Property Lines - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

**margo** · 08-09-2003, 01:05 PM

A helpful tool in our recovery, especially in the behavior we call detachment, is learning to identify who owns what. Then we let each person own and possess his or her rightful property.

If another person has an addiction, a problem, a feeling, or a self-defeating behavior, that is their property, not ours. If someone is a martyr immersed in negativity, controlling, or manipulative behavior, that is their issue, not ours.

If someone has acted and experienced a particular consequence, both the behavior and the consequence belong to that person.

If some one is in denial or cannot think clearly on a particular issue, that confusion belongs to him or her.

If someone has a limited or impaired ability to love or care, that is his or her property, not ours. If someone has no approval or nurturing to give away, that is that person’s property.

People's lies, deceptions, tricks, manipulations, abusive behaviors, inappropriate behaviors, cheating, and tacky behaviors belong to them as well. Not to us.

People's hopes and dreams are their property. Their guilt belongs to them too. Their happiness and misery are also theirs. So are their beliefs and messages.

If some people don't like themselves, that is their choice. And other people's choices are their property, not ours.

What people choose to say and do is their business.

What is our property? Our property includes our behaviors, problems, feelings, happiness, misery, choices and messages; our ability to love, care, and nurture; our thoughts, our denial, our hopes and dreams for ourselves. Whether we allow ourselves to be controlled, manipulated, deceived, or mistreated is our business.

In recovery, we learn an appropriate sense of ownership. If something isn't ours, we don't have to take it. IF we take it, we learn to give it back. We let other people have their property, and we learn to own and take good care of what's ours.

Today, I will work at developing a clear sense of what belongs to me, and what doesn't. If it's not mine, I won't keep it. I will deal with myself, my issues, and my responsibilities. I will take my hands off what is not mine.

(Handout from Betty Ford Center-Author Unknown)

**Ann** · 08-09-2003, 02:51 PM

Amen!!!

**margo** · 08-10-2003, 11:12 AM

Back to the top!

**margo** · 09-09-2003, 10:29 AM

To the top.

kwelling5737 · 09-10-2003, 05:25 AM

WOW!

That printout helps to put things in perspective!

Thank you!

Hugz~

Kim

**margo** · 01-07-2004, 08:02 PM

To the top again.

Voo'sBaby · 01-08-2004, 06:51 AM

WOW! To the top once more... :thumb

mooselips · 01-08-2004, 05:48 PM

Thanks Margo, I just love it! In fact, I'm going to print it and save it for future use!

**Ann** · 01-08-2004, 06:00 PM

You know, this is something I have been re-learning lately. If it doesn't have my name on it, I don't own it. It took me forever to learn how to NOT take ownership of other people behaviour, and this past week I have been drawn in....no, I knowingly walked in, to a situation that I did not own.

I have two brothers. I have a wonderful relationship with one, and the other one chose years ago to not be involved with the rest of our family - no squabble, addiction or particular reason, just his own dysfunction.

Because of Christmas, I gave it one more shot at trying to talk to my dysfuntional brother and called him. He wasn't blatently rude, but I was the only one really trying to have a conversation, and his answers were pretty much the "yes' and "no" type, participating very little.

And stupidly, I let this bother me. I have already made my peace with this brother. I have sent him birthday cards, Christmas cards, I have called him a couple of times a year and done my part in trying to have some kind of relationship.

I am not going to take ownership of his dysfuntion, his rudeness, and his coldness towards me and my other brother. My side of the street is clean.

Thank you for the reminder, Margo, right when I needed it.

Hugs
Ann

**margo** · 01-09-2004, 09:04 AM

I need reminding too, Ann - over and over again.

Voo'sBaby · 01-14-2004, 06:32 AM

Is there any way this could be stuck to the top, or in the power posts?

Voo'sBaby · 01-15-2004, 05:21 AM

Thank You! Thank You! Now I can read this every morning. This really helps me. :thumb

devastated · 01-15-2004, 04:28 PM

My sister (whom I love dearly) decided she wanted to start a donnybrook the day after Christmas about some trivial matter. I told her I did not want to argue about it, but it ended up with me telling her that she was being hateful.

She emailed me after a couple of days about the same matter. I emailed her back with my take on things. She then proceeded to email me a second time. Then, I thought about it, and said, "this is her problem and I'm not going to feed into it any further!"

I did not email her again, I did not call, and I did not worry about it! This is not like me at all. Mr. Dev was shocked at my carefree attitude!

