parable of the prodigal son question

[sojourner]

I struggle with this one - I noticed even when I was a young child that when the son went away to the far country, he truly went away. He did not stop by his dad's to say "hi." He did not call his dad when he ran out of money - he just went and found himself a pig farmer to work for. And his dad did not seek his son out to see where he was living, to assure his son that he loved him and was "there for him," to take him to lunch to make sure he got a decent meal, or contact him in any way. It was only after the son had "come to himself", willing and ready to give up the "far country living," that he went back to his father.

so is this a model for us family members to follow?

Any input would be appreciated...

[rayofsunshine]

II. APPLYING THE PARABLE OF "THE PRODIGAL SON"

A. THE MAIN ELEMENTS ARE EASILY DISCERNED...
1. The father symbolizes our heavenly Father
2. The prodigal son in coming home represents the penitent sinner
3. The elder brother reflected the attitude of the self-righteous
Pharisees and scribes - cf. Lk 15:2

B. THE KEY LESSONS SHOULD BE EVIDENT AS WELL...
1. Our heavenly Father loves His children
a. Even when they turn away from Him, His hearts yearns for
them in love
b. But especially when they return with a penitent attitude
1) There is "joy in heaven" - Lk 15:7
2) There is "joy in the presence of the angels of God" - Lk
15:10
3) It was right to "make merry and be glad" - Lk 15:32
2. The faithful children of God need to understand the proper way
to receive the erring child who returns to God
a. Not with any sibling jealousy, but with joyous celebration!
- Lk 15:32
b. With a strong reaffirmation of love:
1) As illustrated by the father in the parable
2) As Paul instructed the Corinthians in 2 Co 2:6-8

Hi Sojourner... this was taken from a Bible Study found here... http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/pa/pa_28.htm

[sojourner]

thanks rayofsunshine

Does the parable offer us humans a model to follow??

[best]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Does the parable offer us humans a model to follow??

Offers us many models to view and learn from.

From an Anon stand point... The father knew that he could not change his son's mind so he let his son go do what he would do.
Did the father worry? I am sure he did but I would also think he was in prayer daily for every day his son was not around.
Did the father forgive his son? Yes and he welcomed him home with open arm.
Key points... The son learned his lesson. The son was repentive. The son came to his father with a humble heart.
In the book of Romans it tells that we should send the non-repentive person away. We don't send them away because they are doing wrong...we send them away so that they (like the son) may learn that their way is not a good choice. Go and find your bottom and you will be welcomed back after you do so.

For the person just starting out in life (a young teen maybe) The story is a good warning of truth... Do what is right or do as you please. When we do as we please...we find heartache and troubles.

For the brother who was angry that the father gave the repentive son such a party and welcome...the story tells us that we gather in the blessings every day and our daily blessings are greater then a single party given all at once.
In my walk with the Lord...daily I am given blessings. When I was not walking with the Lord...daily I had struggles and discontentment.
I will take the daily blessings over the choices of doing what ever I want.
A sober life and walk with the Lord is the best life I have yet to know.
Jesus gave me my inheritance and let me walk away and do as I please.
Why? Because He knew that one day I would see the errors of my ways and just as the father who waiting and watched daily for his son's return... Jesus ran to me when I turned to come home. Humbled and on my knees...He ran to me and accepted me home.

[sojourner]

I know this is a model once the prodigal has "come to himself."

But is it also a model for us family that we should cut off contact with the addict altogether - no phone calls, no invitation to family gatherings, nothing??? Do we, in essence, shun the addict (emotionally and physically) while he/she is in the far country?

[cmc]

But is it also a model for us family that we should cut off contact with the addict altogether - no phone calls, no invitation to family gatherings, nothing??? Do we, in essence, shun the addict (emotionally and physically) while he/she is in the far country?

I don't think so, because this situation is not included in the story...but what the story is _all_ about is that the father did not attempt to manipulate- in any way- an outcome.

Remember that in the context of this story- the world and culture was a far cry from what we have now. Most likely, the father had no idea where his son was... or maybe he did try to find his lost son. The main idea to me is that the father waited and watched for his son's return.

