neuroleptics, alcohol abuse, and Tardive PD?

[kimberdt]

I'm seeking info, unsure where to go for it. I hope you can answer on a basic level, or refer me to someone who can. Several suicide attempts at 11 and 12 years of age had me in a psych ward where all were given Thorazine and/or Haloperidol to keep things quiet, regardless of aggression or lack of it. I was quiet and withdrawn, but given a lot of drugs, sat around slobbering mostly. I had sleep disturbances that recurred in later years when I drank. Shortly following both discharges, I had cervical dystonia, and did not know what it was or why it was happening until now.
Though a worrier and melancholy, I’ve been functional and sober as an adult, until at 37, I began drinking. I progressed rapidly, and in 2 years’ time, ended in a 30 day residential. In 6 months, I had 2 relapses, both ending in hospital, the last being A/LOC for about 20 hours. Sober 9 months now, but struggling with what my mind and body are become.
Warned seriously about hypertension, I went to a PA-C, nervous about how I'd be seen, (My ER docs couldn't quite hide their disgust for alcoholics), and she started in on my trembling hand/arm, (looking for cog-wheel effect). Startled, I questioned her, but dissuaded her by telling her I was nervous.
In April I had surgery for a broken ankle healed deformed. I fell a lot, and blamed it on lack of coordination with the crutches and poor balance. Now walking, I still have a tendency to move very slowly, occasionally quick-stepping to compensate for imbalance, but I've dismissed this as a lingering muscle weakness (having heard it can take up to a year to regain full strength), lost ROM, and balance issues. I've had postural hypotension and vertigo-like s/s all my life, but these have become more apparent in the last year. I've blamed this on the Enalapril now controlling my hypertension.
A year ago, I was a very physically active, hard-working woman, getting up and going to work the day after I broke my ankle, and not missing a day until I went to rehab. Now, after 9 months sober, a year of a clean, heart-healthy diet, my ankle mostly repaired, and a commitment to regular exercise, I’m in the toilet. I ache, stiffen quickly, suffer mild weakness constantly, exacerbated with exercise to the point of shaking quads (My physio assistant thought it funny, I stumbled as if drunk when I got off the shuttle), and heavy arms, tachycardia and SOB. (Pre-op, an hour a day 6 days a week of treadmill was energizing and gave no such disturbing results.) Lethargy is a problem, whether I nap or not, even an occasional 24 hour nap does nothing. I force myself to function, and feel like a blob. Showering or fixing a meal are chores I dread. My mind is markedly slowed. I read and re-read, frustrated by the loss of my previously quick intake. Speaking, I lose words and sometimes even my entire train of thought.
My practitioner is currently awaiting my FT3 and FT4 values; my CMP, CBC, ERS, and TSH being normal, (A few mild aberrations, my BUN low, WBC, relative and absolute neutrophils, lymphocyte and basophil absolutes mildly elevated, but no critical values, so renal and liver function are ok.), and I think she’s heading again (I've pooh-poohed it twice) towards the antidepressant chat, and maybe this time I'll shut up and listen. Could clinical depression manifest in all or most of these s/s?
However, reading up on atypical parkinsonism in an effort to better understand my step-mom, afflicted (we think) due to living near a toxic drain for 31 years, I am provoked, recalling my practitioner's suspicions a year ago. It seems too freaky to me, and I want more input before I make an idiot out of myself by readdressing it.
When one is given neuroleptics, how long afterwards could s/s of tardive PD appear? Is it actual damage to brain cells that cause it, so it "could" proceed and so many years later, begin to be noted? Or is it such that, once the meds are cleared from the body, effects disappear?
Too, in some of my reading I am aware that the same receptors are affected by alcohol consumption, but with the technicality of some of these studies, I cannot determine if it damages the same cells, stimulates them, or fools them. Wondering if my consumption effectively "medicated" me, masking s/s that would have been apparent if I'd not been intoxicated? Or if it did, in fact, damage those cells, and I'm now heading towards reaping my reward.
I’m also trying to find out how lasting the alcohol-induced thiamine deficiency is, whether it stabilizes with abstinence and healthy diet, or persists because of some metabolic damage. I’m aware that it, too, manifests neurologic signs, but can’t seem to discover its likely duration.
Thank you so much for any insight you have! I'm reading the archives tonight, seeing what others have come through. Talk with you soon! Kim

[historyteach]

Hi, Kim;

And welcome to SR!

Mark will be here to answer your concerns.
In the meantime, you may want to go to the AA or the alcoholism forum. There, you'll find others you can relate to.

I wish you the best as we continue on the road to recovery.

Shalom!