Guess what! She called me yesterday to say she was sorry!
Wow! I was shocked!

The moral of the story is what Margo said "We learn an appropriate sense of ownership.! If it's not mine, I won't keep it!

Thanks, Margo

Hugs, Devastated

**margo** · 01-15-2004, 05:24 PM

LOL Dev!!! I wish I could take credit for this wonderful article. However, it's actually from a handout from the Betty Ford Centre and Jon first brought it to our attention. It was such a good one that we posted it on both the anon forums. It always gets the thumbs up from everyone who reads it, and it all so very true. It's a great one to print out to keep handy.

I'm really glad that you were able to handle that situation with your sister so well. You're growing by leaps and bounds, Dev - be proud of yourself - we sure are!

devastated · 01-16-2004, 03:35 PM

and I owe it all to the wonderful people on this forum! Ann, that sweet thang, she has had such patience with me, and she kept on telling me that one day it would happen! There were a couple of times she gave me bunny nudges with the steel-toed slippers, but other than that she was pretty gentle.

Jon and Alyx were not as gentle, but I knew they were right! It might have been their "not so gentle" nudging that made me really think this situation out further! Even though their nudging wasn't as gentle as Ann's, it was very much accepted as doing it "for my own good!"

You all have been wonderful. Right now, I'm still doing well, and every time my son pops into my mind I think "he's the only one that can change this situation." I now realize that he knows how much I love him, and he knows I've tried and also that I'm not responsible for his situation! I'm actually at peace with this now. I think guilt is a horrible thing and keeps you in a bad place if you let it!

I pray every day that I will get stronger and more accepting.

I COULDN'T HAVE DONE THIS WITHOUT ALL OF YOU! You hear me Jon?? I love you!

Love, Devastated

NeedingAnswers5 · 05-28-2004, 10:32 AM

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! IT'S NOT MINE!!!! IT IS JUST NOT MINE!!!

Then I look at the bright side....look at all the functional property that is mine when I let go of the other property.....ohhh yeah

ME ME ME ME ME....MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!! OH YEAH!

05-28-2004, 12:06 PM

I'm going to print this out and take it to work with me and post it somewhere. This stuff bothers me the most at work. I own everything at work. I need practice.

Hopefloats · 06-03-2004, 06:13 AM

I had read this before and not replied. HOW amazing that you can read something like THIS and then read it later, and get new and better meaning from it. OH I guess I was NOT thinking about HOW many things I take on as MINE. WOW..talk about needing someone's bunny slipper up my BUTT!! LOL

Seriously...it takes time to see alot of things. I have taken ownership of so many things that were not mine. EVEN other's feelings!!!!! GRRRRRRRR

I have a feeling I will be working on some issues forever...but I hope that is ok, because I am not giving up on making the changes that I need to make. I hate to but have to admit that I have read things like this..or similar..and thought it had NOTHING to do with ME.....I cannot imagine how I got this far without steel-toed bunny slippers!!!

We have so many wonderful things on this site. I guess we learn as we allow ourselves to "let things in". I am just grateful for all of it...I don't know how else to express it...
Thanks to all the wonderful PATIENT people here at SoberRecovery!!!!
God Bless!!!!
HOPE2055

SYS · 06-08-2004, 08:42 PM

I am so happy I found this article - it hit home- not only in my relationship with SA daughter but with so many others family members - I printed this so I can read it over and over to keep me focused.

thanks
sys

Beachbum · 06-14-2004, 09:17 AM

It's amazing how well some people can do this. My problems are 99% with family members, which recently are my son and his gf. I too walk into situations knowingly. I'm way too sensitive and always want to help to make things better which for me is usually spending money on something the gf wants. I keep getting hurt time and time again.

jstacntryrose · 06-14-2004, 03:09 PM

now if I could just remember that EVERYDAY

waywardsister · 06-15-2004, 12:13 PM

This is something I thought I knew already. It's amazing though how patterns of behaviour and thought become automatic.

My Abf (addicted boyfriend...is that right? I don't know the acronyms yet!) cheated on me several times over the past three years that he's been an active user. I totally took that over and made it mine - partly out of guilt because I had been unfaithful to him just prior to his leap into drinking and drugs.

I was lying in bed last night picturing him being high and uncontrollably screwing someone (I picture different scenarios all the time) when it suddenly occured to me...I DON'T OWN THIS. I play scenarios over and over in my head - why? It's not my fault, and I don't need to handle what's happened by integrating his experiences into my subconcious, as if I will be able to understand them better if I only think about them constantly. I would put myself into his shoes and try to 'live out' what he had done...but that's for him to do, not me.

