BonScottish

As a man who has been on the search for not only a solid tool of recovery...but a tool box that matched his line of work so to speak....I find the teachings of AVRT intriguing. I have been studying Anton LaVey's teachings from the Church of Satan...though I dont consider myself a Satanist...I do connect with the message of self responsibility and affirmation. I see a lot of similarities in AVRT. Like LaVey Mr. Timpley in his personal writings and blogs comes across at times "one size fits all" or elitest. But it's nothing that ruins his ideology or philosophy on recovery for me. From my reaserch thus far into Ratioal Recoverry... I believe in each and every man resides a beast.* This beast lives in the brain.** No matter the individuals social, economical, religious,* or political stance or place in this world the beast is there.* The beast controls all pleasure seeking thoughts and urges. Every time you choose to indulge in substances, behavior,* and/or both that are contary to a balanced life... it's the beast part of your brain that is pleasured and craves. The larger part of your brain seeks only for sustainability,* safety, and procreation. (Imo). Responsible use of food, sex, hobby, drink, etc etc.* The beast is the party animal.* Some animals can be tamed and some can never be domesticated.** This is the parallel metaphor in the addicts mind.* Addicts have a beast that can never be tamed.* It is like trying to keep a great white shark in a swimming pool and the owner wonders why it bites and destroys everything.* Only an addict keeps getting into the pool with said beast.* Not everyone is an addict....therefore not everyone has an issue with his/her beast.** So I don't compare my beast with those that have no problems with their beast.* At the same time one size doesn't fit all.* This type of thinking will not work for all.* Just like AA or 12 step methods do not work for all.* Me being one of them.**

Algorithm

It's good that you believe in self-responsibility, BonScottish, because that will certainly help you with AVRT. It's not quite like the intensive inpatient rehab that you went to recently, or its aftercare.

I would wager that the general idea there was that something "works" on you to remove or mitigate the desire to get drunk. In AVRT, nothing "works" in that sense. You are on your own against the Beast, and you administer your own cure.

Have you gone through the free AVRT crash course at the Rational Recovery web site?

Have you read the book Rational Recovery: The New Cure for Substance Addiction by Jack Trimpey, which explains AVRT in greater detail?

Have you read through the main AVRT discussion threads on this forum?Do you have any questions about AVRT?

BonScottish

Thanks for reply. I did read through the crash course and ordered the book from Amazon last week. I'm currently scanning through the threads now. However I am currently in a WTF. I went through all the last weeks and was able to curb the AV. Saturday I gave in and I am left wondering how/why I could be so foolish/week etc etc. I understand the addicts mind outside looking in. However understanding myself and the how/why I would do the same thing knowing the consequence frustrates me 100%. I am still optimistic and have made my big plan again. I look forward to getting more insight and guidance on this subject.

GerandTwine

Hi BonScottish,

I have discovered that the SR forum mode of discussion with its ground rules, with the anonymity of the members’ real identities, and with the permanence of the conversations for review and future learning and reflection; all this makes it an ideal medium for learning about AVRT and The Big Plan as addicted people practice applying it in their lives. It easily allows people to go back and read and think about their past thinking. In other words, it’s a more articulated form of Re-cognition.

With all this in mind, I have also found it very useful for people wanting to learn AVRT to inspect and report in extreme detail exactly what was going on in their thinking, feeling, and behaving in the fifteen minutes just before they had that first drink after they had professed of making a Big Plan.

This detailed reporting, or Re-Cognition, can help immensely in moving beyond the “frustration” you now experience in apparently not understanding yourself as to “why I would do the same thing [drink some more]” – especially after having professed “I Will Never Drink Again.”

Your detailed report and then your hearing back from those here who want to help you learn AVRT will make this sort of a Forensics on The Beast thread. I hope you feel comfortable engaging in doing this.

So, I look forward to hearing your detailed report about the fifteen minutes just before you had some more to drink – the sentences that you were thinking to yourself, the various feelings that you can recall having at the time in as much detail as possible, and what you were actually doing in those fifteen minutes. And, of course, don’t leave out the Big Plan, and when and where that came up during those fifteen minutes.

GT

PS, In a related exercise, Do you believe you can lie to yourself? If so, try telling yourself a lie and report whether or not it fooled you.