[kimberdt]

Hey, Teach! Hope that's an ok NN. ? I do appreciate your kindness. Yes, I'm reading lots of the threads here, (Tried to hit a mtg, but the s/w is down.), and am thankful to have stumbled on such a great group. Locals here are ok, but have some snobbery that I don't need, so the folks here are somehow more attractive to me.
I pray this IS laziness, or mebbe some vitamin deficiency. No hurry w/ Mr. Sichel, I can hang here comfy-like, folks are great! In my readings, I don't see much of the info I'm after. You dunno? About the lingering effects of psycho drugs from the mid-70's??? Alcoholic metabolic poisoning? Or mebbe alcoholic vitamin deficits/lingering effects? Sod it these pages are either too simple with insufficient data, or too scientifically deep, so I can't get anywhere. Hate to play "Dr" with myself, but I'm getting in a low point!!!
Anyway, thanks a lot, and I pray you're well! K

[historyteach]

Hiya, Kimbert!
Glad to see you back. Mark is a volunteer professional. He comes by a few times a week and donates his time, for which we are very grateful!

Your questions are fine! I wish I could help, but, it's far past my area of expertise. But, if you ask on the AA or alcoholism board about the effects, I'm sure you'll get some replys.
Then, be sure to check back for Mark. He's the one with all the letters after his name!
And besides that, he's an awesome guy!

Be well,
Shalom!

[Kahlia]

Originally Posted by kimberdt

I'm seeking info, unsure where to go for it. I hope you can answer on a basic level, or refer me to someone who can. Several suicide attempts at 11 and 12 years of age had me in a psych ward where all were given Thorazine and/or Haloperidol to keep things quiet, regardless of aggression or lack of it. I was quiet and withdrawn, but given a lot of drugs, sat around slobbering mostly. I had sleep disturbances that recurred in later years when I drank. Shortly following both discharges, I had cervical dystonia, and did not know what it was or why it was happening until now.
Though a worrier and melancholy, I’ve been functional and sober as an adult, until at 37, I began drinking. I progressed rapidly, and in 2 years’ time, ended in a 30 day residential. In 6 months, I had 2 relapses, both ending in hospital, the last being A/LOC for about 20 hours. Sober 9 months now, but struggling with what my mind and body are become.
Warned seriously about hypertension, I went to a PA-C, nervous about how I'd be seen, (My ER docs couldn't quite hide their disgust for alcoholics), and she started in on my trembling hand/arm, (looking for cog-wheel effect). Startled, I questioned her, but dissuaded her by telling her I was nervous.
In April I had surgery for a broken ankle healed deformed. I fell a lot, and blamed it on lack of coordination with the crutches and poor balance. Now walking, I still have a tendency to move very slowly, occasionally quick-stepping to compensate for imbalance, but I've dismissed this as a lingering muscle weakness (having heard it can take up to a year to regain full strength), lost ROM, and balance issues. I've had postural hypotension and vertigo-like s/s all my life, but these have become more apparent in the last year. I've blamed this on the Enalapril now controlling my hypertension.
A year ago, I was a very physically active, hard-working woman, getting up and going to work the day after I broke my ankle, and not missing a day until I went to rehab. Now, after 9 months sober, a year of a clean, heart-healthy diet, my ankle mostly repaired, and a commitment to regular exercise, I’m in the toilet. I ache, stiffen quickly, suffer mild weakness constantly, exacerbated with exercise to the point of shaking quads (My physio assistant thought it funny, I stumbled as if drunk when I got off the shuttle), and heavy arms, tachycardia and SOB. (Pre-op, an hour a day 6 days a week of treadmill was energizing and gave no such disturbing results.) Lethargy is a problem, whether I nap or not, even an occasional 24 hour nap does nothing. I force myself to function, and feel like a blob. Showering or fixing a meal are chores I dread. My mind is markedly slowed. I read and re-read, frustrated by the loss of my previously quick intake. Speaking, I lose words and sometimes even my entire train of thought.
My practitioner is currently awaiting my FT3 and FT4 values; my CMP, CBC, ERS, and TSH being normal, (A few mild aberrations, my BUN low, WBC, relative and absolute neutrophils, lymphocyte and basophil absolutes mildly elevated, but no critical values, so renal and liver function are ok.), and I think she’s heading again (I've pooh-poohed it twice) towards the antidepressant chat, and maybe this time I'll shut up and listen. Could clinical depression manifest in all or most of these s/s?
However, reading up on atypical parkinsonism in an effort to better understand my step-mom, afflicted (we think) due to living near a toxic drain for 31 years, I am provoked, recalling my practitioner's suspicions a year ago. It seems too freaky to me, and I want more input before I make an idiot out of myself by readdressing it.
When one is given neuroleptics, how long afterwards could s/s of tardive PD appear? Is it actual damage to brain cells that cause it, so it "could" proceed and so many years later, begin to be noted? Or is it such that, once the meds are cleared from the body, effects disappear?
Too, in some of my reading I am aware that the same receptors are affected by alcohol consumption, but with the technicality of some of these studies, I cannot determine if it damages the same cells, stimulates them, or fools them. Wondering if my consumption effectively "medicated" me, masking s/s that would have been apparent if I'd not been intoxicated? Or if it did, in fact, damage those cells, and I'm now heading towards reaping my reward.
I’m also trying to find out how lasting the alcohol-induced thiamine deficiency is, whether it stabilizes with abstinence and healthy diet, or persists because of some metabolic damage. I’m aware that it, too, manifests neurologic signs, but can’t seem to discover its likely duration.
Thank you so much for any insight you have! I'm reading the archives tonight, seeing what others have come through. Talk with you soon! Kim

