New to RR and looking for advice
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 288
New to RR and looking for advice
Hi everyone --
I've been looking at different plans and came across RR recently (AA didn't really work for me). The ideas behind RR intrigue me, and I'd like to learn more. Any of you have advice on where to begin? How to get started? I'm 56 days sober now. This board has been a great place of support. I'm looking to get more active in my sobriety now.
I appreciate any advice you can share.
Thanks ahead of time!
Mike
I've been looking at different plans and came across RR recently (AA didn't really work for me). The ideas behind RR intrigue me, and I'd like to learn more. Any of you have advice on where to begin? How to get started? I'm 56 days sober now. This board has been a great place of support. I'm looking to get more active in my sobriety now.
I appreciate any advice you can share.
Thanks ahead of time!
Mike
Galatians 5:13
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
The Rational Recovery book (Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction) is an excellent place to start. You can find it on Amazon or on the Rational Recovery website (rational.org).
The book when read from the beginning is all you'll need, but there is great support and advice on SR as well. Check out some of the stickies on Rational Recovery.
Mike: Congratulations on your sobriety and welcome to Sober Recovery (SR).
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The book when read from the beginning is all you'll need, but there is great support and advice on SR as well. Check out some of the stickies on Rational Recovery.
Mike: Congratulations on your sobriety and welcome to Sober Recovery (SR).
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Galatians 5:13
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tampa Bay
Posts: 329
Mike, you'll find FreshStart to be knowledgeable and passionate about RR. He helped me a great deal when I first started to navigate RR.
For me, the key is always the R part of AVRT. You can't allow your AV to take hold of your identity and impersonate you. You must not reason, respond, or remove your AV.
You must always, in all situations simply "R"ecognize when your AV starts up and give it a swift, no.
For me, the key is always the R part of AVRT. You can't allow your AV to take hold of your identity and impersonate you. You must not reason, respond, or remove your AV.
You must always, in all situations simply "R"ecognize when your AV starts up and give it a swift, no.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 288
It's quite the paradigm shift in thinking. It makes sense to me. From what I'm gathering, the Beast is something that I thought was me but really is something that kept me from me, if that makes sense. I'm working on being more mindful of my AV and not giving it power.
The biggest thing though -- I'm not going to drink. Not today. Not ever again. It's just not an option.
The biggest thing though -- I'm not going to drink. Not today. Not ever again. It's just not an option.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SE Arizona
Posts: 1,099
Log onto the Rational Recovery website and look at the "crash course". That will give you a pretty good idea of what RR is about. Many people claim that they stopped drinking for good just from reading the crash course. Good luck!
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Originally Posted by RattleAndHum 
It's quite the paradigm shift in thinking. It makes sense to me. From what I'm gathering, the Beast is something that I thought was me but really is something that kept me from me, if that makes sense. I'm working on being more mindful of my AV and not giving it power.
The biggest thing though -- I'm not going to drink. Not today. Not ever again. It's just not an option.
The biggest thing though -- I'm not going to drink. Not today. Not ever again. It's just not an option.
The beast was a part of me, and still is I guess, but it became a separate part once I made my big plan. Just like breaking off that abusive romantic relationship, once that decision is made to end it, the part of you that yearned for that person is still part of you, but separated from your future vision you have for yourself.
I like your insight that it kept you from yourself, and that is the real cost of addiction. I also like your Big Plan. Very nice indeed! And cultivating mindfulness is so very important. Like Tammy says, the Recognition aspect is essential.
Set your confidence all the way to 11, R&H. Believe in yourself, and assign any self doubt to the Beast, just one of the cheap miserable tricks it will use to turn you back to that hell hole. You are free, simply because you deserve it. You are free to make plans again, to dream and hope. You are free to live. Onward!
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wisconsin near Twin Cities
Posts: 1,745
I wandered into the Rational Recovery approach after decades of trying other things, hoping for something external to flip the switch in my head. I used to fret about why nothing seemed to work for me. Slowly I realized that the decision to quit and the follow up actions were always within my power. It was simple when it hit me.
