I believe

[doorknob]

Originally Posted by CarolD

I am with the BB's 87 references to recovered.

I noticed that at 10 or so years of continued sobriety I began thinking of myself as recovered. I still do years later.

I care not what others say...it's their affair.
Just my opinion...

Rock on Carol!

DK

P.S. Are you done editing yet?

[ron52]

"To show other alcoholics precisely how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book." BB, Page xiii, line 4-5. [emphasis from original]

Hi, all! Ron here, gratefully recovered alcoholic and brand new to this forum. Haven't had time to read many posts as yet, but I'm impressed with what I've seen so far. I'm glad I found this site and hope I can contribute in some small way.

When I say I am 'recovered', that should not be interpreted as meaning there is "nothing more I need to do to stay sober." In my case, I 'recovered' the moment my compulsion to drink was removed. From that moment on, I have not had to expend one drop of energy to stay sober.

The only on-going, life-long process for me now is to continue to grow personally and spiritually. My method for accomplishing this is to live my life within the framework of the steps, ie., continue to apply the principles of the twelve steps in all my affairs.

My best guess as to the origin of this myth of life-long recovery is that the treatment industry gains financially by perpetuating it.

BTW---The subtitle of the book Alcoholics Anonymous is: The Story of How Many Thousands of Men and Women Have Recovered from Alcoholism. [emphasis mine]

[CarolD]

Hi Ron and Welcome to SR!

This is a super supplement to my 'real' recovery.

SR has such a wealth of info and ideas that are not available in my small town AA.

And of course...it is on 24/7.

I hope you do stay with us...Blessings

OK! OK! You say to-may-to...I say to-mah-to...

Not to belabor the issue...but, might I remind you that the original text of the BB was written almost 70 years ago...and, unless I'm mistaken, and I'm sure you'll let me know, if I am , the only revisions have been to the stories of the alcoholics section of the BB. This was many years before alcoholism was officially recognized as a disease.

My best guess as to the origin of this myth of life-long recovery is that the treatment industry gains financially by perpetuating it.

Sorry, Ron...I miss the point here...except for an initial detox and/or rehab, "There are no dues or fees for AA membership; WE are self-supporting through our own contributions." So, I fail to see how the treatment industry gains financially if, as you described so well in your own prescription for recovery:

The only on-going, life-long process for me now is to continue to grow personally and spiritually. My method for accomplishing this is to live my life within the framework of the steps, ie., continue to apply the principles of the twelve steps in all my affairs.

In keeping with the title of this thread, "I believe" alcoholism is a disease much the same as others (such as diabetes), in that it can be controlled but never fully cured. By the Grace of God and The Fellowship of AA (both of which come with a price, yet cost nothing), hopefully I will continue to get better, although I never expect to be well.

And that, for what it's worth is

Just my opinion.

[ragidiman]

kind of short, but I will keep replying.

raerob: misinterpretation is somewhat easy here, I usually find some kind of
humor in all things. please help me out a little, for the misunderstanding
was my fault and not yours. Maybe just a smiley face would have helped
to better my ability to catch the humor, sorry.

LuLu: You also show respect, sorry I let another post reply temp. blind me
this was also my fault and not yours.

Too all: I go back to reread all replies and still only see respect.

thanx: I'll be bach" holla!

And I still believe:::::

[ron52]

CarolD,

Thank you! I'm thinking I'll be around a while.

[ron52]

Good mornin', raerob,

True enough, the BB was written nearly thirty years ago. And while there have been a few minor changes made to the text of the first section between the first, second, and third editions as well as between some printings of them, the original content and intent of the authors remains intact for the first 164+ pages. Also, while "alcoholism" has not been "officially recognized as a disease" in the US (to my knowledge) alcohol dependence (addiction) is, but I'm puzzled---What does any of this trivia have to do with the fact that I and many, many others have recovered from our addiction(s)?

The treatment industry gains financially by way of the "revolving door" aspect of treatment/relapse/treatment/relapse, making money each time one of us walks through the doors. Please don't take me for a conspiracy theorist. I don't for a minute think any of it is an evil plot. Just that the profit is there, and they have no incentive to dispel the myth.

