Mastrik

You know, I've just 6 months clean but have been researching and checking out other recovery programs such as LifeRing (www.unhooked.com) and others, just wanted to see if anyone has any experience with these and possibly what opinions are.
(I pretty much am branching out mainly because of my God-stance (or lack of) and the increasingly religious overtones of NA, AA, etc. (I know spiritual not religious). But my spiritual leanings (decidedly Eastern), have no central, single, multiple, loving God or anything. So I do not pray, ask to remove shortcomings, or turn my will over to anything, although I am not against others doing so or believing what they will. Also on a side note, I am actively involved in NA so I'm not slamming it or looking to "get out" just supplementing it with programs more in line with my belief system.
I dunno.
I am interested in your opinions.

Gooch

I read the explanation of the symbol in the front of the Bsic Text and it said "the outer circle denotes a universal and total program which has room within it for all manifestations of the recovering person."

that and the third tradition was enough for me to ride through the "religious overtones" of any of the members ..

I know many practiitoners of eastern spiritual paths that found themselves quite comfortable in NA .

Are you sure it's just not the dis-ease rasining havoc with you ? If you aren't trying to convert anyone and you feel comfortable with your own convictions to let members who believe differntly be comfortable with theirs, why would you need to shop?

Blake

What up dood,

I have a problem when people try to preach at NA too. I am strongly against western religions, (maybe a little too strongly) b/c I feel they are religions based on guilt. I have found alot of comfort in eastern religions, especially taoism, and it has helped me form a concept of my HP. I look at life and human nature as a power greater than myself that is good and loving. This program is open to every drug addict regardless of religion or lack of religion.

I went to a speaker meeting Sunday and the speaker (who was awsome) had 18 years clean and she is an athiest...proof for me that religion isn't a requirement to stay clean.

Peace,
-Blake

P.S.- One of my guilty pleasures at a meeting is that when someone starts to preach, I call them on it. I know I shouldn't be judgemental, but someone preaching to me 5 years ago and running me out of the rooms, could have killed me. I don't want that to happen to anyone else. NA needs people like you to show newcomers that the god thing doesn't have to be The God Thing.

mackat

heh mastrik

i do NA.
been clean over nine years.

I came in beat down. decided i had to do what someone else had done in recovery.

later on, i did investigate and incorporate much more Eastern spirituality into my recovery. Today, Rumi is as much a part of my daily readings as JFT.

i go to 6 different NA meets in this area. Not one has the SLIGHTEST tinge of any one 'religion'. buddhists, native americans christians, jews and new agers in recovery here....but mostly folk who feel so comfortable in their spirituality to the extent they seem to never feel the need to get into the particulars...
most important - it works - tons of clean time for all of them

mel ash - the monk/addict- has a good book- 'Zen and Recovery'.

hugs
mackat

Gooch

To realate/testify what works for you is one thing, to dmand that someone else adopt it is another.

The paradox is when I have a strong emotional reaction to someone because I think they are being judmental or predjudiced and that reaction tells me I have just joined them in that character defect.

Phinneas

I, too, have Eastern leanings. I think of myself as a trans-spiritualist, seeking Truth from many sources. (We are not alone even in this, huh?) I have also found a home in the 12-steps progams of NA / AA. For me, the two co-exist quite peacefully.

But I say go ahead and supplement your NA program with other forms of recovery and/or spirituality. I don't have any experience to offer with LifeRing. Sorry. But I applaud your willingness to look at other sources.

hugs,

phinny

Moontime

Quoted for truth

doorknob

Hey Mastrik,

I think LifeRing is great. I go to AA/NA, but often feel out of place because the discussions are almost always god oriented. It makes it a bit difficult to share in discussions when you can't relate to the topic or simply believe the opposite of the point that everyone else is driving. I've met some great people that I like and respect, and everyone is always friendly and caring. Those things keep me coming back when I do, but I don't go to as many meetings as I would if they were more secular in nature. When I was home visiting the SF Bay Area, I went to some f2f LifeRing meetings and felt very comfortable and at home. It's caring and supportive like AA/NA but without the theistic overtones. In fact, there is nothing religious/spiritual about it at all, it is truely secular. There are no f2f meetings where I live or I would go. They also have online meetings which I use, if you haven't checked them out already. Not that you would, but I wouldn't suggest dropping what you are doing, but there's nothing wrong with checking out all possible resources. Don S could tell you quite a bit about SMART Recovery.

Doorknob

doorknob

Hey Blake,

Did she happen to say how she used the program as an atheist?

