NotYouAgain

-> means 'leads to.'

Non-acceptance is a form of resentment, and behind nearly every relapse we find a resentment that triggered it.

So what do we not- accept?

• That AA has the word God in their program.
• That AA literature uses He as God.
• That as a drunk I am powerless and my life becomes unmanageable.
• Praying is not for me.
• That other people do recover outside of AA.
• Certain Steps of the 12-step program.
• Reading literature about recovery.
• Reading other than AA approved literature.
• Any person who is religious, or not religious.
• . . . and the list goes on.

Recovery is hard enough without having to make it harder by holding onto reasons for differences, avoidance, and resentments.

Those who are willing to let go of their differences have a far better chance of recovery.
The AA program knows this, that is why they have the Serenity prayer, so we can let go and accept, and to accept so we can let go.

Resentments always takes center stage. Steps in front of our recovery. Steals the whole point/reason to stay sober, and even replaces recovery for relapse.

Deep down, at the foundations of our non-acceptance is a fear. It is that fear that rattles our security.
Find that fear and face it with the desire to remain sober, and the understanding and acceptance of it, will reveal that it was only our own fears that caused it in the first place.

Serenity, what recovery is all about, is being fear-less.

FeenixxRising

I honestly don't believe I ever drank because of resentments (or because of self-will run riot etc. etc). That's why the 12-Steps and AA's doctrine and ideas about alcohol abuse never really resonated with me.

At any rate, you appear to be arguing that someone with a drinking problem should simply accept AA and the 12-Steps at face value, and if they do not, they are being non-accepting, resentful, in denial, full of self-will etc. etc. Which of course, is often false. Many people realize they have a drinking problem and they also realize that abstinence is the solution (acceptance), but they also realize that AA and the 12-Steps are not the way to solve their drinking problem. And, of course, there is nothing wrong with that.

NotYouAgain

Hello FeenixRising.
My original intent was to post this somewhere else, not here in the Secular section. Sorry about that.

I do agree...

FeenixxRising

My apologies NotYou, I misinterpreted what you meant by that statement, but I understand now.

samseb5351

Is it really??

There are plenty of things in this world I don't accept, due to lack of evidence mainly? My best understanding of the word resentment is to Re-feel things, to drag up emotions (usually anger) into a space of bitterness, very much a part of being human, but also with a bit of mindfulness something that can be changed. When I don't accept things (its usually a open non acceptance-in a way, flexible) my brain is usually switched on, my mind is curious with healthy skepticism, I enquire and experiment, critically thinking my way into seeing whats in front of me and calmly seeing if it aligns with reality.
When I am resentful my brain (in terms curious enquiry) usually switched of, emotions tend to run the show, I am usually stuck and cant (nor want to) see past my own nose.

Does resentment play a role in addiction? perhaps but then again we don't we really know, i can certainly see that being resentful all the time does compromise quality of life. I imagine that many people believe poor quality of life leads back to drinking, and again that maybe the case for some, but if we go in believing resentment causes relapse, then we have probably fulfilled our own prophecy.

NotYouAgain

Hello samseb5351.
Yes resentment is re-feel things.
We have things going over and over in our mind like a broken tape-recorder, because we cannot accept it. As soon as we accept it, the tape-recorder switches off - it disappears.

Resentments is a fear that regurgitates. Anger, anxiety, depression, and all negative emotions are based on not having things go OUR way, the way we like them to, so we can feel okay and safe. (not fearful)
When things don't go our way, and we don't accept it, we suffer. And resentment is the most common method used in unresolved issues.

Resentment is to re-feel the fear. In fact we re-scare ourselves (as silly as that may seem), and the only way to deal with a fear is to accept it and face it.

If we don't accept it, resentment will play its repeated tune, and for the alcoholic, a drink to drown the recording becomes more and more attractive.

fini

NYA,

my own resentments are not usually about fear whatsoever. more about feeling unfairly treated. stepped on. belittled, dismissed, unjustly criticized.
that kind of stuff.
i'm not clear on why you use the pronoun "we" entirely through your post, as you can't be speaking for all of us.
is it your own experience you're speaking of in outlining what happens to "us" or a generalized concept from somewhere else or...?

