my addiction because I work very hard on identifying my triggers, fulfilling my life goals (so I don't have to cope by abusing), and learn how to manage my stress in *positive* ways.

Does that help you preventing from taking the first drink ? And more importantly, what happens when you do take that first drink ? If you're anything like me, you drink until your out of booze, or pass out, or both.

That is my textbook definition of powerless over alcohol.

To the OP, a lot of us drank daily, so we go daily. As Best pointed out, it's a lifeline. Just like taking insulin or using an inhaler.

Addiction ? No. But most alcoholics are obsessive/compulsive. The word moderation is not in our dictionary. When we do something, we really do something

One last tidbit. A "Dry Drunk" does not drink, but they are usually very unhappy with life. In AA talk, Restless, Irritable and Discontent. I was that way for 5 years until I went back out and had to do more research. The answer still wasn't in the bottle.

[Afraid2Succeed]

Originally Posted by GlassPrisoner

Does that help you preventing from taking the first drink ? And more importantly, what happens when you do take that first drink ? If you're anything like me, you drink until your out of booze, or pass out, or both.

That is my textbook definition of powerless over alcohol.

GP,
let me explain some of my personal thoughts on the subject of powerlessness:

-reduces people's feelings of personal control and can thus become a self-fulfilling prophecy;
- makes mountains out of molehills, since it fails to differentiate between the worst alcoholics and addicts and those with minor substance-use dependence;
- stigmatizes people - in their own minds- for life;
- moves away from accepting the need for self-control and making choices;
- isolates alcoholism and addiction as problems for the rest of the alcoholic's or addict's life.

just my 2 cents.