Addiction is a choice

[Overman]

By Schaler.

Anyone read it? What are your thoughts?

[Attyma]

No, but wow, if it were I would choose no.

[Overman]

He makes a pretty radical argument that addiction is simply a behavior that people rationally choose to engage in, despite the negative social consequences.

And that most people "quit on their own" when the consequences become too unbearable.

[Philly]

I guess I'll have to read that one. I do think my addiction was formed by habit that I choose to partake in and I did see the consequences become too unbearable. But if I believe that theory than I should be able to have a few drinks without becoming addicted again and I am afraid to try out that theory since it has not worked for many.

[Overman]

IIRC, Schaler doesn't deny the 'powerlessness' aspect of the alcohol compulsion...he just says that addicts ultimately make a conscious effort to engage in addictive behavior (which snowballs over time)...and a conscious effort to quit.

I remember one of the first AA meetings I went to and I was told I was powerless over the problem. I responded "Well, I'm here, aren't I?".

[Grateful Heart]

Except it takes a lot more effort to quit than it does to become addicted :-( Grateful Heart.

[Overman]

Exactly!

[Angelic17]

I read it, and its very controversial. Some people think it is a choice. And some people KNOW it is a disease. It's only a choice the first time you try the substance. After that it's a disease. Thanks for posting.

[TryingisDying]

No I haven't read it...Nor would I even pick it up. I know I have a disease because I would have chosen this path knowingly lol...

[Overman]

@ Ang
And some people KNOW it is a disease. It's only a choice the first time you try the substance. After that it's a disease. Thanks for posting

'Disease' as an analogy. It's a choice until your brain chemistry changes and your body becomes 'powerless' over it.

[Overman]

@ Trying
No I haven't read it...Nor would I even pick it up. I know I have a disease because I would have chosen this path knowingly lol...

No one sets out to be an addict. All the author says is that certain choices have a cummulative effect on the individual...which often ends up being labeled 'addiction'.

If something can be learned, it can be unlearned...thus if you choose to become addicted, you can choose to break the cycle...ala meetings, sponsors, whatever works.

[Bamboozle]

Originally Posted by Overman

If something can be learned, it can be unlearned...thus if you choose to become addicted, you can choose to break the cycle...ala meetings, sponsors, whatever works.

Addiction is not a choice.

Behavior, however, is a choice. Behavior can be engaged or not. Addiction? It's there no matter what.

If addiction is truly a choice then I can sit down with a couple of drinks and stop. I've tried that before many times. It doesn't work. I’m still addicted.

Knowing this has been empowering. I can choose whether or not to engage in that behavior. The choice is always in the behavior. Behavior can be modified...and that's a good thing.

[Bamboozle]

I would like to add that I've had addiction problems ever since I was a kid. I couldn't get enough junk food. Actually, my food addiction is probably worse than my alcohol problem.

Addiction (to various things) is a big problem in my family. Quite a few have some addictions...and curiously, others don't.

[Eroica]

I haven't read the book.. but a lot of professionals have proposed that addiction is a choice. Yes, some people may not be able to stop after having a few drinks, but if you never take that 1st drink then how are u addicted now? To be addicted means that you can't get away from that substance despite trying to.. but if you're not consuming it at all then you're choosing to be "not addicted." You can choose to become addicted again by drinking so much you need to detox, but then it was a choice to start up again.

[tsukiko]

I think this book sounds damn interesting...cheers for the heads up on it!

I do believe drugs or drink are a choice, and that to an extent then so is addiction. Drugs and drink are a choice we take knowing that addiction is one possible outcome. And it isn't like rolling a dice because using once is not going to create an addict...we actively participate numerous times over a period of months or years...and we still have a choice.

I also dont agree with the whole powerless thing. I'm not powerless...If I were I wouldn't be here now. I think we all have power, its just some of us don't use it, some of use ain't ready to realise it, but there is always a choice ultimatly.

Calling it a disease removes culpability and responsibility. That's two things I needed to know i had: power and choice...both to be what i'd become and to change that.

It was feeling powerfless, weak, unable, etc that got me in half the trouble in the first place. I didn't need any more excuses to wallow or think 'well, I can't help this'. I needed to realise that...'hey, even in the gutter i have choices, so what're they gonna' be?'

Contriversial, no doubt. But that's how I see it. I'm speaking for myself, I respect whatever anyone else believes, of course.

Once again, thanks - def' gonig to check this book out.

[Bamboozle]

Hello, Eroica. I've had addictive behaviors way before I've started drinking...mostly with food. I've been this way as long as I can remember.

[PaperDolls]

Originally Posted by Overman

He makes a pretty radical argument that addiction is simply a behavior that people rationally choose to engage in, despite the negative social consequences.

