It just seems odd...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Monroe LA
Posts: 14
It just seems odd...
It just seems odd to me that in a Narcotics Anonymous forum, so many people, newcomer and old timer alike have spent so much time discussing drugs in recent weeks. That comment will probably not make sense to a few of you. So, are we powerless over this drug, that drug, a veritable plethora of addictions, or is it the disease of addiction that we deal with and our recovery from a disease that manifests itself in many forms? I seem to remember a line or two from the basic text and how specific this , that, or the other thing wasn't our problem, and that some singular terms were just too narrow a description for our purposes.
Many books have been written about the nature of addiction. This book primarily concerns itself with the nature of recovery. If you are an addict and have found this book, please give yourself a break and read it!
- Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous
Many books have been written about the nature of addiction. This book primarily concerns itself with the nature of recovery. If you are an addict and have found this book, please give yourself a break and read it!
- Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: fumbling towards ecstasy
Posts: 2,551
Hey, D72992. Phinny, here. Addict. Speaking for myself, 99% of what I think, speak and act is about recovery itself. The drugs are about 1% of it. In early recovery it was more about the drugs. Thank god that today the cravings and urges have been removed and thank god I can live in the solution. When I speak at meetings, I share about how the 12 steps and the principles are working in my life. (Sometimes good, sometimes it's about my struggles and growth.)
I think I get what you mean about focusing on the drugs rather than about the solution for living life without drugs. For example, in my area we have a strong, vibrant AA community and NA is not so available. That was never an obstacle for me because since I don't talk about my DOC specifically, but rather about my recovery and how I am working it in my life, I can get the help and support I need and not offend people along the way. (I hope... to clarify, I am also an alcoholic with a desire to quit drinking so I have earned my chair in AA, too.)
But, also to the point of newcomers... recovery starts where a person is at. If the cravings and urges are still there and/or the drugs have been a huge part of one's life for months or years, it may take awhile for the obsession of the mind to diminish and thus the focus to shift to more about life on life's terms.
Just my .02 for the day.
hugs,
phinny
I think I get what you mean about focusing on the drugs rather than about the solution for living life without drugs. For example, in my area we have a strong, vibrant AA community and NA is not so available. That was never an obstacle for me because since I don't talk about my DOC specifically, but rather about my recovery and how I am working it in my life, I can get the help and support I need and not offend people along the way. (I hope... to clarify, I am also an alcoholic with a desire to quit drinking so I have earned my chair in AA, too.)
But, also to the point of newcomers... recovery starts where a person is at. If the cravings and urges are still there and/or the drugs have been a huge part of one's life for months or years, it may take awhile for the obsession of the mind to diminish and thus the focus to shift to more about life on life's terms.
Just my .02 for the day.
hugs,
phinny
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 2,274
In my opinion, many of the people who share on these boards are either newcomers to NA (and going to meetings) or people who think they may have a problem with this or that drug and not going to meetings. That's why you see all of these questions about this or that drug. Anyone who goes to NA meetings on a regular basis and works the program knows that addiction is the problem, not this or that drug, and that the 12 steps are the solution!
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Never, Never land
Posts: 2,851
Keep it simple.
Our message is: That an addict, any addict, can stop using DRUGS, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live.
When you get right down to it, our goal is to NOT USE DRUGS.
So, that's what we talk about.
.
Our message is: That an addict, any addict, can stop using DRUGS, lose the desire to use, and find a new way to live.
When you get right down to it, our goal is to NOT USE DRUGS.
So, that's what we talk about.
.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: To the left of your other right
Posts: 18
For me, I know (not think) I have a problem with drugs and I'm not going to meetings which is why the obession has returned. Posting to this board for the past few days is really the most I have actively contributed to my recovery in almost a year.
My first post after being gone for a while, was a reflection of the mental civil war to pick up which was at the forefront of my thinking even though I know that is not the solution. I think that is unavoidable for me at this time since drugs are my knee jerk answer to stress and once I get an idea in my head...
I've meet people at meetings with a firm foundation in recovery who occassionally get tunnel vision because they have come up against a new wall and feel their resistance to it and the accompanying stress and then there goes that knee jerk reaction.
So if recovery happens everyday would it not make sense that drugs may come up as the issue again when you're learning to live life on life's terms even if you have a good amount of recovery time and the obsession has lifted or am I misunderstaning your initial comment, Rez? The people whose recovery I have always admired are the ones who get sidetracked that way but also have an opposite (and stronger) knee jerk reaction to pick up the tools of recovery instead.