So I said, out loud to the sky and whoever listens to such things: "I don't need this anymore. You're free to leave now. You don't belong to me." And then I slept, and slept well!

So thanks for posting this. I am going to print it out and paste it in my journal so that I can remind myself, over and over, of what's MINE and what's not.

jstacntryrose · 06-16-2004, 09:14 AM

I have the hardes time with this, I am always trying to fix things. I feel like it is my responsibility to take on the world and its problems, even though I know none of it is mine. I am working on this. I have started to work the steps again..this time with my heart. I dont think I really got it before. Thank you all for this, forum to help me with the issues I keep letting in.
jstacntryrose

Beachbum · 07-14-2004, 06:50 AM

After going through major drama the past few days, I remembered this post about property lines. It really helped me get my head together about what was happening and how I was handling it. I was handling the situation poorly and driving myself nuts. I realized that none of this stuff was really mine, some was but most wasn't. I don't handle the family/kid situations well and really need to work on that.

07-14-2004, 03:19 PM

:wow: I own everyone else's property & try to sweep everything under the rug!! Thanks for this printout!!

08-09-2003, 01:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
margo Forum Leader Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 1,747	Property Lines A helpful tool in our recovery, especially in the behavior we call detachment, is learning to identify who owns what. Then we let each person own and possess his or her rightful property. If another person has an addiction, a problem, a feeling, or a self-defeating behavior, that is their property, not ours. If someone is a martyr immersed in negativity, controlling, or manipulative behavior, that is their issue, not ours. If someone has acted and experienced a particular consequence, both the behavior and the consequence belong to that person. If some one is in denial or cannot think clearly on a particular issue, that confusion belongs to him or her. If someone has a limited or impaired ability to love or care, that is his or her property, not ours. If someone has no approval or nurturing to give away, that is that person’s property. People's lies, deceptions, tricks, manipulations, abusive behaviors, inappropriate behaviors, cheating, and tacky behaviors belong to them as well. Not to us. People's hopes and dreams are their property. Their guilt belongs to them too. Their happiness and misery are also theirs. So are their beliefs and messages. If some people don't like themselves, that is their choice. And other people's choices are their property, not ours. What people choose to say and do is their business. What is our property? Our property includes our behaviors, problems, feelings, happiness, misery, choices and messages; our ability to love, care, and nurture; our thoughts, our denial, our hopes and dreams for ourselves. Whether we allow ourselves to be controlled, manipulated, deceived, or mistreated is our business. In recovery, we learn an appropriate sense of ownership. If something isn't ours, we don't have to take it. IF we take it, we learn to give it back. We let other people have their property, and we learn to own and take good care of what's ours. Today, I will work at developing a clear sense of what belongs to me, and what doesn't. If it's not mine, I won't keep it. I will deal with myself, my issues, and my responsibilities. I will take my hands off what is not mine. (Handout from Betty Ford Center-Author Unknown) __________________ Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind is bearing me across the sky. ~Ojibwe saying~

08-09-2003, 02:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,130	Amen!!! __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

08-10-2003, 11:12 AM	#3 (permalink)
margo Forum Leader Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 1,747	Back to the top! __________________ Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind is bearing me across the sky. ~Ojibwe saying~

09-09-2003, 10:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
margo Forum Leader Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 1,747	To the top. __________________ Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind is bearing me across the sky. ~Ojibwe saying~

09-10-2003, 05:25 AM	#5 (permalink)
kwelling5737 They call me Kim Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pgh, PA. Posts: 78	WOW! That printout helps to put things in perspective! Thank you! Hugz~ Kim __________________ The Three "C"'s: Didn't Cause It, Can't Cure It, Can't Control It

01-07-2004, 08:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
margo Forum Leader Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 1,747	To the top again. __________________ Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind is bearing me across the sky. ~Ojibwe saying~

01-08-2004, 06:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
Voo'sBaby Honor Yourself Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Content Posts: 1,637	WOW! To the top once more... :thumb __________________ Words do this no justice anymore.. VB

01-08-2004, 05:48 PM	#8 (permalink)
mooselips Jujubee Queen Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: In the SNOW belt! Posts: 2,829	Thanks Margo, I just love it! In fact, I'm going to print it and save it for future use! __________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons because, to them, you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup. Diane

