Della1968

I think that is probably what most of us were trying to escape. Even the people who say they weren't.

I am with you sleepie....over my head but that's okay.

I hope everyone has the best day they can. If I hadn't been a slug yesterday my lawn would be mowed. But how-to videos came first lol. Now I know how to do all kinds of things that I will never do!

silentrun

Morning all.

Most of it's going over my head too but some of it's sinking in. Great discussion.

Rob: Yeah, if your doctor doesn't honor your choices it is time for a new one. My friend's son had a great oncologist. He had some tough treatments but it was always up to him what he wanted to do and what he didn't. He had a high rate of survival but they never pushed anything on him. Sometimes he just got tired of it all. Hopefully tomorrow you are pleasantly surprised by her reaction.
I am glad Melissa's mom was able to come up and eat pie with you. I love my MIL. I sometimes get from her what I can't get from my own mom.

I was never much of a drug user. Got high a few times and just got paranoid. tried half a line of crank and couldn't sleep for 3 days...hated it. I didn't like the feeling of being incapacitated. Some people I hung around with one summer had some LSD. I did that a few times and thought it was cool. I could make my mind see whatever I wanted to. We tripped in a grave yard at night and I would stare at the graves until they moved or I saw something come up out of the ground. I don't see any value in them anymore. I am back to preferring not to be dulled out.

If I had realized how deep I was getting into the alcohol I would have quit. It didn't suck me in all at once. At first I had some control over it. A couple of drinks didn't send me loopy, it was just relaxing. By the time it picked up speed I was unable to think rationally . It's not as if I was breaking any laws. Maybe I should have known but I didn't.

courage2

Perfectly stated, Trach.

Soberpotamus

Robby & Dee, same for me... I was drinking to escape being myself for a while

And now I no longer want to escape. I want to embrace being me and living this life.

courage2

OOh goodie! Are we taking a trip into the bottomless pit carved by self-loathing and fear? I have to go get my muck boots and helmet.

I can look almost objectively at my desire to as David Foster Wallace would say 'obliterate my own map' as an incredibly deluded, almost funny thing -- because until and unless I actually off myself, all I do by using or whatever sick escapist outlet is pile more and more misery onto the accumuluting dung-pile that is myself -- a dung-pile with a bottomless pit inside, what an image! Substances are such a pitifully temporary fix to the problem, it's ridiculous.

Yet the idea of escape retains its allure for me, even as I rule out methods. I'm really glad that you've been so successful in learning to go thoroughly beyond that allure, Rob.

RobbyRobot

Well, I wouldn't say I've "learned" as much as I'd say I'm still wholly in a flux of learning to deal with such deadly allure.

Let's be honest. Suicidal ideations arise within me every instance I turn my awareness to my final days with respect to my death-by-cancer-complications. Every. Instance.

Hmmm. This might be surprising to some. To others, not so much. To myself, I'm not surprised. It's not like my flesh will just stop working and I die. It will be something more like a extended process of my flesh failing to keep itself alive. Unfortunately, I'm not set free from my flesh until my actual death, so, I'm kind of a prisoner in so many ways.

Suicide is an option. It can't be simply brushed aside. I must process enough of this angst each day to have a good day, yeah? Its not really something I can just be done with and get on with "living my life"

Yeah. This is a whole different kind of "living my life" process which I have never had to deal with before. Ironically, the more my flesh fails, the more my inner life strengthens, and the more intense is my examination of all the options and opportunities to continue to enjoy my quality of life.

Does this make sense?

brynn

Good morning, Robby and yes, it makes perfect sense.

courage2

Yes, it makes perfect sense. I am deeply sad for you, Rob. It doesn't seem like the right word, but it's the only word I can find now. Insert kiss-on-the-forehead-smiley

RobbyRobot

Yup. Makes sad sense to me too, my dear friends. Thank you for your kind affirmations.

fini

thanks, Rob.
not just for this particular response, but for taking the time to give it.
very helpful.
i grapple with the seeming selfishness of making amends to end my own suffering. but ever aware of the distinction between "dumping guilt" and taking responsibility.

fini

yes. makes sense entirely . in terms of being responsible to and as your authentic self.