The greeting at their reunion had to have occured before the son could tell his father anything...so there was no 'wait and see if you are sorry' before that dad ran to embrace his boy.

I see shunning someone as cruel...and twisting the point of this parable. My model is how God treats me and how all the rest of the bible illustrates His being there for us even when we are 'willfully' living in sin and rebellion against Him and His laws.

God won't remove my consequences or condone my sin but He never shuts me out and I can always know that He is there with me. I can and do always pray regardless of where I am or what I am doing. He always hears me and the connection we have may be fractured on my part but never broken by Him.

I'm am a mom of an addict and any boundaries I set are to protect myself- not to force someone else to come to their senses. That will come of it's own- perhaps influenced by my actions but are solely the choice of the prodigal.

I'm wondering what has prompted your question and if you care to discuss it here. Feel free if you wish to share further.

[sojourner]

Sure, i'll share.

I saw this aspect of the parable when I was young and my mom (for which i am eternally grateful) took me to church. My father was alcoholic from the time I was born who found AA at some point but CONSTANTLY relapsed - until he committed suicide..

What i find of interest in this story is that when the prodigal son decided to do wrong, he left the family and did not involve his family in any way - never expected anyone at home to rescue him, give him a place to stay, feed him, etc. I always wondered if it was out of respect for his father's and his father's teachings that he went away and also if the culture had the same attitude re-inforcing that if one decided to go to the far country then one undertook that journey by removing oneself from the family to do it.

When my son chose to go to the far country, he was pretty sure that I should let him stay at my home because of what he called unconditional love, a sense of entitlement, etc. I remember also my husband (now ex) having the same attitude. Probably my father had the same attitude. And I find myself always frustrated and perplexed by that attitude - where did that come from? Did I somehow convey that my home was a "do your own thing" kind of place - or does it come from culture we now live in?

So I guess the idea of shunning in what is my idea of the parable is a two-way street that both the father and son know is ended when and if the son comes out of the far country and can therefore be in relationship with his father again -

[caileesnana]

Why did the son learn his lesson after running off once, and today, they run off again and again doing the same thing over and over?

[sojourner]

caileesnana:

Yours is a good question that I also question - why did the prodigal son not return to his father until he knew he was going to give up his far country living and instead live in such a way that his father approved.

And the bigger question for me is, is it appropriate in our human existence, in today's world and culture - to expect that my son, who is living in the far country, would go away to do it and that I as a parent would expect him to go away to do it and that returning to relationship with me and with his family would mean leaving that far country behind?

[caraway]

Hi sogourner, I think a parable is like an analogy and I think you can take analogies too far. Keep it simple. I'm sure ray of sunshines got it right.

[best]

The terms exegesis and hermeneutics are two fancy words that are very important when trying to pull the meaning from scripture and can be contrasted with eisegesis.

How I remember them (rather then the half page that books use to say what each word is)...

exegesis... Then and there. What the text was saying in the time and understanding of when it was written.

hermeneutics... Taking the then and there and transfering it to todays problems and understandng.

eisegesis... Making what ever we read match up to what ever we want it to say.

So the exegesis of the story would have us find out what the culture of the times were.
A social behavior was expected by all who lived in the community.
A respectful behavior was expected by all who lived in the community.
Ill respect towards a parent was seen as punishable by the community.
For the son to want to go out and do his wild living... he would need do so in another country just about. To do such in his own area would have the community throw his butt out of town or as in old testiment times...stone him to death for such behaviors.

The hermeneutics of the story...well our culture has changed so much in just the past 40 years that we as individuals need to be the community and set our own boundaries for our own family and household.
I remember as a child...if I did something wrong, my neighbors would correct me and if I talked back....they would call my mother and I would really get it then.
Today...if you correct your neighbors kid.... lawyers get called.

So the hermeneutics- taking the then and there into the here and now..(bringing the morals and story into today)
We would set our own boundaries and yes... excommunicate our children from our house if that is what needs be done. Boundaries set so that respect be held where it should be.

[sojourner]

Best - thank you for that explanation -

If i may be so bold to then take your explanation from a different angle, in the culture in which this parable was written, if the son did not leave the home and the father did not make him go away, would both the son AND THE FATHER had their butts thrown out of town?

