Can a sociopath love children?

[shutterbug]

I've read up on anti-social personality disorder, but can't find the answer to this question?

Can a diagnosed sociopath love children or animals and just not be capable of loving adults?

:bigeyes:

[MarkSichelCSW]

Nope...a true sociopath can only pretend to love children, and often will in order to meet their own needs, but in fact is incapable of loving anyone or anything.

[shutterbug]

what do you mean by...that they often will pretend to love children to meet their own needs?

[shutterbug]

Thanks for the clarification Mark.

Cynthia: Your situation sounds pretty familiar. This A of mine is also a very charming, wonderful and intelligent man on the surface. He has admitted to several people that he is a diagnosed sociopath and always says to me, "I'm crazy. I'm just crazy."

I have flip-flopped back and forth trying to fiqure out if it is just another lie to try and deflect being held responsible for his actions caused by heavy drinking or if he really is a sociopath.

See, I can handle having an A friend in my life, but I need to be loved and for my feelings and emotions to be appreciated for what they are. So that is why I am trying to discover the real truth here. So that I can make a decision about whether or not to completely keep this person out of my life and my family's lives.

At my first look examing the disorder, it scared me because so many things seem to fit with him.

But I always FELT loved by him (although, mostly when drunk - when sober he closes up and tries to convence me not to fall in love with him). He has "slipped" several times and told me he loves me, but later when sober or half sober he would tell me that he didn't mean it and that he lies a lot when drunk, because he isn't capable of loving adults.

He is very private of his thoughts and feelings. I think he may also use the "sociopath" term to put people off track because he doesn't want them to know he really cares...because in his mind - if they know how much he really cares, then that means they can hurt him easier.

I've only seen him cry twice. He has 2 sons that he hasn't been able to see in a long time and he rarely opens up to talk about them. He usually says, "I'm not going to talk about that" and sticks to it. But the first time he opened up and was telling me about one of his sons, he began crying uncontrollably and said, "This is why I don't talk about it. He's such a great kid..."

He also talks about how much he loves his little niece and that he is the closest thing to a father she has. His mom has told me many times that when they are together they are attached at the hip and his niece always misses him if she doesn't get to see him regularly. Her family even drove her 30 miles one day so she could spend an hour hanging out with him in the park because she hadn't seen him in so long and was begging to get to go see her Uncle B."

He says children and animals cannot take care of themselves (and they don't have wrongful motives) where adults are fully capable of making their own decisions and of taking care of themselves. He says he doesn't love adults for that reason. But then he always says how much he loves his mom (who is disabled) and that he loves my father (his best friend over the last four years and a father figure to him). He never wavers on these things - drunk or sober.

So, I guess there may be a slight possiblity that he could be a VERY convincing actor in playing the role of either a sociopath OR pretending to love children (which he is a good actor, but not quite this good - I don't think).

I have enabled him on several occasions, but he has never TRIED to hurt me or take advantage of me or my father - that I am currently aware of. HOWEVER, he fully admits that he used his ex-girlfriend to support him while he was doing the music thing in Nashville and rationalized it by explaining that she was a total mess before he took her out there with him. He said she didn't have a place to live and was staying high on crank. So he said he actually was helping her, while helping himself at the same time. (She was also begging him to let her come out there and he finally told her she could - she has told me this herself).

He also is a sexual addict and admits to having slept with literally thousands of women (which is why we are no longer in a romantic relationship). He seems to tell the truth most of the time and often simply refuses to answer many questions because he doesn't want the truth to come out, but doesn't want to lie either to cover it up.

The more I write, the more I am beginning to see that he is just acting like the bad alcoholic he is. I just hope I am not blinding myself here.

Any thoughts?

Searching for serenity one day at a time,
Jenna

[liveweyerd]

I think (know) Mark put the truth, however harsh, quite clearly.
A sociopath can be charming, highly intelligent and attractive...and often are superb actors. In reality they have no feelings for anyone, tho' they may disguise it.
There is no empathy, no care, no concern, no awareness of others' feelings. They are capable of pretense. In truth, all they have is their own will and agenda. The rest of us are no more than pawns on the chessboard.
Steer clear!

[shutterbug]

Thanks guys, you are right. I called him yesterday for the first time in a month. I was feeling REALLY down and because of his situations I knew I could feel comfortable talking to him while he was sober and it would make me feel better. It did. I can't explain it, but he can understand me and I can understand him in ways that many can't understand either of us. Now that's not to say I plan on calling him again. I don't. And if he calls when he's drunk, I don't plan to talk to him and NO WAY am I going to see him or let him in if he comes by.

I have to work on me now and I'm having a really hard time with that. And since I know he can do nothing but bring me down with more pain and misery, I HAVE to stay clear.

And all I can do is pray that he learns the lessons he needs to learn in order for him to follow God's path for him. And regardless of what I think or want for him. God's plan may mean that this A is set to remain an A for a long time to come or indefinetly. Who I am I to try and figure out God's plan for him. But I do HOPE that is not God's plan. I'm still hanging onto hope. I let go of control a long time ago, but hope remains.

But I do MUST, MUST, MUST continue to keep the physical and emotiona distance from him. I know this - I just don't always want to agree.