OK, that's the treatment industry. You mentioned initial detox and AA in the same breath. Detoxification is a serious matter my last detox was a bona fide medical emergency), and is best done under medical supervision. I don't consider it to be part of the treatment industry because they're not trying to treat my addiction. And AA is not part of the treatment industry at all.

What you described as "my own prescription of recovery" is not mine nor was it a prescription for my recovery. I got it freely from the BB (pages 59-60) and I have been using it seemingly quite effectively for my personal and spiritual growth in an effort not to squander the gift of sobriety I was given.

I believe alcoholism is an addiction. I am living free from the compulsion to drink, and I am living free from fear of relapse. Today, I am no more likely to drink a bottle of booze than a bottle of bleach. I no longer think about drinking alcohol and I no longer have to think about not drinking it. For me, that is the definition of 'recovered.'

As you say, just my opinion.

misinterpretation is somewhat easy here

True, Ragidiman...it's easy to have the written word be misunderstood (especially when you're unable to see my big smiley face as I type away here.) I'm certainly not intending to ridicule or be hurtful to anyone...I guess my sense of humor has always been a bit sarcastic; but I mean no harm. I'll be sure to let you know from now on when I'm just kidding around.

WOW, Ron! I see by your profile you're retired and enjoy studying the history of AA...I never would have guessed (about studying the history of AA, I mean).

Also, while "alcoholism" has not been "officially recognized as a disease" in the US (to my knowledge) alcohol dependence (addiction) is...

Actually, I think it has been.

You mentioned initial detox and AA in the same breath. I don't consider it to be part of the treatment industry because they're not trying to treat my addiction. And AA is not part of the treatment industry at all.

WHAT!?! I never implied that AA was "part of the treatment industry"...merely that treatment costs, while AA is free of charge, although it does require a great deal of concentrated effort on the part of the recovering alcoholic.

...I have not had to expend one drop of energy to stay sober.

I am shocked and dismayed!!! All these 26 years, I must have been doing something wrong when I've spent countless hours going over The Steps with my sponsors and with those I have sponsored...Thank God all that expended energy paid off and I've stayed sober.

Lastly, and then I'll put my away...

this myth of life-long recovery

For AA to be described thus, I feel is very dangerous...particularly since this is a forum for "Newcomers to Recovery". "Myth" suggests the concept is untrue/imagined.

Now, I think it's about time to drag away this dead horse we've beaten to a pulp...it has served its purpose and deserves a proper burial. I hope you can see that I'm LOL, Ragidiman.

[ragidiman]

If this is helping U stay sober, then Im OK with it.

[Don S]

Originally Posted by raerob

this myth of life-long recovery

For AA to be described thus, I feel is very dangerous...particularly since this is a forum for "Newcomers to Recovery". "Myth" suggests the concept is untrue/imagined.

It's worth pointing out that the concept is not shared by other recovery groups.
Welcome to SR, Ron!

It's worth pointing out that the concept is not shared by other recovery groups.

That may very well be true...but, AA is the original 12 Step Group from which all other 12 Step Groups have evolved; and, it is the recovery group where I learned how to stay sober; so, I can only feel comfortable passing on the words of wisdom
spoken by the old-timers in my home group (several with 50+ years of sobriety).

[ron52]

First, you have my respect for 26 years sober!

Second, I agree this is probably not the proper venue for our discussion. I'm young and impetuous and can get carried away at times. Anyway, if we continued to a logical end I think we would find we are both saying the same thing, but operating within different paradigms.

Lastly, I did not use the phrase "this myth of life-long recovery" to describe AA or anything about AA. I thought I was quite clear that the founding members considered themselves recovered, that the BB describes the path we should follow when we decide we want what they had, and that I found through my personal experience that this is true! Neither I nor anyone else who thoroughly follows the path needs to think they will be "recovering" or "in recovery" until their natural days are over.

Ok, I'm done now.

Can we say, "Apples and Oranges"?

Ok, I'm done now.