Or, as in your story of when you were a child, if your mother would not have taken the side of the neighbors and corrected you mightily, what would have happened to your mother???

[best]

Originally Posted by sojourner

Best - thank you for that explanation -

If i may be so bold to then take your explanation from a different angle, in the culture in which this parable was written, if the son did not leave the home and the father did not make him go away, would both the son AND THE FATHER had their butts thrown out of town?

Or, as in your story of when you were a child, if your mother would not have taken the side of the neighbors and corrected you mightily, what would have happened to your mother???

In the story as with my mother... they would be shunned.
Community conscious would not be accepting of such.

[cmc]

sojourner,
I'm going to step out here and say that to try to single out a parable such as this and use aspects of it to fit living in today's world is not always going to work. What was said earlier about this being just a parable/analogy is true. I need to remember the entire context of God's word when making these types of conclusions.

I'm thinking that you are maybe upset about your son and the fact that your husband allowed him to continue to live at home while using. Here's what I learned in Alanon...the 3 C's of alcoholism(in case you haven't heard them before) are:
I didn't Cause it
I can't Cure it
I can't Control it...
Of course there's a fourth C...I can Contribute. I can contribute to recovery or contribute in a negative way.
I've done both of these things by my enabling. I've let him stay at times when he was trying to be clean and times when he wasn't. I always made him leave if he broke a rule or got caught using/lying/stealing...or for any other reason not affiliated with addiction. btw..I'm talking about a grown man in my case.

The point of the parable is that the son had to 'hit bottom' not about whether the father let him come stay there- or if the mother or father were to blame.
I'm just guessing here but I bet the father in the parable ---said 'Go your own way' and had a hands off approach. To say that is what I must do as a Christian is twisting the scripture...a great deal of twisting.

As the heads of our home, my husband and I make rules- boundaries. If these are broken..."we" decide how to enforce, what will happen and under what conditions.
The core of what I think you are asking about is about how far to detach from an active addict. To use this parable to imply that I have no contact from my son when he is active....would not fit with what the rest of the bible has to say. If I need to detach completely and permanently (with good reason) then it's because I need to protect myself, not because as in the story...the young man wanted his fortune to go sow his oats.

I think if you re-read your posts and the replies you will see that there is no justification for abandonment recommended in this parable.
I hope this helps you out.

[rayofsunshine]

The father let the son learn his lesson by leaving him alone and letting him suffer the consequences of his actions. But, the father was there with open and loving arms when the son returned after leaving home to "sow his oats". In camparison, this is sort of like setting boundaries and not enabling our addicts. This doesn't mean banning them or not loving them... it's us getting out of God's way so the addict can suffer the consequences of his actions and God can work in their life.

To enable is to do for the addict what they should be doing for themselves. I was a big enabler to AH for many years because I didn't know what I know now. I thought by doing things for him... paying for his cigarettes, gas, etc. when he ran out of $$, I was helping. But I wasn't, I was enabling. Another part of enabling is making excuses for the addict when they no-show at work, family functions, etc. For the addict to hit their bottom and want to change, we loved ones must stop cushioning their falls and let them suffer the consequences of their actions.

[Spiritual Seeker]

"It was only after the Prodigal son had come to himself, willing and ready to give up the far living that he went back to his 'mama'. " My independent addict son is out there on his own, he needs no shunning bec he isolates himself. I like this story bec it gives me faith that my Prodigal son will return one day...to my open arms. I know that he will !

[fuster]

Lesson from this:

There is no rule in life that says "if it feels good, do it".
There is no rule in life that says "live for today only".
There is no rule in life that says "I deserve to have everything my way".
There is no rule in life that says "life is always fair to me".
There is no rule in life that says "I deserve credit for everything I do for others".
There is no rule in life that says "foregiveness is unhealthy and won't cure evil".

[cmc]

Thank you ray> Love properly expressed does work wonders.
When my prodigal was out 'missing' on the streets my prayer was for him to come to his senses. He did come to his senses in jail about 2 days after his arrest and has been clean 15 months now. I am so grateful and give God the glory.

Prayers going out for the prodigals that they come to their senses safely and soon.