Archelon

does anyone here use NOT AA 12 step?

I am exhausted of quibbling over god, not god. and ego this, ego that.

people who most decry ego seem to have the biggest one's.

do you know the story about the magnificent watch? A man in an airport was in the sitting area and another man noticed his nice watch.

He says, "that's a nice watch"

and the first man shows him the features, how easy it is to use and the second man says he would like a watch like that.

first man says "I will sell it to you, 50 dollars"

second man pays, first man walks away and forgets his suitcases, Second man says "hey, wait, you forgot your suitcases."

first man says "those aren't my suitcases, those are the batteries for the watch.

that is how I feel about AA.

I do secular 12 steps. They tell me it won't work. Sometimes I want to say with a wink "how do you know if you don't try it?"

even atheists want to tell me how they swallowed their ego and did AA as atheist, and say prayers.

Is it ok here on secular 12 step to JUST be secular?

or does this forum have to beAA too?

biminiblue

This is the right place for the "not AA" discussion.

biminiblue

But it still is a 12 Step forum, so there's that. You're going to AA, but want to do it in a secular way? Is that what you are saying?

Maybe I should stay out of it. LOL. I don't know what I'm talking about. I just like to hear myself type sometimes.

I know there is a Secular Connections forum, where there isn't AA discussion:

Secular Connections - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information

FeenixxRising

Answers:

1) Yes, I'm sure there are a few members here who use a secular, non-AA version of the 12-Steps.
2) Yes, it is perfectly fine to talk about secular 12-Steps here. The name of this sub-forum is "Secular 12-Steps", so you're in the right place.
3) No, it does not have to be about AA. There is a separate sub-forum for those who use AA's 12-Steps, it's called "Alcoholism 12-Steps Support".

Boleo

Keep in mind that there are many different forums dedicated to many different methods of sobriety. Each attracts users who got some results using that particular method. So it is only natural that you will find proponents of a particular algorithm within that forum. It's called "Survival of the Fittest".

Sounds to me like you are disappointed that there is not a "Archelon's Way" forum.

Soberpotamus

Hi, I use a few different secular interpretations of the steps myself. I've probably read just about all of them out there My opinion of this is that we all interpret the steps through our own lens of experience anyway, so use whatever interpretation helps you and makes sense to you.

Archelon

Secular 12 steps, like this 12Steps

I do not attend AA, was wondering in anyone here does secular 12 steps.

Archelon

yes, that is why I was checking if this was secular 12 step so I would find people who use this method.

I notice often you comment to make another person seem stupid for their comment or suggest that they have some bad motive. Do you mean to make people feel stupid for being here.

I am learning where to post what. Yeah, I guess that's stupid.

Boleo

The secular 12-step forum is not so much for atheists as it is for those looking for an alternative HP instead of God. Turns out that there are lots of alternatives that work. Solipsism just isn't one of them.

I share my ESH with others in attempt to help them. I don't expect they will understand what I am talking about YET. But I do hope one day they will be openminded enough to reflect on what I have said sometime in the distant past. If that sounds condescending, well maybe it is. I don't dummy down my message even for dummys. There's plenty of backslappers around to do that job already.

I take it you have already tried the "Secular Connections" forum? If you can't find any anyone who shares your views there, I expect you never will.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the type of recovery you are looking for doesn't exist is because it doesn't get results?

Soberpotamus

Archelon you have every right to use any part of ANY program and make it work for you. I do that. I've been a part of multiple programs and I use something from them all. And please do overlook Boleo.

Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery

Boleo

I wish I could be a member of the "Just don't drink" club. I had to quit barking up that tree a long time ago - because I have the ISM of alcohol-ISM.

Not-drinking does not treat alcohol-ISM.

Soberpotamus

I'm an alcoholic too Boleo. Your condescension isn't very attractive btw. Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery

Boleo

Well I must admit... Your message is much, much, much more attractive than mine. "Stop It" is a lot easier than practicing a program.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw

Soberpotamus

That's not my message. Not sure where you come up with these one liners. Good night Boleo. Life isn't a slogan. Neither is recovery.

Sent from my iPhone using SoberRecovery

Dee74

The ignore function is very attractive too, guys....
back on topic thanks.

D

Mentium

The 'only requirement for membership is s the desire to stop drinking'. And whatever a heavy duty religious person says all that the programme offers are 'suggestions'. There really are not any rules to speak of.

I too am an atheist. It makes it harder in some ways, but in others no so much. A 'spiritual' programme is, I think, designed to help alcoholics achieve a certain level of humility and an understanding that they are not the centre of the universe. Paradoxically I have often thought that if you think a god is interested in what you throw down your throat and the workings of your brain chemistry, all the while also managing galaxies colliding, stars exploding and the rest of it, that is pretty egotistical itself!

I find humility in the knowledge that the universe doesn't give a rat's arse about me and that it is hugely more a 'higher power' compared to me. Reality and AA can do it as far as I am concerned.

Archelon

I have been sober seven years with 12 step, not AA.

One problem I had working AA was the literature was hard for me to understand. I am that dummy. I have small brain damage. I was able to work the steps when I found words that were easier for me to understand.

That's why I said my head hurts, sometimes things are hard for me to figure out. Maybe that is making me not open minded.

I am open minded enough for the 12 steps, but not quick enough maybe for this forum.

That's ok.

I was looking for secular 12 step, you are not the only one who says that doesn't work. I have read that several times here. So maybe this forum is not for me.

thank you for your ideas

neferkamichael

Archelon, FANTASTIC thread. I was so desperate to quit in the beginning that I would have shoveled 12 loads of horse manure if that's what it took to stay sober. Yes, it ok here on secular 12 step to JUST be secular, rooting for ya.

Boleo

I have met plenty of 12 stepers who could not read the Big Book for one reason or another. They did however, get a sponsor that could help them out with that.

Have you tried finding a secular sponsor? Or at least one who is willing to work with atheists?

Soberpotamus

Mentium, I believe in an indifferent universe as well. I agree with you, humility seems more likely to come from this stance than from having faith in a mystical power or current underlying all things, and especially in a god.

Regardless, there are secular twelve steps and people do use them. Archelon, this is the appropriate part of the forum to discuss these steps and ideas.