My first post after being gone for a while, was a reflection of the mental civil war to pick up which was at the forefront of my thinking even though I know that is not the solution. I think that is unavoidable for me at this time since drugs are my knee jerk answer to stress and once I get an idea in my head...
I've meet people at meetings with a firm foundation in recovery who occassionally get tunnel vision because they have come up against a new wall and feel their resistance to it and the accompanying stress and then there goes that knee jerk reaction.
So if recovery happens everyday would it not make sense that drugs may come up as the issue again when you're learning to live life on life's terms even if you have a good amount of recovery time and the obsession has lifted or am I misunderstaning your initial comment, Rez? The people whose recovery I have always admired are the ones who get sidetracked that way but also have an opposite (and stronger) knee jerk reaction to pick up the tools of recovery instead.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Monroe LA
Posts: 14
Well, I just thought that perhaps things have gotten off track a little lately, we do as individuals and as groups tend to stray and get off track at times. The first two replies made some very good points, then of course as usual on this board someone wants to "take issue" with... I figured as much would invariably happen on this forum. My point is that though we talk about many things in NA, our focus however is on recovery, not using. But this isn't NA after all is it.... And much of the discussion of late has focused more on using than recovery.
It's why I don't contribute much to this board. Make a point pertaining to recovery and someone always feels the need to step up, shoot from the hip and try and gun you down. - shrugs -
It's why I don't contribute much to this board. Make a point pertaining to recovery and someone always feels the need to step up, shoot from the hip and try and gun you down. - shrugs -
Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: To the left of your other right
Posts: 18
Oops..in my last post I incorrectly addressed my question to Rez instead of D72992.
I understand this. However, this forum is for NA members, recovering addicts and those who are still actively using (you will also find all three at an NA meeting).
I have reread this thread three times trying to see what you see. I don't and, even if I did, why take such a defeatist position? Why not keep contributing anyway despite this?
Originally Posted by D72992
...then of course as usual on this board someone wants to "take issue" with... I figured as much would invariably happen on this forum.
Originally Posted by D72992
My point is that though we talk about many things in NA, our focus however is on recovery, not using. But this isn't NA after all is it.... And much of the discussion of late has focused more on using than recovery.
Originally Posted by D72992
It's why I don't contribute much to this board. Make a point pertaining to recovery and someone always feels the need to step up, shoot from the hip and try and gun you down. - shrugs -
doing the inside job
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: planet happy
Posts: 542
All these words or quotes came from the NA Basic Text.
I came from a middle class background were success was ASSUMED.
I was taught that drunks and addicts could not solve their own
personal and emotional problems and were moral degenerates.
The first drug I ever use was vadka, after which I blacked out
and passed out.
I had heard marijuana didn't do much,so i smoke 4 joints in a row
just to make use, it worked.
My life, with all it's positive fixtures to the onlooker from the outside,
had become a living hell. They knew little of my problems and
understood it.-----NOT AT ALL. lmaf
I use to wonder " WTF am I going to do, if I don't get loaded".lol
I have always been a skeptic from a very early age.
I questioned everything, EVERYTHING BUT USING.
2 years of college proven even further that this world
and everything in it, was full of crap.
I went into the military. They afford me the same opportunities I had at home.
I can say I was responsiable person becuase I had rank and did
this or that, but it was only becuase they gave me advance directions
on what to do,when to do it, and how much.
However, I met a young lady who met all my requirements.
I enter into a relationship I was not mature enough to handle.
I thought i could change for her.
WE RAN OFF AND GOT MARRIED.lol
My wife and I were two kids playing house.
We began going to clubs, drinking and living it up.
I thought at this time that I had found it, this was life.
Yet my wife always knew this led to progressive deterioration in our marriage.
I tried to do right-at work ,in my marriage and in rasing my children.
I would be doing well, then I fail.
My first wife divorced me, that gave me an excuse to go wild.
Even my arrest and loosing my daughter weren't as scary as
having to grow up. I didn't know where to begin. I had no idea
of how to grow up and no idea of what it really ment.
I had a job and was working steadily.
Material things were the basis for my happiness in my life at this time.
After attaining a lot of these things, happiness and peace of mind did
not come.
I started to try suicide. I didn't feel that I had any reason to live.
I could not deal with the world.
I thought I was from another planet.
I felt totally insane after my last suicide attempt.
I cannot remember feeling the simplicity of being a child.
Still, the main question I address to myself was
" Who am I and where in this universe do I fit in?"