NotYouAgain

Feeling unfairly treated etc., is having a fear of being negatively judged. The ego senses a threat (fear) to its self-esteem, its self-worth. This may seem subtle to you, but nevertheless it is a fear.
I am assuming the fact that everybody has an ego. That is, the psychological understanding of self. In that regards, 'we' all have varying levels of self-esteem (ego-energy). Much like 'we' have emotions, we have an identity, etc.

samseb5351

I don't disagree with any of these evaluations, What I do think worthwhile to challenge is how much of seeing emotional states, thoughts and "psychological understanding of self" through the Fear narrative can really help in addiction. I am a pragmatic person when it comes to recovery, but it was not always that way. Only a few short years ago with my Big Book under my arm (and dozens of other self help books) I probably would be writing similar things to you NYA.
When it is pointed out to us that we have things going on in the background of our thinking, reactive and often what seem like automatic responses to situations, it seems we tend to latch onto this new found information and fit it into a prescribed narrative, in this case you mention non-acceptance = resentment = fear. Each one of those words can mean different things in different contexts, and the linear description you have given ends up being just words strung together, with an appearance that there is some code to be cracked to obtain sobriety. That somehow those of us who have suffered from addiction, have a underlying cause tied up in particular psychological scripts like the Fear narrative. The moment I shine a light on those states of mind and connect them to addiction, I am sucked in to story that seems so True to me it can almost feel like a revelation, I have felt that in my past, but instead of being open to other possibilities I narrowed in on that story and subtly made it a "universal truth". It feels great as long as this story is not challenged, as long as you stick with others who understand and think like you, Without even realizing it your curious approach becomes a dogmatic one.

I do not deny under certain circumstances viewed through certain modalities studied in psychology that we have fears that can lead to suffering, this seems to be shared by all humans, to suggest subtly or otherwise that this lies at the heart of addiction, and therefore understanding it is the basis of recovery, is not really supported by much evidence.

NotYouAgain

Hello samseb5351.
The evidence is what you find at the heart of your own deep, honest, fearless introspection. Many recovered people have found fear to be their primary cause for dysfunctional thoughts and behaviors. And on the contrary, they found love to be their primary cause for functional thoughts and behavior. This is a universal finding. And there is no reason why it should not be a dogmatic approach, especially when it is true.

If you do not think this is true, please provide an example where fear, regardless of how subtle it is, could not play a role in the cause of seeking out self-exploitation (addiction). And, if you wish, where love could not play a role in a person's recovery from addiction.

NoelleR

"...Feeling unfairly treated etc., is having a fear of being negatively judged..."

...or perhaps a person is actually being unfairly treated, being negatively judged (erroneously). On my third day, in my first week at a new job, I was brought out and castigated, extremely loudly, by five supervisors (in front of about 300 other workers, who heard every word). When it was brought to the attention of the supervisors that it was not I who had made the error, it was whispered in my ear (believe me, not one of the 300 other workers hear a word of this), "Sorry bout that; you can go back to your work station now."

I not only felt unfairly treated and negatively judged........I WAS!!

(o:
NoelleR

samseb5351

Ok there is the end of our rational discussion, you want to bury stuff under declarations of Universal Truth, Go right ahead. And you are surprised at why people display Non acceptance.

NotYouAgain

NoelleR, I am sorry that you had such an experience at work. It is a good example of how being judged negatively can leave a scar memory, and a memory of how fearful it was at that time. Yet you knew you were innocent, and that some superiors knew that too, though their fears of judgement suppressed there support for you.

In my past, I too have experienced similar false judgments. As a result, I left two jobs. My bosses feared having an ex-alcoholic addict. I was always under suspicion if anything went wrong. But what is sadder is that for twenty-seven years now, all my family, still will not have anything to do will me. The last thing I remember is the NYA. I have had no contact since. (They either forgotten about me, still hate me, think I am dead, or still on the park bench somewhere).

Knowing our own truth is often the only leg we can stand on, and alone. But it is the only thing that will support us when everything around us is against us. Within that truth, there is no fear.

Often, on smaller matters, where conformity asks me to be untrue, I quickly go against the majority and stay with my truth. I rather be true to myself and be alone, than be false and have false friends around me. Some call this stupid, stubborn, principled, but I call this tough love. And in all cases, many of the others knew what I was doing, and also knew that they too were going against their own truths to avoid negative judgement from the majority. Fear stopped them speaking up, just like those superiors who whispered to you, NoelleR.