01-08-2004, 06:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
Ann Sharing Our Light Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: By The Lake Posts: 15,130	You know, this is something I have been re-learning lately. If it doesn't have my name on it, I don't own it. It took me forever to learn how to NOT take ownership of other people behaviour, and this past week I have been drawn in....no, I knowingly walked in, to a situation that I did not own. I have two brothers. I have a wonderful relationship with one, and the other one chose years ago to not be involved with the rest of our family - no squabble, addiction or particular reason, just his own dysfunction. Because of Christmas, I gave it one more shot at trying to talk to my dysfuntional brother and called him. He wasn't blatently rude, but I was the only one really trying to have a conversation, and his answers were pretty much the "yes' and "no" type, participating very little. And stupidly, I let this bother me. I have already made my peace with this brother. I have sent him birthday cards, Christmas cards, I have called him a couple of times a year and done my part in trying to have some kind of relationship. I am not going to take ownership of his dysfuntion, his rudeness, and his coldness towards me and my other brother. My side of the street is clean. Thank you for the reminder, Margo, right when I needed it. Hugs Ann __________________ Somewhere between the gator swamp and the Taj Mahal there is a path, it may be hidden, overgrown or may blend in with the other surroundings, but it is there, it's your path and it is calling you.~Frankly~

01-09-2004, 09:04 AM	#10 (permalink)
margo Forum Leader Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 1,747	I need reminding too, Ann - over and over again. __________________ Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind is bearing me across the sky. ~Ojibwe saying~

01-14-2004, 06:32 AM	#11 (permalink)
Voo'sBaby Honor Yourself Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Content Posts: 1,637	Is there any way this could be stuck to the top, or in the power posts? __________________ Words do this no justice anymore.. VB

01-15-2004, 05:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
Voo'sBaby Honor Yourself Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Content Posts: 1,637	Thank You! Thank You! Now I can read this every morning. This really helps me. :thumb __________________ Words do this no justice anymore.. VB

01-15-2004, 04:28 PM	#13 (permalink)
devastated Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Calif Posts: 432	Margo, You're Going To Be Proud of Me! My sister (whom I love dearly) decided she wanted to start a donnybrook the day after Christmas about some trivial matter. I told her I did not want to argue about it, but it ended up with me telling her that she was being hateful. She emailed me after a couple of days about the same matter. I emailed her back with my take on things. She then proceeded to email me a second time. Then, I thought about it, and said, "this is her problem and I'm not going to feed into it any further!" I did not email her again, I did not call, and I did not worry about it! This is not like me at all. Mr. Dev was shocked at my carefree attitude! Guess what! She called me yesterday to say she was sorry! Wow! I was shocked! The moral of the story is what Margo said "We learn an appropriate sense of ownership.! If it's not mine, I won't keep it! Thanks, Margo Hugs, Devastated

01-15-2004, 05:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
margo Forum Leader Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 1,747	LOL Dev!!! I wish I could take credit for this wonderful article. However, it's actually from a handout from the Betty Ford Centre and Jon first brought it to our attention. It was such a good one that we posted it on both the anon forums. It always gets the thumbs up from everyone who reads it, and it all so very true. It's a great one to print out to keep handy. I'm really glad that you were able to handle that situation with your sister so well. You're growing by leaps and bounds, Dev - be proud of yourself - we sure are! __________________ Sometimes I go about in pity for myself, and all the while a great wind is bearing me across the sky. ~Ojibwe saying~

01-16-2004, 03:35 PM	#15 (permalink)
devastated Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Calif Posts: 432	Thanks Margo and I owe it all to the wonderful people on this forum! Ann, that sweet thang, she has had such patience with me, and she kept on telling me that one day it would happen! There were a couple of times she gave me bunny nudges with the steel-toed slippers, but other than that she was pretty gentle. Jon and Alyx were not as gentle, but I knew they were right! It might have been their "not so gentle" nudging that made me really think this situation out further! Even though their nudging wasn't as gentle as Ann's, it was very much accepted as doing it "for my own good!" You all have been wonderful. Right now, I'm still doing well, and every time my son pops into my mind I think "he's the only one that can change this situation." I now realize that he knows how much I love him, and he knows I've tried and also that I'm not responsible for his situation! I'm actually at peace with this now. I think guilt is a horrible thing and keeps you in a bad place if you let it! I pray every day that I will get stronger and more accepting. I COULDN'T HAVE DONE THIS WITHOUT ALL OF YOU! You hear me Jon?? I love you! Love, Devastated

05-28-2004, 10:32 AM	#16 (permalink)
NeedingAnswers5 Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 17	AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! IT'S NOT MINE!!!! IT IS JUST NOT MINE!!! Then I look at the bright side....look at all the functional property that is mine when I let go of the other property.....ohhh yeah ME ME ME ME ME....MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!! OH YEAH! __________________ Thinking you are the worst person in the world is just like thinking you are the best person. You are giving yourself a place in this universe you haven't earned! Nichole

05-28-2004, 12:06 PM	#17 (permalink)
Morning Glory Guest Posts: n/a	I'm going to print this out and take it to work with me and post it somewhere. This stuff bothers me the most at work. I own everything at work. I need practice.