RobbyRobot

I don't really agree creating actual amends is a selfish process. I do believe making amends could become an egotistical fault, if it was processed as one only interested in their own well-being with out regard for being careful to not create new harms.

Your careful awareness to make amends with a healthy sense of responsibility to yourself and too others safely speaks more to the generosity of your new lifestyle going forward then it charges you with any kind of negative selfishness.

Well fini, that's my take on your efforts towards your amends.

suki44883

I haven't posted until now because I just felt like anything I had to say would be inadequate. I don't even understand some of what y'all are saying, but I decided to post this anyhow. It looks like the subject has moved on, but I wanted to share this anyway.

A couple of years ago, my ex...the father of my oldest daughter, died from ALS (commonly known as Lou Gehrig's disease). It is a progressive neurodegenerative disease that affects nerve cells in the brain and the spinal cord. Simply put, the muscles weaken and eventually atrophy, causing the person to no longer be able to move, become wheelchair bound, and eventually, in most cases, suffocate to death.

The thing is, their mind is not affected. They can see this horrible disease taking over their body, but there isn't a thing they can do about it. They become dependent on others for the most simple and basic of human needs.

To make this sad story even more sad...about 2 months after he was diagnosed, his wife was diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer. She died 3 months later. He wouldn't have the love of his life with him when he needed her most. It was so god-awful unfair.

He said a few times that if he could end his life, he would, but the thing was...he couldn't use his arms or legs. He would have needed help to end his life and he would never ask our daughter or anyone else who loved him to do this. So...it took about 3 years after diagnosis for him to finally die in his sleep. As sad as it was, it was actually a blessing. My daughter said he actually died with a smile on his face. He was just existing until he could be with his wife again. I know they are together now, laughing and dancing and just enjoying being together again.

Robby, my thoughts and prayers are with both you and Melissa. I truly believe there will come a day when the two of you will be together forever, with no illness or pain. (((HUGS)))

RobbyRobot

(((suki)))

Thank you so much for your inspirational share. Yes, sad indeed, and yet also very affirming for me that there is more to life than what our mortal shells offer us. And for me anyways, the subject has not in any way "moved on"

Soberwolf

Read one of your posts in another thread & i dont think legend quite does it when i think about you Robby

Hope you & Melissa have had a nice weekend & i hope you both have a great week ahead Robby

I love reading your posts thank you

Soberpotamus

Makes great sense, Rob

LBrain

Just wanted to stop in and say hello. I haven't been reading lately. Hope to catch up soon.
Hope all are well.

courage2

My father died of ALS. It took him 6 years from diagnosis. He refused all treatment except for the diabetes he developed and an experimental drug to participate in research that undoubtedly had no benefit. He and my mother talked more that once about whether she could/should kill him. He was a doctor though and quite opposed to suicide, probably because his father had multiple very serious attempts, and his brother died that way. He eventually just died of slow suffocation because he couldn't use his diaphragm to breathe.

ArtFriend

Are you familiar with Dr. Jack Kevorkian Robert? a.k.a Dr Death? He was the guy who championed terminal patient's right to assisted suicide. I thought he was wonderful and really came to the aid of people who otherwise had no option. I am big proponent of assisted suicide. I think the US is way behind in this area. Only 3 states allows it - Washington, Oregon and Vermont. It is the right of a competent, terminally ill person to make the decision to embrace a dignified death, not the state's. I won't turn this post into a tirade, but I REALLY feel strongly about this. I know Canada overturned the ban on assisted suicide in Feb of this year.

BTW - Dr. Kevorkian lived in my hometown in Michigan. I saw him at a restaurant and he was treated like a pariah. Such a shame.

courage2

jeez, trach, come by with some song, why dontcha?