Only after standing at the gates of death did I want to understand.
I think death is counsel permanent, but it was just a place where I
always wanted to be. It was just before going over the brink and
everything seemed okey. When I come out of it, I could say,
"WOW, give me some more" That's insanity!!
The capacity to feel human was lost.
I retreated into a world of isolations and chemicals.
I could not live life on life's terms.
I came from a middle class background were success was ASSUMED.
I was taught that drunks and addicts could not solve their own
personal and emotional problems and were moral degenerates.
The first drug I ever use was vadka, after which I blacked out
and passed out.
I had heard marijuana didn't do much,so i smoke 4 joints in a row
just to make use, it worked.
My life, with all it's positive fixtures to the onlooker from the outside,
had become a living hell. They knew little of my problems and
understood it.-----NOT AT ALL. lmaf
I use to wonder " WTF am I going to do, if I don't get loaded".lol
I have always been a skeptic from a very early age.
I questioned everything, EVERYTHING BUT USING.
2 years of college proven even further that this world
and everything in it, was full of crap.
I went into the military. They afford me the same opportunities I had at home.
I can say I was responsiable person becuase I had rank and did
this or that, but it was only becuase they gave me advance directions
on what to do,when to do it, and how much.
However, I met a young lady who met all my requirements.
I enter into a relationship I was not mature enough to handle.
I thought i could change for her.
WE RAN OFF AND GOT MARRIED.lol
My wife and I were two kids playing house.
We began going to clubs, drinking and living it up.
I thought at this time that I had found it, this was life.
Yet my wife always knew this led to progressive deterioration in our marriage.
I tried to do right-at work ,in my marriage and in rasing my children.
I would be doing well, then I fail.
My first wife divorced me, that gave me an excuse to go wild.
Even my arrest and loosing my daughter weren't as scary as
having to grow up. I didn't know where to begin. I had no idea
of how to grow up and no idea of what it really ment.
I had a job and was working steadily.
Material things were the basis for my happiness in my life at this time.
After attaining a lot of these things, happiness and peace of mind did
not come.
I started to try suicide. I didn't feel that I had any reason to live.
I could not deal with the world.
I thought I was from another planet.
I felt totally insane after my last suicide attempt.
I cannot remember feeling the simplicity of being a child.
Still, the main question I address to myself was
" Who am I and where in this universe do I fit in?"
Only after standing at the gates of death did I want to understand.
I think death is counsel permanent, but it was just a place where I
always wanted to be. It was just before going over the brink and
everything seemed okey. When I come out of it, I could say,
"WOW, give me some more" That's insanity!!
The capacity to feel human was lost.
I retreated into a world of isolations and chemicals.
I could not live life on life's terms.
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
I really think what the original post was about is really getting taking out of context here. We can justify everything to be wrong by someone saying something. In reality, if we focus on the solutions rather than the problem, the Solution is Recovery from the disease of addition, the problem is diseased thinking.
I attend NA for solutions and Ikeep living in the solutions.
Peace,
Todd J.
I attend NA for solutions and Ikeep living in the solutions.
Peace,
Todd J.
doing the inside job
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: planet happy
Posts: 542
Chapter 10 Basis text
MORE WILL BE REVEALED.
Whatever the problems issues I have, someone else has gone thourgh
and someone else will probably go though it again.
The answers/salutions are there. Its even in the book .lol
Often we have to face some type of a crisis during our recovery.
Such as death of a love one, finanacial difficuties,or divorce.
These are realities of life, and they don't go away just becuase
we get clean. Some of us even after years of recovery, found
ourselves jobless, homeless, penniless. We entertained that recovery
is not paying off, and the old thinking stirred up self pity, resentments
and anger. No matter how painful life's tragedies can be FOR US*.
Onething is clear WE MUST NOT USE NO MATTER WHAT.
Whatever pain we experience will past.
We grow through pain in recovery and often find that
such a crisis is a gift, an opportunity to experience growth
by living clean.
A spiritual awakening is an on going process.
We experince a wider view of reality as we grow spritually.
.................................................. .............................
Relationship problems ????????
It's in the book.
By loving ourselves, we become able to truley love others.
This freedom is the idea that no matter what happens to me today,
GOD and I can handle it if I don't use drugs.
Sometimes I still want to be crazy, especailly where women are
concern. but it's get better ..lol
When I became my own friend, God added a women to my life.
That has been a learning and growning experince.