06-03-2004, 06:13 AM	#18 (permalink)
Hopefloats Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: With Good Spirit Posts: 395	I had read this before and not replied. HOW amazing that you can read something like THIS and then read it later, and get new and better meaning from it. OH I guess I was NOT thinking about HOW many things I take on as MINE. WOW..talk about needing someone's bunny slipper up my BUTT!! LOL Seriously...it takes time to see alot of things. I have taken ownership of so many things that were not mine. EVEN other's feelings!!!!! GRRRRRRRR I have a feeling I will be working on some issues forever...but I hope that is ok, because I am not giving up on making the changes that I need to make. I hate to but have to admit that I have read things like this..or similar..and thought it had NOTHING to do with ME.....I cannot imagine how I got this far without steel-toed bunny slippers!!! We have so many wonderful things on this site. I guess we learn as we allow ourselves to "let things in". I am just grateful for all of it...I don't know how else to express it... Thanks to all the wonderful PATIENT people here at SoberRecovery!!!! God Bless!!!! HOPE2055

06-08-2004, 08:42 PM	#19 (permalink)
SYS Paused Join Date: May 2004 Location: LANDOVER MARYLAND Posts: 3	I am so happy I found this article - it hit home- not only in my relationship with SA daughter but with so many others family members - I printed this so I can read it over and over to keep me focused. thanks sys

06-14-2004, 09:17 AM	#20 (permalink)
Beachbum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 19	It's amazing how well some people can do this. My problems are 99% with family members, which recently are my son and his gf. I too walk into situations knowingly. I'm way too sensitive and always want to help to make things better which for me is usually spending money on something the gf wants. I keep getting hurt time and time again.

06-14-2004, 03:09 PM	#21 (permalink)
jstacntryrose Paused Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: california Posts: 45	now if I could just remember that EVERYDAY

06-15-2004, 12:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
waywardsister Goddess in the making Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Toronto, ON Posts: 34	This is something I thought I knew already. It's amazing though how patterns of behaviour and thought become automatic. My Abf (addicted boyfriend...is that right? I don't know the acronyms yet!) cheated on me several times over the past three years that he's been an active user. I totally took that over and made it mine - partly out of guilt because I had been unfaithful to him just prior to his leap into drinking and drugs. I was lying in bed last night picturing him being high and uncontrollably screwing someone (I picture different scenarios all the time) when it suddenly occured to me...I DON'T OWN THIS. I play scenarios over and over in my head - why? It's not my fault, and I don't need to handle what's happened by integrating his experiences into my subconcious, as if I will be able to understand them better if I only think about them constantly. I would put myself into his shoes and try to 'live out' what he had done...but that's for him to do, not me. So I said, out loud to the sky and whoever listens to such things: "I don't need this anymore. You're free to leave now. You don't belong to me." And then I slept, and slept well! So thanks for posting this. I am going to print it out and paste it in my journal so that I can remind myself, over and over, of what's MINE and what's not.

06-16-2004, 09:14 AM	#23 (permalink)
jstacntryrose Paused Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: california Posts: 45	I have the hardes time with this, I am always trying to fix things. I feel like it is my responsibility to take on the world and its problems, even though I know none of it is mine. I am working on this. I have started to work the steps again..this time with my heart. I dont think I really got it before. Thank you all for this, forum to help me with the issues I keep letting in. jstacntryrose

07-14-2004, 06:50 AM	#24 (permalink)
Beachbum Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Georgia Posts: 19	After going through major drama the past few days, I remembered this post about property lines. It really helped me get my head together about what was happening and how I was handling it. I was handling the situation poorly and driving myself nuts. I realized that none of this stuff was really mine, some was but most wasn't. I don't handle the family/kid situations well and really need to work on that.

07-14-2004, 03:19 PM	#25 (permalink)
sam082602 Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks!! :wow: I own everyone else's property & try to sweep everything under the rug!! Thanks for this printout!!

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