In reality, the majority of people live a fearful existence. It is sad.
But cheer up, we are in recovery, and in an opportunity to do something about ourselves to better stand in our own truth, and fear less.

NotYouAgain

Hello samsed5351.
I offered you a platform to give me reason to accept your proposals. Yet you refuse to back yourself up, accuse me of irrationality, and blamed me for your non-acceptance.

fini

ah, i had this glorious pure resentment which had no fear in it, no fear of being judged negatively whatsoever.
when that guy tried to whip into that parking spot i'd so patiently been waiting for...oh yes. unfair! pure resentment.

it is interesting to see you speak of knowing our own truth and standing with/by it, yet then declare Universal Truth and that my resentments are fearbased and implying that i, in fact, do not know what's true in my own experience.

NoelleR

You've read into my post some thing I did not say. Although I remember this incident (I have friends who were there, and they remind me......lolol); it's a memory, but not a scar memory, whatever that it. You assume it was fearful........not true (I would have loved a good lawsuit)........I knew I was not guilty, but innocent.....? not since I popped out of my mother's womb, and finally, even though some of these folks were my supervisors, they definitely were never my superiors..........lolol

(o:
NoelleR

samseb5351

Originally Posted by NotYouAgain
... If you do not think this is true, please provide an example where fear, regardless of how subtle it is, could not play a role in the cause of seeking out self-exploitation (addiction). And, if you wish, where love could not play a role in a person's recovery from addiction.

Hi NYA.

I never once mentioned Fear is not a component of addiction, my main point is to challenge the Fear Narrative you have put forward as a Universal Truth. If we want to we can take any label or descriptive word, or emotion, or biological term and say "give me an example where ........ could not play a role in addiction"
Check these ones out
give me an example where shame....... could not play a role in the cause of addiction
give me an example where anger........ could not play a role in the cause addiction
give me an example where my drug of choice....... could not play a role in the cause of addiction
give me an example where my past....... could not play a role in the cause of addiction
give me an example where the functioning of my brain....... could not play a role in the cause of addiction
give me an example where childhood..... could not play a role in the cause of addiction
This list could be endless.............

The problem is your declaration of Truth with the "fear" as being at the heart of addiction.
And that leading onto the idea that " love" is the answer.
What does that really mean? How do you know this? Where is the evidence?

NotYouAgain

Unfair is the fear of not getting your due respect, and how it may reflect on you.

Why should not a universal truth be also my own truth, especially since I am part of the universe.

The more self-honest we are the more truth is revealed.
The more serene we become, the more sensitive we become to the subtle fears.
The more tense we become, the less sensitive we are to those subtle fears. Hence, not seeing what others see.
The humble and meek are that way because they see the fears that play in their own life (they know their truth), and in other peoples life.

NotYouAgain

Scar memory usually refers to a memory that does not take long to recall when prompted.

Most of our fears are subtle. A person can by subtly fearful about a particular incident.
The quote, 'I would have loved a good lawsuit,' points to revenge. A revenge for what, for having your self-esteem and worth degraded by false accusations. Did not that degrading cause fear of loss of respect from others, especially from workmates. Remember how that felt, in your heart. That is called fear.

NotYouAgain

Hi samseb5351
give me an example where shame......is the fear of being a mistake.
give me an example where anger......is the fear of not having something go our way.
give me an example where my drug of choice....is the fear of not getting what I want from any other drug.
give me an example where my past...is the fear of being haunted by our past.
give me an example where the functioning of my brain....is the fear of not being able to trust my own thinking.
give me an example where childhood...any fear here could be similar to 'my past' example.
This list could be endless.............

Fear versus love evidence.
Here is one example: As mentioned above about 'anger' as being the fear of not having something go our way. Unfortunately most people respond to anger with anger. Meeting an angry person is not exactly what we want from others, so our fear of unmet expectations turn into anger in return. Soon a battle arises as to who can scare (fear) who into submission.

If this scenario is unresolved, an addict could easily seek reprieve through a relapse. However, if the addict could be honest with themselves, they would see that their anger is really an expression of their fear. That the other person was really scared, and anger is a form of fear narrative.

So, what is the best way to deal with someones anger (fear). Being angry (fearful) in return does not really work. The best way to deal with a scared person is to be gentle, reassuring, soft, listening, empathic... In other words 'loving.'