Reading the RR book really helped cement the facts in my head. Two things that were particularly helpful were having the potential subtlety of the AV pointed out. Anything that creates a condition for possible future drinking is AV, even the idea that I need to check in here once in a while to keep my AV under control. What? If I don't check in here, I might weaken and drink? Nope! I could walk away from here and never, ever have to worry about my AV again.
The other was the fist test. Make a fist and then give your AV 100% permission to punch you in the face. Encourage it, insult it, taunt it. It never happens because my AV Has zero control over my physical actions, I do. It is always ultimately my choice whether a drink gets raised to my lips, no one or nothing else's.
Reading the RR book really helped cement the facts in my head. Two things that were particularly helpful were having the potential subtlety of the AV pointed out. Anything that creates a condition for possible future drinking is AV, even the idea that I need to check in here once in a while to keep my AV under control. What? If I don't check in here, I might weaken and drink? Nope! I could walk away from here and never, ever have to worry about my AV again.
The other was the fist test. Make a fist and then give your AV 100% permission to punch you in the face. Encourage it, insult it, taunt it. It never happens because my AV Has zero control over my physical actions, I do. It is always ultimately my choice whether a drink gets raised to my lips, no one or nothing else's.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Roseville, Ca
Posts: 35
" Slowly I realized that the decision to quit and the follow up actions were always within my power. It was simple when it hit me."
Exactly Jazz, I think AA complicates recovery with a bunch of religion and lots of nonsense imo, with that said I support all programs, what ever works for you is the path to take.
I met the founder of RR, his early writings are very good and right on imo too. But knowing more about how he started and his idea that you should not attend F2f self help groups and his attacks on religious programs he has lost his way years ago. But again take what works and leave the rest.
Take Care
Bob O.
Exactly Jazz, I think AA complicates recovery with a bunch of religion and lots of nonsense imo, with that said I support all programs, what ever works for you is the path to take.
I met the founder of RR, his early writings are very good and right on imo too. But knowing more about how he started and his idea that you should not attend F2f self help groups and his attacks on religious programs he has lost his way years ago. But again take what works and leave the rest.
Take Care
Bob O.
Guest
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Canada
Posts: 50
Discovering the Rational Recovery system certainly was a game changer for me as well. Reading Alan Carr's book The Easy Way to Quit Drinking changed the game even further, to the extent that it got me entirely out of the game of alcohol. It was the perfect complement to the Rational Recovery approach.
The brilliant thing about Carr's approach is that it targets desire. For me, it completely obliterated any trace of desire with which my Addictive Voice had formerly tempted me.
Just like if one has a serious problem with a tooth and has that tooth extracted - the pain simply vanishes since the source of the pain has been uprooted. The experience of pain is then no longer possible. In a similar way, I have found that I actually cannot feel any desire for alcohol. It's quite simply no longer even possible for me to desire it. My Addictive Voice hasn't once returned since reading Carr. My return to alcohol is just as unlikely as my returning to play with the toys of my childhood. Where there is no desire, there is no return.
The beauty of the approaches of both Trimpey and Carr is that they can be seen to align with evidence based approaches to addiction, particularly in the area of neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity teaches that the brain is highly adaptable and changeable, where it was formerly believed to be static or immutable. The process of disputing thoughts that one finds in both Trimpey and Carr (and Albert Ellis, whose thought was massively influential on Trimpey) is one of the effective means with which one can effect neuroplastic changes in the brain.
Neuroplasticity makes it possible to 're-wire' the brain, and to reroute it away from those pathways of the brain which have become moulded into its structure by means of rote, of habit and routine. One can literally establish new lines of thinking which steer the individual away from proclivities, predispositions and tendencies which have become ingrained through routine and repetition.
I would highly recommend Jeffrey M. Schwartz' "You Are Not Your Brain" and Norman Doidge's "The Brain That Changes Itself" for further insight on the neurology and biology of change. Schwartz' book is a guidebook on how to utilize a self-directed neuroplastic method.
