JaneLane

Hi loves

This is my first time posting here. I'm newly sober and I attend AA meetings but read around a lot. I'm very interested by a book I've read called the 12 Step Buddhist by Darren Littlejohn.

I don't know if I have missed a thread or post or anything but I'd really like to talk about buddhism and the 12 steps and how they work together. I attend my local Buddhist Centre as well as 12 step meetings and I thought it might be cool if we could exchange ideas and book recommendations?

Hope you are all having a lovely day and enjoy your Thursday :-)

sleepie

Hi Janelane, I attended a zen buddhist temple for awhile years back. Pema Chodron is very popular and I was lent her book "When Things Fall Apart", it is one that I would recommend. I haven't experience with 12 steps- but thought I'd throw Pema out there

INgal

Amazing book!!!

Boleo

Just so happens that I starting attending Refuge Recovery meetings about a month ago which was founded by Noah Levine. He is a 12 step member and author of "Dharma Punx", Against the Stream", and the book "Refuge Recovery".

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html

JaneLane

Perfect! I've heard of him! I will check out the link. Thank you

JaneLane

I will definitely check that book out. Thank you sleepie :-)

FeenixxRising

Are Buddhism and the 12-Steps really compatible? From the little I know of Buddhism, there is no "God" in the Western sense, and it's my experience that while AA may claim it is a spiritual program, its literature is absolutely inundated with a very Western, Judeo-Christian concept of God. And it is a program with a very specific spiritual doctrine that does not align very well with Buddhist doctrine

For example, Buddhism, to my knowledge, has no requirement for any adherent to confess their moral transgressions to God and another person nor any requirement to ask God to remove those moral defects. And that's just one contradiction, I believe there are others. Personally, I believe I would have to choose either the 12-Steps or Buddhism, and IMO a Buddhist approach would be the better option.

Boleo

In the Western sense, there is no supreme being. Except maybe Amitābha and Mara.

However, there are some things that might qualify as a Higher Power; Buddha Nature, Original Mind and Awakened Mind.

There are also parallels between the Eightfold Path and the 12 Steps;

1. Right Understanding (Came to believe)
2. Right Thought (Sought through prayer and meditation)
3. Right Speech (Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being)
4. Right Action (practice these principles)
5. Right Livelihood (Made direct amends)
6. Right Effort (tried to carry this message)
7. Right Mindfulness (spiritual awakening)
8. Right Concentration (continue to take personal inventory)


http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html

FeenixxRising

Those parallels seem tenuous at best IMO.

Personally, I find Buddhist principles and practice very attractive; however, I find the 12-Steps to be extremely problematic, mostly because my spiritual views preclude the idea of turning my will and life over to some type of higher power (if God gave me life and will, why would I ever return such a wonderful gift?). While Buddhist practice appears to involve humans, using their own power and experience to find their true selves and true reality.

Of course, 12-Steps adherents could use some Buddhist principles, but frankly, I believe the two spiritual practices are almost completely at odds with each other.

Andante

Well, it’s all in how you look at it.

You can focus on the differences instead of the similarities, or vice versa — it’s your choice.

While there are certainly details about the practices that don’t coincide, I see a lot of similarity in the results sought: a state of serenity and spiritual grace that transcends trivial earthly concerns and renders the use of mind-altering substances such as alcohol irrelevant.

Boleo

I believe both the Eightfold Path and the 12 Steps are algorithms that lead to awakenings. Different in form but similar in substance.

JaneLane

That's beautifully put Boleo :-)

murrill

I had a similar response when I first came to AA: I was angry with this God that had allowed me to reach such depths of despair, and I certainly was not going to trust him (of course it was a him!) with my life. No one in AA tried to recruit me to a religious sect; they never ran me out of the rooms. The simply told me that I was in the right place and to practice the steps in my life.
Today I realize that year one was a period of "unlearning" whatever I though I knew about a higher power and spirituality. At that point I was left with a blank slate, and from that point I began to understand spirituality. I am a non-theist, but I have solace in releasing myself to the care and wisdom of the universe.
I agree that AA literature is littered with religious language, butr I have become able to bypass that.

immri

Oh I'm glad I found this, I'm currently reading this book. As I just don't believe in a religious God or creator, but enjoy and benefit from AA meetings and very much believe in karma and the power of nature, connecting Buddhism (amongst other philosophies) with the steps has made it much easier for me to 'get into'
❤️

anattaboy

My take is any and all Buddhist books are worth reading as "addiction" is what Buddhism directly addresses. As for books: Anything by Thich Nhat Hanh, Thanissaro Bhikkhu, Tenzin Palmo, Bhikkhu Bodhi, HH the Dalai Lama, John Daido Loori. Shunryu Suzuki, Dogen. Everything is compatible with Buddhist practice but especially recovery. I will say that 12-step's insistence to "keep looking, peeling the onion" is why I AM a Buddhist today.

JaneLane

Oh that's cool you're reading it too! It sounds like our recovery programmes and beliefs are quite similar. I'm really enjoying the book and it's definitely sparked a huge interest in Buddhism for me.

JaneLane

That's a really interesting point. I must say that I am finding the book really helpful, more so than other addiction books I've read so far.

schnappi99

I've been practicing in one of the Nicherin sects for about 30 years, in Alanon for two. I've found them in complete accord which was very heartening for me then and now. The "inventory" focus of the 12-steps has actually been something of a transformation of the Buddhist practice, it somehow helps me gain awareness of my delusions- lol 3 Poisons sorts of things in a way the buddhist practice wasn't- which is not the fault of buddhism clearly this is a problem between keyboard and chair. My sponsor is Catholic, he's somewhat nonplussed but respectful- and I've never had a "live" window into Catholicism before so I think we both may be learning something. Its quite clear to me now I have no business making judgements about Christianity or any other religion for that matter. Lately I have been interested in interpreting judgement as Buddhist slander- lots of material on the latter and it seems to me I've done a lot of hurt to myself and those around me with judgement in general.

But on the 12-step front I've been discussing 6th/7th steps with my sponsor, adapting those two to Buddhism seems more subtle than the others. I was talking to him the other night about doing a little 6th and 7th to go with the mini 5th I just did, he indicated he wanted to do a little more reading on it so maybe "natives" find it subtle also. My pet theory at the moment is for the 6th and 7th step I need to be becoming aware of how my character defects have and do operate, their causes & effects, antecedents and consequences- more full awareness means more full choice in avoiding them. Might be I'm in the 12-step camp of those who think their defects are not removed but instead they use their spiritual fitness to avoid indulging in them. More will be revealed I am sure .

Thanks for this thread

AmbassadorOf

I read in aa comes of age that when shown the 12 steps, a buddhist monk replied with a statement, which, from what I recall, is something like - these 12 steps seem useful and helpful, but to be more compatible with our beliefs, I would replace the word god with good. To which bill w commented on, saying that he has no problems with that idea.

anattaboy

I've always used 'common sense' as a replacement but 'good' fits better. Thanks!