Thanks,
Jenna

[MarkSichelCSW]

I'm glad for you that you're staying away from this sociopath now. You're making the correct choice in keeping distance from him and putting your energy into working on you. Keep it up. You deserve this freedom.

[talia]

I posted a question about "narcissistic personality disorder"....

I came to this board..because a relationship ended...I know I have to focus on myself...and address my own issues of codependency...I was trying to figure out my role in his life...I initially thought all the "craziness" of the relationship was due to being an alcoholic/drug addict...but that didn't seem to answer all the unexplainable...

then I came across some forums on this personality disorder...it is just something I discovered this past week..it all started making more sense...

when I found this out...it was like relieving the pain all over again...but this time..it feels even more so...

I thought that some part of him must have loved me..or he wouldn't have invited me back into his life...this has been on and off again for 7 years...and long distance at that..

before...I had some sort of comfort...that he was just messed up because of the addictions...and that was what was preventing him from having a meaningful relationship....it wasn't because he didn't feel anything

but now I know he didn't feel anything...I was just so dismissed as if I was nothing....to know that this person meant so much to me..and I meant NOTHING...there was no love there....it hurts so much to have had my emotions played on....

I know you can't be a victim..unless you play one...this just took it to a level beyond my comprehension...and I am in deep pain....and it is hard to get back on track of healing myself......

[tammera]

do you think that an addict before they enter into recovery can be diagnosed as a sociopath simply because of their addiction? And if so does that mean when they get into recovery thier antisocial behaviour also gets better?

[MarkSichelCSW]

An addict who gets into recovery....and by that I mean not drinking or using but also going to AA, can get over their psycophathy if they truly work the AA program. Just giving up the substance will not change their antisocial behavior.

[BJH]

Found this site doing a search on the above question. Our grandson appears to be the victim of a sociopath. Father accuses him of things that he actually did, like starting a fire - he fell asleep with cigarette. Breaking his glasses, grandson says dad got mad and stomped on them. Grandson is only 6 and can't defend himself. Father denies any accusations, so we say very little. No physical abuse is going on, but a lot of crazy making. Intense rage, regarding these supposed wrongdoings. Grandson tells us he can't say much any more, because his dad will get mad. Grandson reports impaired behavior. Father doesn't think he needs 12 step program. Has been in rehab 3 times, once we made him sign himself in for 10 days, then his mom committed him after he pulled a gun on her, then we committed him when he was making manipulative suicide threats. That time he was in for a month. Our only goal at this point is to protect our grandson. Any suggestions? Are a lot of substance abusers sociopaths? We thought at first he was delusional, but applied the test, would he lie, if he knew he would be caught? No he wouldn't.

[MarkSichelCSW]

But he would lie if he know he would not be caught and the only solution for someone like this is to get them out of your life. I presume your daughter is married to this abusive guy and she needs help getting away from him. He gives no evidence of wanting to get clean and sober and unless she gets away from him, he'll never hit rock bottom and clean himself up. She owes it to herself and her son to get the support preferrably from a 12 step group like Nar Anon to give him ultimatums that she can back up with actions and you need to help her with that.

[staywithit]

I have to agree. she will save herself years of heartache and pain. and i mean that. heartache and pain is not the same as "milking" the victim role. i mean real pain. the only thing she'll be a victim of is their inability to love, really love. tell her to get out and be a survivor of life. these people only use others for personal gain, and call it caring or loving another human being. there is no real interest in another human being, and if there is it is usually short lived. they are incapable of long term love and commitment. they are shallow at best. they mostly serve themselves, and expect others to serve them also. and when their needs are not fullfilled, you will pay. one day can be so sweet, another very cruel. it all hinges on their needs being met.
real love gives and takes. it looks out for the other in a healthy way. it has compassion, and does not seek cruelty, mentally or physically. it looks for more solutions rather than more problems. it is able to withstand "normal" arguements (because they are a real part of life) and work them out, and rekindle in a stronger way. it helps each other carry the normal loads of daily living. it doesn't relish in sick behaviors. it has a playful, fun-loving overall goodness. it listens to the other, and cares. it strives for growth in the other person. it stands up to the things that will harm it, in a healthy manner. in other words, it almost resembles a loving parent, only it's a romantic love.
tell her to ask herself if this is where this relationship is headed? only she can figure out for sure. this is not gender based either. i have a girl friend who i would've swore was this person, after being sober for nearing a yr, i found a real live human being there. and a real heart. she became mood even, caring, able to be reasonable, less short tempered, talk about things without slitting anothers throat, less twisted in her thinking. her mother & father literally packed up her daughter and moved her in with them, and i helped them. i could hardley stand to talk to her anymore. she was only left with sick alcoholics and using everyone. no decent human being wanted to be near her. she's back "nipping" off and on again, but she's not happy. she'll have to learn for herself. i don't think it'll take her as long this time. she got a taste of her own ability to really love and care for another for the first time, and i think she liked it. that's what happens when people get in A.A. it's just a damn good standard to live by. a standard most of them were not accustomed to, i've watched many many many an addict try to get this way on their own, without AA, and they have a lot of trouble with it. they usually still have these same behaviors, dry or drunk.
unless they really get sober, you might not ever really know who that person is. that's the heart breaking news.