Hello Kim-It is GREAT to see you here and I am again taking Mark's SPOT!!!!! I am an RN, with a Master's degree, I see a lot of difficulty in your processing your own illnesses. I also see that you desperately want to get well and be HAPPY...GO to an AA meeting and just LISTEN..there are people like you...I am like you except I love drugs and I Also understand the process of trying to figure out all the things that you have on your plate and NOT being able to even know where to begin....I think a good place to start is to take BABY steps...slow down, try not to find out everything at once, you never will, it is a very difficult situation and I wish that I could give you ALL the answers BUT I can't. I see that you have had thyroid tests done, that might account for all the extreme tiredness BUT then again, so could DEPRESSION...you are taking on a full boat, KIM, don't sink and I am praying for you....prayers never hurt...they actually help.....I also read a book called............................................ ........
The dance of ANGER" , as I read a lot of that in your post, you have no place to go anymore and no one to help you..we are all here if you need to talk.........If you want to PM me, feel free......PEACE and say the serenity prayer about 10, 000 times a day!!! It helped ME!!! Love.......Kahlia

[kimberdt]

Teach! Thank you bunches! I'm working my way through the myriad threads, and reading lots of posts, so far I've encountered awesome people, but found no data. Continued web-searches exacerbate my confusion. The only positive answer I've received was from a woman who reckoned I'd give her my credit card for some vitamins, telling me I was certainly experiencing thiamine deficiency and needed to replenish it asap. Bugger if I can't find out soon.

Kahlia! Thank you so much for your warm welcome and response. I am asking around here because I've learned that playing DR with myself is a losing proposition. (I diagnosed my HBP as White Coat Syndrome / Empty Wallet Syndrome, and was wrong. I dx'd and tx'd my "Sprained Ankle" and now it will never be normal, because it was broken and healed deformed... Did the same with skin infections, reckoning I had an inflammatory response to the sweat or neoprene in my ankle wrap, numerous times, the last occurrence of which I was forced by my physio to seek advise. My last relapse, I dx'd my metabolic poisoning as hypoglycemia, asking a friend to help me do the stick b/c I couldn't depress the lancet trigger, and nearly died for it. I'm really not playing dr anymore, will take nothing, not even a vitamin, without her advise, but AM playing detective in an effort to avoid being swept under a rug at next visit...)
I'm under the care of a practitioner who is not unsympathetic to my disease, and blessed to have her listen and thoughtfully consider possibilities. However, the end of physical probabilities is nigh exhausted, and I don't want to be, like my precious stepmom, one who is medicated improperly and a chemical nightmare because the causes are "unknown" and her Docs are too arrogant to admit they're stumped so they give rx's like they were candy...
So while I await the labs, I am looking for info on the likelihood of my alcohol abuse having damaged either my metabolism or my brain itself, seeing similarities of s/s in both areas. If these are impossible, then I've no choice but to permit her to say "clinical depression", take what she suggests, and pray it works... I KNOW that depression manifests in physical s/s, but feel in my gut I'm physically depressed and becoming emotionally so for lack of improvement. However, my caregiver will be the ultimate decision-maker, and I know if I persist, that is where it will go, b/c I can "feel" it in low-key comments. And, yes, my sister, I'm aware of the power of prayers. I am thankful for them, from all who pray. I'm getting tired, better get up awhile. You be blessed! I will keep you in prayer, and thank God for the blessing of meeting you. K

[MarkSichelCSW]

Your questions are really medical and diagnostic questions. I'm not an M.D. and I don't know about how your medical problems interrelate to each other or to past treatments.

[Found]

Kimberdt,
I am a bit similar in a series of conditions permanent and temporary and some bad prescribed drug reactions, and wondering why I am shaking more than I would have thought after 4 months since my last drink.
My ideal stance I suppose would be alertness without arrogance. I tried some mental health forums but there isn't much in depth expertise on drug effects around those I tried.
It is best to be assertive when reporting bad side-effects. (Very difficult for me!)
Meantime there is the quest for serenity for us to fall back on ...
My favourite is "serenity because", but I'll no doubt need "serenity in spite of" as well.