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Cognative Dissonance

Old 03-17-2015, 03:43 PM
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Cognative Dissonance

I hope you guys can help me...

I've been in and out of AA since May 2013,

I'm not making excuses - there has been a lot of changes in my life - and to cut to the chase, I stayed drunk more than I stayed sober.

I went to a big book study meeting tonight, got very little from it, but got into a discussion with someone I gave a lift home to, and landed in territory that I didn't want to talk about. I'm feeling annoyed and confused.

I have been reading about alternatives and AVRT makes sense to me.

The discussion went along the lines of "you don't think you have a disease, you don't think your're powerless, and you don't believe in God, why are you even coming to meetings?"

My answer was " because I have an addiction to alcohol and I don't like it, isn't that the only requirement for attendance?"

I see a lot of sense in 12 step recovery, and I'm certainly no authority on sobriety, but I'm worried about being ousted from AA in my area, because I cannot bring myself to believe certain concepts.

I don't want to convince anyone, or even talk about it. So why can't we leave it at that?

Maybe I'm reading too much into one conversation, but I've got a head full of two opposing methods, and it isn't helping.

Any suggestions?

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Old 03-17-2015, 03:49 PM
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Well since you posted in the Secular 12 step forum...um...the only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.

If someone tries to tell you otherwise, then you know to stay away from that person in the future. I found a lot of dissenting thoughts in AA meetings and those who attend them. "Thanks for your input," seemed to work for me (as I walked away). I think if you find value in attending, why not keep going?

No one can oust you
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:00 PM
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The guy who started AA didn't believe that the action / steps (of the time) would work and was vehemently anti God and such.

It's all in the book.

The weird thing about sitting in an AA meeting, wondering if the program will work is......... If it didn't, there would be no AA meetings to sit at in the first place.

Take the action and then decide, otherwise it's just a mental / intellectual exercise.

Normally not an exercise that provides any results either.

Like a dog chasing it's tail.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:05 PM
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Yes, thank you.

You are, of course, correct.

Keep it simple, as they say.
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Old 03-17-2015, 04:37 PM
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I experienced similar cognitive dissonance too, AnotherLife, when I was going to AA meetings. Most of the reasons were the same as yours, except for the belief in God. I had a strong belief there, but the God of my understanding wasn't anything like the AA one.

I had not yet heard of any other types of recovery tools at that point, but the dissonance was very strong, I simply could not see any way forward there for me, even though I persisted for a while at a few different groups. Despite the naysaying and prophesies of doom, I never did return to AA, AND I never drank again.

It wasn't at all a question of whether the AA modality works, it's whether it would ever work for me. And for me, the tail chasing would have been to continue to attend these meetings.

At the very root of this, regardless of the approach, is the necessity of only one step. Stop drinking, and never do it again. There are many ways to achieve this, to support this single step. I hope you find one that makes sense for you.
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Old 03-17-2015, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AnotherLife View Post
Maybe I'm reading too much into one conversation, but I've got a head full of two opposing methods, and it isn't helping.

Any suggestions?
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:07 PM
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"Some of the most important brain systems impaired in addiction are those in the prefrontal cortex that regulate social cognition, self-monitoring, moral behavior and other processes that the AA-type approach seems to target." (4 March 2009; Neuroscience: "Rethinking rehab", Jim Schnabel, Nature 458).

Or, you can take the AVRT approach that addiction is an impairment of the primitive parts of out brain, and the advanced parts of our brain can "out-think" addiction.
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:11 PM
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Next time make the guy walk. I am not in AA but one of the things I learned pretty quickly is that I needed to do what I needed to do despite what anyone else says. If you are getting something out of going to the meetings then go, unapologetically.
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Old 03-17-2015, 07:42 PM
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I realized early on that I could not, and did not want to, expend energy on both my Recovery, and on the wasteful distraction of bending myself into a Pretzel while trying to conform to any System that was fundamentally incompatible to my time-tested Views and Beliefs. I'm 61. I don't argue what works for me; the only Person my Recovery Program need work for.

I quit and stayed quit using AVRT after ~42 years of increasingly-hard Drinking. The idea that I'm somehow powerless to not pick up again is simply ridiculous to me. Who else is supposed to be ultimately responsible for me quitting? Over the Centuries, Folks utilized Support - as plenty of us do here on SR - and quit.

Whatever you choose, go with a Program you're comfortable with. Not unlike taking Exercise, you're going to faithfully practice and excel at what feels intuitively 'right' in your Recovering Gut.

Accept no substitutes.

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Old 03-17-2015, 09:34 PM
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Anotherlife, It sounds like you have been attending meetings for a long time and that this has limited utility. Meetings alone don't work for lots of people. It also sounds like you are giving quite allot of weight to the pronouncements of someone you gave a ride to.

I recommend asking a few simple questions of the individuals who tell you about AA. First, ask them where it is stated in the AA literature (the person you gave a ride to would likely have some difficulty with this question). Second, ask the individual if they are familiar with DOING the AA program. In this thread you can find several which pass along their 'wisdom' about an AA program they have only read about or heard about in meetings, but have never applied themselves. (Their distortions of the ideas from the program are glaring, but hardly more than a distraction.)

You state you have a head full of two different methods, so I am assuming you have never done the steps. The steps are not an intellectual exercise. Once you have done them you will have more a heart full of AA than a head full of it. At that point the chatter of an ill informed and opinionated passenger is unlikely to be much more than a minor annoyance.

If you have too much trouble doing the steps, I would strongly advise that you put your efforts into AVRT. Doing more of what you have been doing is unlikely to get you different results.
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Old 03-18-2015, 03:03 PM
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Thank you all for your kind replies.

awuh1 - I was making good progress in AA, with a sponsor and working the steps. Then infidelity, divorce battle, parenting crisis, moving out etc - (I'm not saying I'm justifed) I lost the plot, mainly because I became angry, depressed and more than a bit psychotic. If I'd had better sobriety then I would have got through this, but I didn't.

All of those excuses are well past their sell-by date now.

My sponsor lost his wife, a while back, I took on too much stressful work, and for both our sakes I called it a day.

I know AAs with good sobriety, stick with the winners, as they say.

If I get 'back in the boat' it'll be with full commitment, but until a few days ago I didn't realise there are alternatives.

I am going to take it easy - and discovery what I can about secular 12 step recovery and other alternatives, carefully choose a path that is right for me

Yes, I'm feeling weak right now, which is why a 'know nothing' (who I have helped a great deal) should not bother me, but did rattled my cage yesterday.

I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me to find perspective,

Thank you.
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