Vulgarity

[toad]

Got a guy at a meeting I attend who uses the MF word knowing that it will offend some of the older ladies (my opinion). I think he likes to watch them squirm with uneasyness (also my opinion). I want to thump him (spiritually speaking).

Any opinions about vulgarity

[Lenina]

toad,

You might ask him point-blank if he realizes he uses the vulgarity? I think some of it has gotten so in the public, he may not realize. The way I've heard some vulgarity used while standing in line at the bank, waiting at the check-out counters and just walking along in a mall leaves me to believe many are aware of their language!

It doesn't offend me as much as I think it's just plain rude.

Love,

Lenina

[Rowan]

I was at a speaker meeting last week and the kid at the podium had about 9 months in. He used a couple of four-letter words, but I let it slide - until he dropped the F-bomb - and then referred to himself as a p*ssy. I found him very offensive. Standing at the front of the room, as a recovering alcoholic, he sure didn't sell me on what he had going on.

[Terranaught]

He's unwell and in whole or part being eaten alive by his own emotions. If it were really just too much to put up with I would approach him on that level instead of letting his emotional unease act like fly paper to catch a combatant who would then take on his toxicity unintentionally. It's important not to go to meetings to come away with noise in your own gut.

[toad]

Originally Posted by Lenina

toad,

You might ask him point-blank if he realizes he uses the vulgarity? I think some of it has gotten so in the public, he may not realize. The way I've heard some vulgarity used while standing in line at the bank, waiting at the check-out counters and just walking along in a mall leaves me to believe many are aware of their language!

It doesn't offend me as much as I think it's just plain rude.

Love,

Lenina

He knows he is using vulgarity. He is an educated man and very intellectual. He does it on purpose. I have noticed over the past 10 years (my opinion again) that he is still spiritually sick, and struggles with those of us who go to church. I am no stranger to using vulgarity, but I try and realize when not to use it. Actually when I got sober in 1998, my mouth was one of the first parts of my body to get some cleaning (house cleaning)

thanks for sharing..........toad

[Lenina]

toad,

Well, then that's a different matter. I have no suggestions other than perhaps the meeting chair could ask at the beginning of the meeting to please try to keep it clean. I've seen this happen in one meeting I used to attend.

Love,

Lenina

[toad]

Originally Posted by Terranaught

He's unwell and in whole or part being eaten alive by his own emotions. If it were really just too much to put up with I would approach him on that level instead of letting his emotional unease act like fly paper to catch a combatant who would then take on his toxicity unintentionally. It's important not to go to meetings to come away with noise in your own gut.

Why would someone put out an emotional flypaper.

That trash belongs in the burn barrel.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by toad

Got a guy at a meeting I attend who uses the MF word knowing that it will offend some of the older ladies (my opinion). I think he likes to watch them squirm with uneasyness (also my opinion). I want to thump him (spiritually speaking).

Any opinions about vulgarity

Sure... Because you asked....

You be in charge of you and let him be in charge of him.
If he don't drink he may one day get sober, but until then.... All bets are off.
Keep coming back.

TonyB

[Astro]

It's unnecessary, but I'll admit to dropping an F-bomb in small group discussions now and then. I guess it bugs me when someone laces their entire share with profanity. Eff this, eff that, eff, eff, eff. To me it sounds kind of unintelligent.

I do agree with Tony though, whatever anyone else says isn't any of my business. I'll just do my best to keep my side of the street (and my mouth) clean.

[toad]

Originally Posted by TonyB

Sure... Because you asked....

You be in charge of you and let him be in charge of him.
If he don't drink he may one day get sober, but until then.... All bets are off.
Keep coming back.

TonyB

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your honesty. I respect what you have to say. My question is, do you think it is alright for a person who has a definite problem with church and people who attend church, to use vulgarity intentionally knowing it will offend others. I think that this is a lack of respect and outright rude behavior.

I am reminded of a line in the movie Lonesome Dove, when Woodrow Call whipped the Army Sargent and said to the people standing by, "I don't tolerate rude behavior in a man."

I asked the man to respond on this forum and he refused to defend his behavior in the presence of strangers.

I have dealt with the problem. Probably not in the most diplomatic way, but I was honest and assertive, maybe agressive might be the best word to use for my actions. I will not drink over the experience, and the other person has over 30 years, and I doubt if they will drink over it.

"Love and tolerance is our code," but I don't have to let someone continue to disrespect me and those I love.

Thanks for letting me vent Tony..........guess what? "I love you and there is not a damn thing you can do about it."

[toad]

Originally Posted by Astro

whatever anyone else says isn't any of my business..

