Aellyce

Courage, I want to "thank" that multiple times but the system does not allow that. Could not agree more.

I've had multiple student-mentor relationships in my past where the mentors treated me almost automatically as equals -- it was very nice, but no longer a true student-mentor relationship, more like a friendship and to be honest, sometimes it developed into even more intimate situations.

Then when I "grew up" to be in that situation from the other end, I found myself slipping into similar scenarios several times, I never crossed (or ignored) boundaries as much as many of my past mentors but still too far a few times. These days I'm happy with how I am managing these things and don't tend to run into complicated situations, but this is because I've learned from my repeated experiences.

The natural "cognitive gaps" I still tend to dismiss at times; usually realize what happened soon, but it happens because I need to work with people at so many different levels and stages in both their professional and personal development.

One thing I recognized a good while ago that I can learn from my students if I am open to it is how to handle the emotional elements of the relationships better and how to use everyone's reactions for mutual growth. I love to engage in these kinds of "exercises". In more classic descriptions and literature, it's pretty much the idea of what transference/countertransference is in psychotherapy (and in life...). I really, really love to use any information that can arise this way and use it for growth, given of course that we can identify them. Do it with students, mentors, friends, family, lovers, pretty much any adult relationship. One reason why I was so drawn to my current therapist also is because he is passionately into these things and seemingly effortlessly works with them in all sorts of areas in a way that seems and feels most natural and sometimes honestly makes my jaw drop. So in this context, he's also a mentor for me because I'm learning a lot in this area (obviously a lay person compared to him) and can use it in my work relationships. And try to be more careful about these things in my personal relationships -- it's a huge challenge for me.

RobbyRobot

Yup.

I also think in some situations, and even within already established progressive learning cases, its better to leave certain things as is rather than to encourage new learning. As D said, I agree its really a case by case basis otherwise we get into the slippery slope of generalizations.

Leaving others in ignorance is of course a grave disservice. My inquiries are more about how does one finally decide when well enough is good enough... ... you know, like when does one do best to take to the grave with themselves...

Hey guys, thanks for the great replies

Venecia

Hello to all.

My continued kind wishes to Rob and Melissa as you continue you preparations for the next chapters.

I hope this check-in finds all are peaceful.

dwtbd

Robby , your last post made me think in a different angle. And you are probably the only person I can feel comfortable saying this to, but it kind of made me think "well you can't take it with ya"
Just so I'm not misunderstood, I mean that as much as you put into not just being 'right' , that 'what' you have can be authentically of value or worth, and maybe you should leave it where it could do the most good.

fini

Rob,
my short answer is: depends on the relationship.

i don't know anything about student/teacher, other than from being a student decades ago.
parent/child....oh VEY!

my cautions are:
- i may not know what's more "truthful"
-i need to be respectful of others' 'subjective truth
-when i'm The Child, i can tell you that my dad still impressing his version of the "real truth" on me does nothing for our relationship except leave me feeling devalued, dismissed, disdained.
-in my role as parent, i'm mindful of trying very hard NOT to repeat this with my grown-up children.
-in general, things like alcoholism or very serious mental illness excluded, i believe most of us know what's good for us, and know when we need to grow and learn. i do not believe i know this about others, though i often think i do. (shortcoming)
-it is NOT my job to decide when another needs to "grow" or how that should be done.

those are my general thoughts.

and i do find it very tough at times to keep my mouth shut with my grown up kids. and yes, i will and do speak when i think i see something destructive. or something they've really not considered. but; BUT: even there a big NO to beating a dead horse.

there is a very fine line between offering help and suggestions vs saying i know better and more completely.
which i also sometimes do. grrr.

RobbyRobot

Sorry, I'm not getting your meaning...

Aellyce

My first thought and it probably reflects my own view, is it possible for you to do a sort of conventional cost-benefit analysis on this? I did this (in a sort of inverse way, thinking what might be best for him and where to put limits) constantly in the relationship with my father over a few years before his passing, but even earlier. There were many, many areas and topics where I felt I saw truths and things he was not aware of. More and more of these over time. I withheld a lot of interpretations because I felt they would not have added to his life, he was either not ready or obviously resistant. I never regretted (up to this very moment) also that I did not share and reveal many many things about myself to him. My feeling was that those would have been irrelevant and. again, would not have added to anyone's well being and capacity of growth. And to be honest with you, I am pretty sure he also took many observations and opinions about me and our relationship to his grave. It's okay, probably best for me also that I did not learn those things directly from my father.