Doorknob

P.S. I believe that something can be "religious" in nature and not be a "religion", atleast by dictionary definition. Their definitons are very close in the dictionary and I've seen them listed as synonyms for each other. I guess I'm just curious why so much effort is taken to draw a distinction between the two.

Blake

She said she viewed nature and the program of narcotics anonymous as powers greater than herself.

(from dictionary.com)
re·li·gion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-ljn)
n.

-Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
-A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
-The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
-A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
-A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

I guess by the deffinition, NA itself could be considered a religion, so could life ring, so could the democratic party or your job...

Good point. I guess I have religious devotion to a bunch of decidedly non-religious things.

Gooch

I used to have a bumper sticker that said "My karma ran over your dogma"

michski

Yes it was hard to deal with all the God stuff when I first joined AA. But to quote a sponsor of mine " it doesn't matter if you call a doorknob your higher power.. as long as it isn't you" We drunks and addicts have to get out of our own heads.. it's just as simple as that. Spirituality comes in lots of different flavors, sizes and colors. I never knew how really miserable I truly was until I found my spiritual path.

doorknob

I've heard that one a few times!

Doorknob

servicejunkie

I can't speak to much of AA, and lets not confuse the two, but NA meetings in my area and most other areas and states I visited have not had religious overtones. I have been to several AA meetings which use "the lords prayer" and have strong christian overtones, but have not seen that or heard much about that at NA meetings. I don't think I've ever heard a specific god mentioned EVER in my homegroup. We try to strictly follow the traditions and not alieanate or leave out anyone from experiencing the gift of freedom from the enslavement of active addiction as experienced through the 12 steps of NA. Not believing in a specific diety is not a valid reason (if there is a such excuse) in my book not to work the 12 steps. There is very good literature around, at least in this fellowship, about working the steps for athiests, agnostics, or other believe systems without a specific "god" belief. There is some good stuff if you go to www.nawol.org
Its been a while since I last posted, Been very busy with my new career change. I really miss everyone on here and you will definately hear more from me in the near future. Love & Respect, Mike

servicejunkie

Check out the chapter entitled "power greater than ourselves", in the NA way of life book. There is a section entitled "athiests" on there, followed by the meditation section. This has all been written by NA members, many of them with 20-30 years clean. Anyone who wants to contribute to writing it, regardless of clean time, is always welcomed to participate!!

tyler

I can second that about NA. That is one of the big differences between the two. You didn't mention your drug of choice, but even if it is alcohol, NA considers alcohol a drug, so don't worry. Give it a try.

doorknob

Interesting read, thanks for posting that link. It still seems to be written with the presumption that "God" exists, except from the actual quotes of atheists. It also seems to presume that there are no other paths to recovery besides NA.

Doorknob

doorknob

Hey Tyler, I like that NA is not substance specific too. But, Mastrik's issue was with the theistic nature of the program, and he was inquiring about alternative methodology and support. Did you checkout the link that Servicejunkie posted? I had never read that before. I'm interested in your take on it. Mastrik, are you still around?

Doorknob

Blue2085

I too follow alot of eastern philosophy, especially tantra. lol
I had to lighten up the age old stuggle of religion.

I personally think to each his/her own on this topic.

hugs
Miss Blue

tyler

Hey DK,

I was agreeing that NA was much less "God" centered than AA tends to be. This is based on my personal experience of attending both fellowships in several different parts of the country. I seemed to encounter many more people in NA that had "god issues" than AA. Many in NA considered the group to be their higher power, because through using the power of the group they were able to stay straight, which was somthing they were unable to do on their own, thus it was something more powerful then themselves. That was probably the description I could get my arms around the easiest, I never bought into the doorknob as a HP thing, as a doorknob doesnt have any real power over me. Of course if there is a lock on that doorknob, there my be some power there!!!!

If the problem is the philosophy that one's spirituality must be addressed in order to acheive "recovery" not just sobriarty, a different program other than a 12-step one is probably in order. The entire program is built on repairing one's "spiritual person" that drugs and alcohol have broken down. In my opinion this spirituality doesn't have so much to do with a relationship with a higher power, but developing a positive relationship with ourselves. Many of us have intentionally done dammage to ourselves for years and years and we need to reconsile those feelings and learn to love and respect ourselves. Many do this with a relationship with a higher power as someone or something to guide them. Generally speaking if it was something we could have done on our own we would have done it a long time ago, who really wants to live with this pain? That leads back to the concept of the group as a higher power, if the group can help us learn to love ourselves and stop hurting ourselves through our drug use and other behaviors, maybe it is a concept that can work for athiests and agnostics. I think I've almost talked myself into it!!!!!