I disagree with this Astro. I hope we can agree to disagree peacefully. I do respect what you have to say on this forum.

Anything said in my presence that is meant to be disrespectful to me and my beliefs is my business. I will let someone walk on me a little, and that is tolerance, but you keep stomping and I'm going to bust your azz (spiritualy speaking).

[Zencat]

I do let the f-bombs fly in my day to day speech. Its nothing that I find out of the ordinary. Having it so much of what I say in the F2F meeting or otherwise world I pay it no mind. They just come out. I do know its a ******* trip not to see my common verbiage get ushered out on SR. But there is a sensor on this site...be it automatic or something...its just as well....Maybe I'm an stepchild Osborn...who ******* knows.

[TonyB]

Originally Posted by toad

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your honesty. I respect what you have to say. My question is, do you think it is alright for a person who has a definite problem with church and people who attend church, to use vulgarity intentionally knowing it will offend others. I think that this is a lack of respect and outright rude behavior.

I am reminded of a line in the movie Lonesome Dove, when Woodrow Call whipped the Army Sargent and said to the people standing by, "I don't tolerate rude behavior in a man."

I asked the man to respond on this forum and he refused to defend his behavior in the presence of strangers.

I have dealt with the problem. Probably not in the most diplomatic way, but I was honest and assertive, maybe agressive might be the best word to use for my actions. I will not drink over the experience, and the other person has over 30 years, and I doubt if they will drink over it.

"Love and tolerance is our code," but I don't have to let someone continue to disrespect me and those I love.

Thanks for letting me vent Tony..........guess what? "I love you and there is not a damn thing you can do about it."

My point is simply this....
AA is about getting sober! This is not a social club like some people want to treat it. I'm not pointing my finger at you, that is just a generalized statement. Our primary focus is to help alcoholics achieve sobriety, not to limit them in their speech and to prevent them giving offense to old ladies.
I'm a hard core drunk. This guy just needs someone to properly sponsor him.
It's time to read that big book to this guy and stop hitting him with it.
Just my opinion and we all know about them....
I have seen some pretty rough things in my time around AA. Have even seen guys draw down on each other in the parking lot. Chairs thrown, fights break out... You name it.... Bottom line.... Did he drink today? Then he might get sober one day.
Love and Respect
TonyB

[Astro]

Originally Posted by toad

I disagree with this Astro. I hope we can agree to disagree peacefully. I do respect what you have to say on this forum.

Anything said in my presence that is meant to be disrespectful to me and my beliefs is my business. I will let someone walk on me a little, and that is tolerance, but you keep stomping and I'm going to bust your azz (spiritualy speaking).

I'm not going to disagree with you, toad. On the contrary I'm going to learn from your wisdom and let you lead by your example.

Bottom line.....there's tolerance....and there's being a doormat. I do need to be aware of the two, and to set a boundary when I'm not being respected.

Thank you.

[baggervance]

I grew up in construction so yall know what kind of mouth I have. I try and keep it clean in the rooms sometimes I slip. The people in after care drop the F-Bomb alot to much to suit me. There are quite a few ladies in there I can tell some of them dont like it. Alot in my opinion do it for attention I say that and I still talk bad even when Im alone I cuss.

[CStyle]

Good stuff, I decided after hanging around the rooms for a couple of years that I did not want to cuss while sharing in meetings. I felt that it made me sound ignorant. It was a personal choice, another one of those standards that I have no right holding others too. I am reminded of this passage from page 417 of the BB. " And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today.
When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, or
situation - some fact of my life - unacceptable to me, and I can find
no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as
being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment.
Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake.
Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober ; unless I
accept life on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate
not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what
needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes."

[Gypsy Feet]

I attend 2 very different types of meetings. The ones in the smaller community where I live are mostly older, affluent people with really big sober numbers. The ones down town at the alano club have lots of newcomers, court cards and youngsters. The ones near me not to many people cuss, but at the alano club cussing is met with laughter and (for lack of a better way to phrase it) common understanding. The cussing at the alano club actually seems to make some people feel like they fit in better.

People who are blatantly disrespectful in a place of healing suck, I hope you are wrong about his motives.

[Goat]

I suppose this thread isn't quite talked out, 'cause I have a slightly different point of view.

First of all, there does not exist a permutation of words capable of causing me offense.

However, when someone utters a string of words that I believe would cause someone else in the room offense, my brain involuntarily reduces my perception of the credibility of the speaker.

In the case of someone who uses a lot of profane language, I very quickly tune them out completely.

This is probably not the best thing I could do, since that person may have something important to say, no matter how inarticulate he or she may be.