The brilliant thing about Carr's approach is that it targets desire. For me, it completely obliterated any trace of desire with which my Addictive Voice had formerly tempted me.
Just like if one has a serious problem with a tooth and has that tooth extracted - the pain simply vanishes since the source of the pain has been uprooted. The experience of pain is then no longer possible. In a similar way, I have found that I actually cannot feel any desire for alcohol. It's quite simply no longer even possible for me to desire it. My Addictive Voice hasn't once returned since reading Carr. My return to alcohol is just as unlikely as my returning to play with the toys of my childhood. Where there is no desire, there is no return.
The beauty of the approaches of both Trimpey and Carr is that they can be seen to align with evidence based approaches to addiction, particularly in the area of neuroplasticity. Neuroplasticity teaches that the brain is highly adaptable and changeable, where it was formerly believed to be static or immutable. The process of disputing thoughts that one finds in both Trimpey and Carr (and Albert Ellis, whose thought was massively influential on Trimpey) is one of the effective means with which one can effect neuroplastic changes in the brain.
Neuroplasticity makes it possible to 're-wire' the brain, and to reroute it away from those pathways of the brain which have become moulded into its structure by means of rote, of habit and routine. One can literally establish new lines of thinking which steer the individual away from proclivities, predispositions and tendencies which have become ingrained through routine and repetition.
I would highly recommend Jeffrey M. Schwartz' "You Are Not Your Brain" and Norman Doidge's "The Brain That Changes Itself" for further insight on the neurology and biology of change. Schwartz' book is a guidebook on how to utilize a self-directed neuroplastic method.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
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I quit at Home after downing a 1.75 L 'Handle' of Vodka every 3 - then 2 - Days during nonstop Drinking in Early Retirement, and promptly discovered the RR Short Course linked here. That gave form to a Process I was already undergoing. It was my time. Either that, or deploy one of several Guns kept in the House. That is one critical aspect of not lifting that first Glass to your Lips: you - and only you - have to decide that it's your time to quit. I focused on me. Not saving The World, or anyone else...
The rest, to me, is mainly about back-filling Structure to the Quit Decision, and then access Tools to navigate not Drinking/Using in a Drinking Culture. For me, this pivotal Process continues solely here on SR. I like to/have to be able to use lil blivets of Time while in line at the Store to check in by Mobile, or write at length here at Home about challenges.
I also need/like being out in The World among The Recovered. Vets of this Recovered Process. Folks getting on successfully, and living Sober. For me, this is not unlike a Vietnam Vet meeting another Vet. I'm not one, but common experiences 'click'. Resoundingly. The Recovered Sober 'get' who I now am. We actually don't talk about it much. That commiseration is pure Gold. IRL, or here...
I can't covet, or lapse back into using, that which I no longer want. Full Stop.
~100 Years ago - and prior - Folks quit. Come time to steel up and engage a Self-Directed Program or Process, consider that inarguable Fact...
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I quit at Home after downing a 1.75 L 'Handle' of Vodka every 3 - then 2 - Days during nonstop Drinking in Early Retirement, and promptly discovered the RR Short Course linked here. That gave form to a Process I was already undergoing. It was my time. Either that, or deploy one of several Guns kept in the House. That is one critical aspect of not lifting that first Glass to your Lips: you - and only you - have to decide that it's your time to quit. I focused on me. Not saving The World, or anyone else...
The rest, to me, is mainly about back-filling Structure to the Quit Decision, and then access Tools to navigate not Drinking/Using in a Drinking Culture. For me, this pivotal Process continues solely here on SR. I like to/have to be able to use lil blivets of Time while in line at the Store to check in by Mobile, or write at length here at Home about challenges.
I also need/like being out in The World among The Recovered. Vets of this Recovered Process. Folks getting on successfully, and living Sober. For me, this is not unlike a Vietnam Vet meeting another Vet. I'm not one, but common experiences 'click'. Resoundingly. The Recovered Sober 'get' who I now am. We actually don't talk about it much. That commiseration is pure Gold. IRL, or here...