The relationship forced me to work my steps and call my sponsor.LMAF
In relationships, I have to learnd how to be my own best freinds
and work on myself. Then I have something that the woman wants.
I think women GIVE beautiful gifts and are great teachers.
OmFG..that's funni....
MORE WILL BE REVEALED.
Whatever the problems issues I have, someone else has gone thourgh
and someone else will probably go though it again.
The answers/salutions are there. Its even in the book .lol
Often we have to face some type of a crisis during our recovery.
Such as death of a love one, finanacial difficuties,or divorce.
These are realities of life, and they don't go away just becuase
we get clean. Some of us even after years of recovery, found
ourselves jobless, homeless, penniless. We entertained that recovery
is not paying off, and the old thinking stirred up self pity, resentments
and anger. No matter how painful life's tragedies can be FOR US*.
Onething is clear WE MUST NOT USE NO MATTER WHAT.
Whatever pain we experience will past.
We grow through pain in recovery and often find that
such a crisis is a gift, an opportunity to experience growth
by living clean.
A spiritual awakening is an on going process.
We experince a wider view of reality as we grow spritually.
.................................................. .............................
Relationship problems ????????
It's in the book.
By loving ourselves, we become able to truley love others.
This freedom is the idea that no matter what happens to me today,
GOD and I can handle it if I don't use drugs.
Sometimes I still want to be crazy, especailly where women are
concern. but it's get better ..lol
When I became my own friend, God added a women to my life.
That has been a learning and growning experince.
The relationship forced me to work my steps and call my sponsor.LMAF
In relationships, I have to learnd how to be my own best freinds
and work on myself. Then I have something that the woman wants.
I think women GIVE beautiful gifts and are great teachers.
OmFG..that's funni....
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
When I got here I tried to "fix" the forum. I was pretty protective of NA.
It's been a little over 2 years and guess what? the only thing that has really changed is me. I finally figured out that the Narcotics Anonymous program ( a set of principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives , key wortd being can .. it's optional ) is the Literature. It's not a meeting, and it's certainly not the people who attend meetings. I don't need to protect it. I need to practice it.
I've also learned ther are really only 2 reasons to be here at SR.. To get help and/or to give it.
Thats the mission statement of the founder of soberrecovery.com.
It's his house and he's gracious enough to let us NA members have a little piece of cyber space to use to carry our beloved NA message.
What better way to do that than to encourage, support, and keep sticking quotes from the Basic Text, the it works how and why, and the just for today in front of the newcomers face until they can keep coming back clean, work the steps and... "as they go on come to an understanding of the program" for themselves?
If anything dude I would hope you would post more and drop the d72992 flavor on us.
It's been a little over 2 years and guess what? the only thing that has really changed is me. I finally figured out that the Narcotics Anonymous program ( a set of principles written so simply that we can follow them in our daily lives , key wortd being can .. it's optional ) is the Literature. It's not a meeting, and it's certainly not the people who attend meetings. I don't need to protect it. I need to practice it.
I've also learned ther are really only 2 reasons to be here at SR.. To get help and/or to give it.
Thats the mission statement of the founder of soberrecovery.com.
It's his house and he's gracious enough to let us NA members have a little piece of cyber space to use to carry our beloved NA message.
What better way to do that than to encourage, support, and keep sticking quotes from the Basic Text, the it works how and why, and the just for today in front of the newcomers face until they can keep coming back clean, work the steps and... "as they go on come to an understanding of the program" for themselves?
If anything dude I would hope you would post more and drop the d72992 flavor on us.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,709
Sometimes, I'm gonna find the answer to my question in a war story.
Sometimes, I might find it in the trigger that just clicked in my head after reading some dude's latest 'log...
And said dude might just re-read his post and have the light bulb pop in his head for the first time. Or the last... Dig?
It's funny the way addicts and alcoholics get through to me a lot easier if I just listen a little more, and park my preferences at the door.
Recovery, for me, is a benevolent pandemic of flavors, as the Gooch one says.
Sometimes, I might find it in the trigger that just clicked in my head after reading some dude's latest 'log...
And said dude might just re-read his post and have the light bulb pop in his head for the first time. Or the last... Dig?
It's funny the way addicts and alcoholics get through to me a lot easier if I just listen a little more, and park my preferences at the door.
Recovery, for me, is a benevolent pandemic of flavors, as the Gooch one says.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: out there...
Posts: 2,653
Aua Contraire Dan!
I have never used benevolent and pandemic in thes ame sentence.. Heck I don't even think I have ever used pandemic in a sentence. Oh ! I just did! Right there! Did you see that?