In my own speech, I use a small amount of profanity, but only for appropriate audiences, and almost always only for comedic effect. In fact, I think the word "freakin'" is much funnier than it's profane counterpart, so I use it quite a bit more often

This was a good thread for me to read, Toad, thank you for starting it.

-Goat

[Sober25]

I guess I see this differently than most people on this thread. What's wrong with profanity at AA meetings? I'm sure we heard plenty at the bars we drank at or from the people we drank with. Did we complain? I sure didn't, and I've been known to say a few choice words myself. In our area profanity is not at all uncommon at meetings. F bombs are pretty much expected, and it is usually the women who do it. Personally I don't have a problem with it. I think people should be allowed to share openly and honestly.

[toad]

Originally Posted by Sober25

I guess I see this differently than most people on this thread. What's wrong with profanity at AA meetings? I'm sure we heard plenty at the bars we drank at or from the people we drank with. Did we complain? I sure didn't, and I've been known to say a few choice words myself. In our area profanity is not at all uncommon at meetings. F bombs are pretty much expected, and it is usually the women who do it. Personally I don't have a problem with it. I think people should be allowed to share openly and honestly.

My question to you is, if you know that someone at a meeting would be offended by vulgarity, is it cool to go ahead and say something to cause offense?

AA is not a bar scene........a long ways from it!

[Sober25]

Originally Posted by toad

My question to you is, if you know that someone at a meeting would be offended by vulgarity, is it cool to go ahead and say something to cause offense?

AA is not a bar scene........a long ways from it!

When I go to a meeting I do not go with a plan - that is to say I have not determined in advance if I will share or not. If I choose to share it is because I have something I feel I need to say or something I feel needs to be said. I don't concern myself with how every person in the room may take it. I am not responsible for other people's feelings, resentments or thoughts. Also, like I mentioned before, it is very common in our area, and it's usually the ladies that do it.

[toad]

Originally Posted by Sober25

I don't concern myself with how every person in the room may take it. I am not responsible for other people's feelings .

If I felt this way, I would have to do a daily personal inventory and see if possibly I was being somewhat selfcentered.........This is just my opinion of myself and the possible situation. No reference to you in my response.

thanks for letting me share..........toad

[Sober25]

Originally Posted by toad

If I felt this way, I would have to do a daily personal inventory and see if possibly I was being somewhat selfcentered.........This is just my opinion of myself and the possible situation. No reference to you in my response.

thanks for letting me share..........toad

Have you ever heard of codependency? No offense intended, but you may want to read up on it. I know I am responsible for me. I cannot control, nor should I even try to control, what goes on in someone else's head. If someone wants to criticize the speech of others they may want to consider being less critical, less judgmental and more tolerant - and maybe stop looking for opportunities to be offended. It sounds like the self-centeredness would come in with the person who believes that everyone else should talk in a way that does not offend them.

[toad]

Originally Posted by Sober25

It sounds like the self-centeredness would come in with the person who believes that everyone else should talk in a way that does not offend them.

You have missed the point. ........ the question was is it okay to use vulgarity knowing that it would offend?

Do we have a right to hurt someone at the expense of our own sharing?

Here is a quote from the Big Book.....explain to me where it might fit into offending someone with vulgarity.....

"Our real purpose is to fit ourselves to be of maximum service to God and the people about us." Page 77

[Sober25]

I get the point. I just don't agree with you. I don't have a right to tell someone else what they can or cannot say at an AA meeting - or anywhere else for that matter. Nor am I able to control their thoughts, feelings or resentments. Also, no one has the right to tell me what I can or cannot say at meetings. We each are responsible for our own behavior - and only our own.

Now I could choose to be really self-centered and assume that I have the right to tell others what they can or cannot say, and if they choose to say something that I've arbitrarily declared to be offensive then I could judge them, criticize them or even talk about them behind their back. If I were in that frame of mind I suppose I would then feel like I was very rightous and better than the person who dared to say a word that I had declared to be offensive.

One person in the meeting has no power, or right, to decide what everyone else can or cannot say. If you and I were in a meeting and I knew you were offended by a certain word I would figure you probably were looking to be offended and if I didn't offend you then someone else would. I would also hope that you would be willing to look at yourself and perhaps realize that it is your problem - not mine or the others in the room. AA does not have a banned word list. Nor do we allow those who want to assume the role of a moral compass to dictate what words are objectionable.

I suppose every meeting I've ever been to, AA or otherwise, someone has said something I wasn't crazy about, but that's life. We don't get to make the rules for others.

I am sorry that you get offended at meetings, but I do think the problem is not in what others are saying, but how you are allowing it to affect you.