I can't covet, or lapse back into using, that which I no longer want. Full Stop.
~100 Years ago - and prior - Folks quit. Come time to steel up and engage a Self-Directed Program or Process, consider that inarguable Fact...
.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 288
Wow. Thanks for all of these thoughtful replies. There's certainly a lot of knowledge on these boards. Thank you all. This has really been a huge shift in self awareness for me. Looking back, I can see so many instances where my AV was king. No more of that.
I'm over 8 weeks into sober living, but much of that time was clouded by thoughts that I was doing something wrong because I wasn't going to meetings, working with a sponsor and doing the steps. Not that I have anything particularly against that if it works for people. But this plan and the ideas behind it are liberating and game changing for me. I can see a way to be more active and aware in my sobriety. Thanks for the knowledge, everyone.
I'm over 8 weeks into sober living, but much of that time was clouded by thoughts that I was doing something wrong because I wasn't going to meetings, working with a sponsor and doing the steps. Not that I have anything particularly against that if it works for people. But this plan and the ideas behind it are liberating and game changing for me. I can see a way to be more active and aware in my sobriety. Thanks for the knowledge, everyone.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
RattleAndHum, I started looking into these ideas from other sources, and learned more about mindfulness and meditation. I also learned about what psychologists call 'the lymbic hijack', and it describes how the lower brain functions can drive action so very quickly. This explains what happens when someone posts and says, 'I don't know how it happened but i drove to the liquor store and made a selection, paid for it and drove home'. The key to dealing with this is awareness, mindfulness, and learning that these thoughts in fact require no action at all. We, our rational cortex brains, can control the lizard lymbic brains if we choose.
It isn't always easy, but that doesn't matter, the degree of difficulty doesn't enter in to the outcome in the least. You can do this because you say so. You are in control. Recognize the sound of the beast when it speaks, separate from it as being 'other' because you have this Big Plan, accept its presence, and just get on with whatever the heck you were doing.
Eight weeks is terrific, R&H. Now you have shown yourself this ability, what is next? Onward!
It isn't always easy, but that doesn't matter, the degree of difficulty doesn't enter in to the outcome in the least. You can do this because you say so. You are in control. Recognize the sound of the beast when it speaks, separate from it as being 'other' because you have this Big Plan, accept its presence, and just get on with whatever the heck you were doing.
Eight weeks is terrific, R&H. Now you have shown yourself this ability, what is next? Onward!
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
I need to add that this qualifies you as a bona fide badass. This is strong and hard and takes courage. It is a triumph of the spirit that makes us human.
Your special hat is on the way.
Your special hat is on the way.
waking down
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,641
Freshstart mentioned mindfulness and meditation. When I read RR in the thread title I first though of Refuge Recovery. You might find this interesting: http://www.refugerecovery.org/
Into the Void
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: California
Posts: 931
I would also recommend for you guys a book called Empowering your Sober Self by Martin Nicolaus, who was the founder of LifeRing. You can listen to the audiobook from iTunes or amazon while you drive or work out or whatever.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 288
Refuge recovery does sound right up my ally. I find mindfulness so helpful in many areas of life. Unfortunately, there aren't any meetings where I live in Virginia. There are online meetings I could give a try, however.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm reading "Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction" and it's truly changing my outlook. Have any of you found these concepts relevant and/or helpful in other areas? It seems like that voice has gotten its claws into many parts of my life.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm reading "Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction" and it's truly changing my outlook. Have any of you found these concepts relevant and/or helpful in other areas? It seems like that voice has gotten its claws into many parts of my life.
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Originally Posted by RattleAndHum
I'm reading "Rational Recovery, The New Cure for Substance Addiction" and it's truly changing my outlook. Have any of you found these concepts relevant and/or helpful in other areas? It seems like that voice has gotten its claws into many parts of my life.
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