Ditto...just as soon as I look this one up.

paradigms

Thats ME LMAO...because I went to the Newcomers forum and saw this thread had been moved. "What?", says I (I often talk to myself when no one else is around)...so, I went on a hunt for the missing thread.

Lo and Behold (two alcoholic friends of mine)...found the errant thread here in Cafe Central...not exactly sure why, since I haven't been around the SR block long enough to learn all the ins and outs. My guess is we posters wandered so far up, down, and around the original topic (we sure did cover a lot of ground in a couple of weeks) that TPTB decided we should take our ramblings elsewhere: Cafe Central.

I, for one, am pleased to have an opportunity to view another forum that I may not have bothered to log into otherwise...Thank You, TPTB...in your wisdom, you have broadened my horizons! Also, maybe the importance of "staying on topic"?

[kellie351969]

Raerob

I Didnt Say It Was My Program I Said Thats What I Did That Day You See I Drank One Day And Havent Drank Since I Do Not Intend To Drink Everyday Nor Will I It Was Just For The Day And By All Means If It Worked It Worked I Didnt Say I Would Use It Everyday I Probably Wont Drink Again Until September Which I Drink On The 19 Of Every September . Im Not Suggesting Other People Use The Method I Use But I Know Me And It Work
Believe Me If I Thought About Drinking Everyday Just To Not Use My Doc I Would Just Go Back To My Doc Instead It Just Worked For That Day Cancer Is Not Something You Want To Hear When It Is Somebody You Care About And My Recovery Is Still Pretty New So I Had 3 Drinks To Settle Me Down

Cancer Is Not Something You Want To Hear When It Is Somebody You Care About And My Recovery Is Still Pretty New So I Had 3 Drinks To Settle Me Down

Sorry, Kellie...not about my original remark, which was meant (more or less) in a kidding way; but, because you had apparently gotten some bad news about a friend/family member, and that's why you drank...even though it was just a few on one night.

You say

It Just Worked For That Day

...what you don't seem to realize is that you were "medicating" yourself with alcohol to "settle" yourself down. Just because you didn't use your drug of choice, this made it OK, to your way of thinking. I'm not going to argue the point with you...but, just suppose:

I get some bad news...maybe about one of my kids. I know I can't drink, because I'm an alcoholic! But, maybe I'll just smoke a little weed "to settle me down". After all, I haven't used my drug of choice (alcohol), and I promise myself it was just this once...never again. Does that make it OK? Can I still consider myself clean and sober? I don't think so...not if I'm being totally honest.

Do you maybe see what I meant now?

[mickaila]

hello raerob
this is kellie had to change user name due to snooping family members just so your not confused by hte reply
im not saying that it is ok for everybody and hell im an addict thinkin obvisiously is not my strong point in the first place lol but this is my take on it im not saying it is a good idea for other people but i do know myself and your right i did medicate myself hell i could of taken a xanax which is prescribed for that reason but i like them and can for see a n addiction in the making with them and yes that dr that prescribed them knows im a recovering addict so i choose alcohol becuz i know that i dont like it but needed something to clam down was it the proper response to how i was feeling for me yes for other people that would be there choice on whether the could drink once and not again but i did do this i called my doctor and requested that we look for something that is non narcotic non addicting for me im new at this recovery thing 53 days and took large amounts of oc 10-20 a day so i think 3 drinks was better choice than that choice. i know it would of be better not to do anything but that is not what happen and i dont regret having a few drinks i stopped crying for just a little while got through the night with out oc and called my md and shrink the next day

[angelgirl]

I still love ya Rag


Becky

[ragidiman]

I would like the people here at SR "members or guests" ta do sompin for me.

I get inspiration sometimes from music, and movies and many other forms

of entertainment.

I ask for yall to watch the movie "Matrix Revolutions" and portray the two

main characters: Smith and Neo, Smith as addiction and Neo as our

inner strength, will power if you will ?

all and if, any of the others you can portray them as you choose.

Just pay special attention to words used especially the last 1/2 hour or so.

and the very last words of the movie.


Let me know what U think

Peace out.

[ragidiman]

Dont everybody speak at once!

Just let me know, I aint leaving yet.

holla