Algorithm

This will all become more clear as you read through the book and the discussion threads, but one of the key differences between the AVRT approach and others you have previously run across is that we don't focus on trying to remove desire or the Addictive Voice.

The key to AVRT lies in recognition of and separation from the AV, not in removing, refuting, or running away from the AV. In the logic of AVRT, your desire to 'curb' (restrain) the AV is simply a plan to drink in the presence of AV. That desire is actually the Addictive Voice itself.

When you receive the book, read it by yourself, in a quiet room, without any other distractions. You need to be able to recognize the AV in your own thinking. Don't read it with the TV on in the background, for example, and don't just "scan" through it.

Work through all of the ACTION exercises at the end of the chapters. Bear in mind that your Beast can see through your eyes and read along with you. It will be looking for loopholes as you read through the book.

BonScottish

I am in a great place right now. Since getting my book and practicing the AVRT methods I have been without a drink for over a week now. I made my big plan without any pressure or pity party. I just said... I am finished with this. I was offered a drink from a colleague at a dinner on Friday...he didnt know my situation. It was in a large setting, so I thanked him, put the drink down, and continued on with my conversation. Later on I asked the waiter to take the drink and someone chimed in at my table saying they would take it. Haha. Anyways I will say my AV chimed in a few times. Saying its only 1 drink....c"mon. But as the book says. The beast is a beast. Not me. I am a man and of more power than the small part of my brain that desires a drink. So yea I feel cured. I am very satisfied with my current path of recovery. Thanks for reading.

Algorithm

That's it, BonScottish.

No fear. No retreat. No surrender.

Set your confidence level for lifetime abstinence arbitrarily at 100%, recognize all self-doubt as the Addictive Voice itself, and let the Beast count time since its last drink. Only prisoners count time.

The Beast is now a prisoner, and you are the warden.

Live free.

dwtbd

You' re TNT, you'll win the fight
Congratulations!!

terall

It's that simple! Five years ago I made the same Big Plan with AVRT, the Beast never overcame the human in me again.

GerandTwine

It's nice hear from you terall. I appreciate your appearance here so long after your recovery from addiction.

My first post on SR was also well after I had ended my recovery.

AVRT ***ROCKS***!!!

GT

terall

GeraldTwine, By the very nature of AVRT, self-reliance, making the Big Plan (I will never drink again and I will never change my mind) and being done with drink , then never looking back, I don't think people understand what an effective technique it can be, what a life saver. So I feel the need to stick my oar in and tell people it can and does work whenever I see people willing to try it.
It does indeed rock!

BonScottish

After 2 solid weeks of reading and studying AVRT and maintaining sobriety I gave in to my AV and drank 16 beers on Saturday. The only difference between this particular lapse and others is I know I drank because I wanted to serve my desire and wanted the pleasure. Nothing more or less besides just simply succumbing to a primitive desire. I started to feel anxious and excited on Friday at the thought of drinking. This made me nervous. I started reading Rational Recovery chapter on relapsing and I allowed my beast to use this as motivation. On Saturday I didnt even give up a fight...nor did apply anything that I had been doing for the past couple of weeks. It sucks but again as I said above I know why. I just simply gave into pleasure seeking. Anyways Im back to making my big plan again.

dwtbd

Glad you're back. I hope you do make a Big Plan with a big addendum on not changing your mind, you can make that plan.
You could also think about maybe coming here and posting if you start to decide that 'one more' pleasure seeking beast fulfilling night is worth it. Try and convince a bunch of Phd's(former drunks) of the plan. I bet the conversation would be worth it. Not that anyone can or should make choices for you , it's that bouncing ideas around can help divine a truer perspective.

MythOfSisyphus

Very well put!

GerandTwine

Hi BonS,

Thank you for this post. It reminds me of myself well before I actually had enough negative consequences caused by my drinking to seriously consider quitting for good. It appears that's where you are at this time, and I also congratulate you for investigating this method of taking personal responsibility for quitting so you can be preemptively informed when the time comes that you really want to quit.

Either you didn't make the Big Plan of AVRT, or you didn't have all that beer. You obviously can't have done both. So, you are experimenting with the IDEA of the Big Plan. Remember, by its very meaning, the Big Plan can be done only ONCE in anyone's lifetime regarding a particular abstinence.