( Oh great another one of my not yets just became a yet. )
I have never used benevolent and pandemic in thes ame sentence.. Heck I don't even think I have ever used pandemic in a sentence. Oh ! I just did! Right there! Did you see that?
( Oh great another one of my not yets just became a yet. )
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Greentree, PA
Posts: 276
Benevolent pandemic? Isn't that an oxymoron? Sorry, Dan/Gooch...I am not taking issue with either of you!
Further to what Dan said....one of the things that has helped me to stay clean for the last five months is reading stories about the suffering and agony of those who are still using drugs or who are trying to detox from drugs. It serves as a much needed reminder to me that if I pick up again, I am buying myself a one way ticket to misery and loss.
I read the "recovery" stuff, too....and it also helps me. That's why I like it here. I wouldn't be clean today if not for this site.
Ashley
Further to what Dan said....one of the things that has helped me to stay clean for the last five months is reading stories about the suffering and agony of those who are still using drugs or who are trying to detox from drugs. It serves as a much needed reminder to me that if I pick up again, I am buying myself a one way ticket to misery and loss.
I read the "recovery" stuff, too....and it also helps me. That's why I like it here. I wouldn't be clean today if not for this site.
Ashley
Livin' the NA WAY
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Lewis & Clark Area
Posts: 52
I was taught to lead by example.
I was also taught nobody is perfect.
We have a couple old timers, and a lot of newcomers that can go on and on about usage. When I share I try and share about my recovery and how working the program theNAway has helped return my life.
We also have a lot of newcomers who like to share that they love our NA group because they can talk about drugs, and I have corrected them more than once, that I love to talk about recovery FROM drugs. I also know they won't get this in one day, I didn't. But as long as I try and watch what I do and say, hopefully they will learn the difference.
If I just stopped going to meetings, what would that accomplish? Nothing.
What happens if I stick around? Hopefully my talk of recovery VS. their idea of talking about drugs will change over time...
Just a thought...
Chad H.
I was also taught nobody is perfect.
We have a couple old timers, and a lot of newcomers that can go on and on about usage. When I share I try and share about my recovery and how working the program theNAway has helped return my life.
We also have a lot of newcomers who like to share that they love our NA group because they can talk about drugs, and I have corrected them more than once, that I love to talk about recovery FROM drugs. I also know they won't get this in one day, I didn't. But as long as I try and watch what I do and say, hopefully they will learn the difference.
If I just stopped going to meetings, what would that accomplish? Nothing.
What happens if I stick around? Hopefully my talk of recovery VS. their idea of talking about drugs will change over time...
Just a thought...
Chad H.
Vision of Hope
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Living on This side of the green!!
Posts: 1,057
Jimmy K. said:
My ideas and opinions are just that, they are mine, I own them. People will be people, I can only carry the message and be an instrument of God, and hopefully our spirits will meet in the middle. Too get upset because that one said that, or that one said this, is pretty much an act of self-centeredness. Resiprosity- Live and Leat Live: Do on to others as you would have done to you......
Peace,
Todd J.
NARCOTICS ANONYMOUS, OUR PURPOSE
This is an informal group of drug addicts, banded together to help one another renew their strength in remaining free of drug addiction. Our precepts are patterned after those of Alcoholics Anonymous, to which all credit is given and precedence is acknowledged. We claim no originality but since we believe that the causes of alcoholism and addiction are basically the same we wish to apply to our lives the truths and principles which have benefited so many otherwise helpless individuals. We believe that by so doing we may regain and maintain our health and sanity. It shall be the purpose of this group to endeavor to foster a means of rehabilitation for the addict, and to carry a message of hope for the future to those who have become enslaved by the use of habit forming drugs.
STARTING MONDAY NIGHT OCT. 5, 1953
This is an informal group of drug addicts, banded together to help one another renew their strength in remaining free of drug addiction. Our precepts are patterned after those of Alcoholics Anonymous, to which all credit is given and precedence is acknowledged. We claim no originality but since we believe that the causes of alcoholism and addiction are basically the same we wish to apply to our lives the truths and principles which have benefited so many otherwise helpless individuals. We believe that by so doing we may regain and maintain our health and sanity. It shall be the purpose of this group to endeavor to foster a means of rehabilitation for the addict, and to carry a message of hope for the future to those who have become enslaved by the use of habit forming drugs.
STARTING MONDAY NIGHT OCT. 5, 1953
Peace,
Todd J.
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