And that most people "quit on their own" when the consequences become too unbearable.

When consequences become too unbearable -- like death. That's when some people stop.



Obviously i don't agree that it's a choice but i do appreciate you posting this Overman. i don't think I'd read the book only because I think I'd end up being a bit annoyed.

[ex D-Boy]

Its an interesting book, my parents bought it for me a few years ago when my drug addiction first came to light. They thought if I read the book and applied his logic I would stop shooting up.

The debate on whether addiction is a choice or a disease....heheh it never gets old. When it comes down to it... does it matter?? If its a choice, make the right one. If its a disease, cure it.

I do kind of agree with one point he makes in his book about how when an addict is in active use they are not powerless, that its the exact opposite. They have somewhat of an "iron-will" to stay high. It applied to me very much, because when I was running around out there getting high I made sure that I had my dope everyday whether or not I had any money, a car to get to the dealer, a phone etc.

Then he makes some other very outrageous statements about how once a former addict piles up some clean time a lot of them can go back to moderation of drugs or drinking. that one just blew my mind!! a phd doctor saying these things, lol.

nice avatar btw overman

[Gypsy Feet]

FOR MY OWN DRINKING, I believe he hits the nail on the head (I've read a book that talked about this very thing, not sure if it was his). I made a choice to quit, so I did. The reason I cant have just one, is because I don't want just one. I like the effect booze has on me, first drink taking a little edge off, next one feeling warm and fuzzy, third and forth I am happier and funnier, 5th one I think I can dance and so on.
At some point I decided being loose and numb and worry free was a feeling I wanted every night. Stay sober and the stress of life leaks in, and you start noticing all the things wrong in and around you. easy solution, get hammered. Pain gone.

I might still be going this way, but the last night I got drunk and blacked out I did reprehensible things. The next morning, hearing the tale, I felt like a victim of alien abduction or demonic possession. I am no puppet, nothing and no one gets to pull my strings. I decide which laws to break, who I hurt, and what morals or beliefs I hold, booze doesn't get a say anymore.

[PeaceTrain]

There is another book out now that is getting a great deal of buzz and it proposes the same premise. This fellow is a Harvard psychologist (I suppose that gives him some credibility!) Addiction: A Disorder of Choice by Gene M. Heyman
I haven't read it, so I cannot give a synopsis.

[ex D-Boy]

thanks peace i'll have to look into that book also

[Outvoid]

Originally Posted by Overman

He makes a pretty radical argument that addiction is simply a behavior that people rationally choose to engage in, despite the negative social consequences.

I find it a bit silly to say that someone who engages repeatedly in a ritualistic, destructive, seemingly-compulsive behavior is making a rational choice each time to repeat the behvaior.

Sounds like this author is trying to de-throne psychology as a whole.

--Outvoid--

[Lavash]

There is a booked called "Depression is a Choice" and I read it many many years ago and reread it again last year.
The title often sparks anger in people with depression because they feel like depression is an illness that they have no contol over.

I read the book and can say that I believe depression (which I have) is a choice and CAN be changed with behavioral therapy. And I also think addictions are a choice which again CAN be changed with proper cognitive therapies.
ALL the power is in our own minds, it's how one decides to perceive it makes all the difference.

We are NOT powerless to some illness and or disease.........

[dgillz]

Using and drinking are behaviours and we choose to start doing them. Addiction is completely different.

There are scientific studies using lab rats and making alcohol the only drink available to them for a time. Then later making alcohol, water, and more and better food available to them. For whatever reason, about 12% of the rats stayed on a mostly alcohol diet while the other 88% partook of water and more food. Those 12% are addicts.

I believe people are the same way, not everyone that drinks/uses gets sucked into addiction. However we do have a lot more ability to make a conscious decision to stop drinking/using.

[least]

Originally Posted by dgillz

Using and drinking are behaviours and we choose to start doing them. Addiction is completely different.

There are scientific studies using lab rats and making alcohol the only drink available to them for a time. Then later making alcohol, water, and more and better food available to them. For whatever reason, about 12% of the rats stayed on a mostly alcohol diet while the other 88% partook of water and more food. Those 12% are addicts.

I believe people are the same way, not everyone that drinks/uses gets sucked into addiction. However we do have a lot more ability to make a conscious decision to stop drinking/using.

I agree. It was my concious choice to start having a glass of wine before the kids got home from school so i'd be in a better mood, but it didnt' take long before I was addicted and couldn't stop on my own, even knowing the damage I was doing to myself and others.

Having relapsed more times than I'd like to recall, I now know that I cannot have even one drink, cause my brain chemistry is wired differently than most peoples'. I'm an alcoholic, choosing to keep my addiction at bay by not drinking at all.