I've picked two scenes from that hilarious comedy Bowfinger to express how I would have thought of the AV at different points in my addiction.

Very early on, where it appears you are now, I would have thought of my AV as Steve Martin in the following scene:

bowfinger daisy's topless scene - Google Search

I was doing something that was naughty but pretty easy to get away with and the chances were that enjoyment with only some embarassment would result. There's no reason to make a Big Plan to avoid this.

But...

When I finally quit drinking all the way up to now, I've thought of the AV as Steve Martin in the following scene, luring me over to Daisy. (representing the pleasure of drinking some more).

bowfinger eddie murphy highway - Google Search

Very good reason to make a Big Plan here.

GT

BonScottish

I can understand that. One thing about this lapse I have noticed is the level of regret and shame I have been feeling. Its like the book say....we truly do forget the pain of our drinking. Our mid brain literally spits that part out and focuses on the pleasure. I guess I was starting to feel like I was cured in some respects...then do drink again really hurt my confidence and self esteem.

CelticZebra

I found AA, RR, smart and even SR at some point around 10 years ago.
I was a binge drinker and could go for months so never took anything too sriously,nth inking I was cured, I didn't have a problem.
It took many more regrets and another 8 years of intermittently binging and then 'giving in' to <blah, blah, X use, excuse, blah, whatever>, hard life, pleasure seeking, etc
Finally I found the online crash-course and made a big plan that I strengthened ever day and now over 3 years clean.
Keep on keeping on
You can do this.

Somebody keeps reminding people that beast is to AV as dog is to bark.
Good to remember that no urge-surfing is necessary, just catch the AV in motion and know it can't hurt you, it can't make you pick up a glass, let alone wiggle your fingers....
Try it

Keep reading and posting... SR IS THE BEST RECOVERY TOOL IN MY KIT

Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself

GerandTwine

Hi BonS,

The word "Cure" in "Rational Recovery the New Cure for Substance Addiction" does not mean it's time to drink some more because you are "cured". It means you are cured from ever having a problem from drinking or struggling with whether or not to drink ever again. You will be freed from the whole one day at a time powerless learned helplessness mentality that pervades our society.

GT

Algorithm

I realize that you have gone through rehab, but this focus on day counting right off the bat almost suggests the setting of new abstinence records every day, as if abstinence were a miracle. Your Beast would love for you to believe that!

The Beast is as locked on to that last drink as it is locked onto the next, and is obsessed with with how very long it has been without a drink. In other words, who's doing the counting? You, or your Beast?

Regarding this notion of "giving in" -- that sounds a lot like "white knuckling", and it's not generally how we do things with AVRT. Are you debating or arguing with the AV, by any chance?

Remember also that the idea that abstinence requires some deep stuff, or that there is some deep, deep riddle to AVRT that you need to figure out in order to abstain, is the Addictive Voice itself.

The Beast is injecting doubt, suggesting that you need to study diligently, and that if you don't, that you will drink. You may just recognize that as AV, as the Beast barking.

There is a "two-ness" to AVRT, and it is important to maintain that separation. Your anxiety is its excitement. Your Beast (IT) wants to drink, and feels excited about drinking, but since that desire is not you, but the Beast, you don't even want to drink.

You may feel the Beast's desire, but there is no need to feel anxious about it. Let the Beast desire all it wants -- it cannot engage the muscles. It can only appear to be you, so that you do its bidding.

GerandTwine addressed this quite elegantly.

I'll just add that AVRT is not an "I can't drink" recovery model. The Beast knows full well that you certainly can drink, because anyone can pour drinks down their throat. The Beast will easily drive a beer truck through that kind of thinking as soon as you start to forget the pain.

Even if you don't forget the pain, the Beast won't be deterred. If pain from drinking is a precondition for abstinence, all the Beast would have to do is to argue that past pain is no guarantee of future pain. It will point out that you might just get away with it next time.

One solution is to meet the Beast on its own turf. You can decide that even if nothing bad would happen, and even if drinking would feel absolutely wonderful, and send you rocketing to cloud nine, that you would still abstain. You can close those loopholes, and decide to abstain from the benefits of drinking.

In other words, no more choosing not to drink. No more daily decisions based on statistically likely bad outcomes. No more playing the tape all the way through to scare yourself sober. Freedom.

BonScottish

Thank you all so much for the words.