So what I am trying to say is that ultimately it's perhaps about a balance between challenge and peace, in every individual relationship. It is very hard to navigate that is for sure.

dwtbd

Here I meant along your line of withholding a truth ( or the) as a disservice.

RobbyRobot

I think for myself anyways, there are huge inherent emotional values which can't be readily reduced to cost/basis interpretation.

Yeah, it is hard to navigate. Very hard in fact when one has limited time...

Dee74

I wouldn't presume to answer your specific case scenario Rob.

I'd like to think that my answer wouldn't change if I had 4 months left or 40 years...but yeah - I just don't know mate....

D

courage2

My father took a lot to his grave. I kind of wish he had taken a break at some point to explain to me his perspective on the universe -- his drinking, his father, the suicides, my mother, what he thought of me and why -- the whole 9 yards. But really, that wasn't his job. He didn't think so and neither do I. I think he thought that he raised me to think for myself.

It's not the things I learned from or about people who are now gone that matter to me. It's the feeling of connection, & that's in the gut. It persists even when I've been left in ignorance, and I wouldn't trade it for a pile of diaries.

dtwb -- no Montessori experience at my end.

RobbyRobot

Yeah D, I'm in agreement. I'm not really looking for answers... I'm just thinking out loud is all just to see what others thought relative to themselves. Like you and others have said, its really up to each individual.

Soberwolf

Good morning Robby & Melissa have a nice day

10.35am

RobbyRobot

Afternoon Wolfie

RobbyRobot

So I'm thinking my daily participation on these threads going forward will not be the rule. More of my writings are now going towards a hopeful publication of my book for better or worse. As most here would imagine, writing takes its toll. Writing about my end of life even more so. As well, some (many) of the ideas swirling around me are as yet unfinished collective thoughts, and these are very difficult to avoid messing with as I post to these threads, and so I'm having some difficulty in staying focused as my awareness is being cut up into chunks and so on and whatever. Anyways, its become unworkable for me to give my full attention daily to these threads. My personal writings will now come first.

It's not like this is goodbye. Far from it. I just want my friends here to know a day or two or three may go by before I have something of meaning to contribute is all I'm saying. I don't want my friends offended if I just thank or give a short reply to what others are contributing.

We also know my health is inexorably failing, and so this too is in play daily. Some days are better than others. Every day is a challenge at this point. On July 27th I'll have a CT scan. This will offer a clearer picture of the timeline going forward. At this point I have about 5 months give or take a month or two. Pretty grim.

So yeah, time is everything. And so is the timing of things too. If I hope to complete my writings I really need to get to it more than I am already.

So friends, just want you all to know what is authentically going on for me. I know you'll all understand, and thanks for all that too.

courage2

Yup. I'm subscribed to this thread, so when you post, I see it. Wave, fare well, & hasta la vista but not goodbye.

brynn

Good morning Robby!

Completely understandable. I'm just happy to hear that you feel well enough to continue pursuing your writing goals! Your time is valuable and you know how to make best use of it.

I've said it before, but it's worth repeating....without this community and people Iike you Robby I wouldn't be sober today and I wouldn't be pursuing my own goals. I mean that with the deepest sincerity.
I took the GRE yesterday. Something I could never have accomplished drunk. Also something I would have shied away from because of recent MS complications. But because I have seen you rise above your physical limitations and accomplish so much, I realized I could do the same. Thank you, Robby.
(Btw...my MS flare up did not have the dire permanent consequences my dr predicted and my mobility back to about 80% normal).

Love and hugs as always.
Xoxo

fini

yes, of course. post when you want/need/can.

priorities shift with time available.

sending good wishes to you.

RobbyRobot

Brynn, I'm thrilled to hear your MS flare was not as consequential as first projected!! AWESOME!!

And of course you having returned to your studies is "old news" now.

Aellyce

Robby, I soooo understand this. Even without the extreme challenges you are going through... That getting very involved here and with many people, maintaining relationships in a consistent way here on SR takes it's toll. Exactly why I considered leaving the board a few times, and finally tried recently, even though it did not last. It's a lot of mental energy and also time. Before I recently closed my account with the idea to make it final, I juggled so many things on here over ~1.5 year and it seriously interfered with other areas of my life and especially my 3D relationships -- and not because anything bad happened on SR. Because I was so involved and fixated mentally. Anyhow, I came back but with the determination that I will not "confuse" this board with real life and full blown relationships. I do want to come here regularly and participate in things that interest me on the forums, and that's about it at this point. I can't even begin to imagine how the time and energy limits might feel for you, Robby

Sending good thoughts to everyone who's struggling