mnrn

Does anyone attend AA meetings even though they don't agree with all the premises in the 12 steps? For instance - I really hate the "I am powerless" statement. That makes me feel hopeless.

Even though I think the online community here is helpful, I feel a need to meet people in recovery face to face & I would really like to have a sponser. But I just don't agree with a lot of the philosophy of AA. There is only one Smart meeting in my area and because of the time it is scheduled I cannot go.

I don't want to get into a debate about AA. I just would like to know if there are other people out there like me & if you do go to meetings not agreeing with everything, how is it working for you?

mnrn

Coldfusion

The statement is "I am powerless over alcohol." If you believe you can control your drinking, AA will not work for you.

LBrain

I disagree with CF. I don't buy into most of what the 12 step organization preaches. However, I do go to meetings. A lot fewer than I did a month or 2 months ago. It's been about two weeks since my last meeting.
One of the benefits of going to meetings is seeing the people first hand, hearing their stories or how their life is miserable all the time. But as was mentioned on another thread, I can't understand why folks are so miserable and hopeless after years of attending.
It's all about attitude and living life. Adjusting one's perspective on the realities of their situation. The old AA cliche' 'We must change everything...' Yes and no. Accepting the whys and hows that brought us to this predicament is key. And also, that we are in this predicament. Call it a disease, addiction - ism, whatever you wish. The thing is, for most if not all of us, we will never be able to resume drinking again without consequences. It might not happen right away which is the catch. Eventually we will be right back where we were when our lives crumbled the last time. I'm rambling...

Just go to meetings. Don't worry about what is "expected" of you in the meetings. Go for yourself, learn what you can and apply it to your situation. Who knows, you might have a spiritual awakening or two while you're there.

Ipanema

With some time Sober, I often hear that people have very challenging lives after their success with quitting drinking. Often we find that we are still from dysfunctional families. Our primary or current situation can be overwhelming. Perhaps we did not have the opportunities to learn how to live life in accordance with the belief that a Higher Power will restore us to sanity. And, suddenly, we seek help for our problems with marriages, jobs,, and blending in sober. We find that we need help in many other areas and, with professional help, learn skills that will enhance our interactions with others. The peeling of the onion takes so long. It did for me. I am still working with the same counselor after many many years. For me, to try to recover alone, is testing my Sobriety to the limit. I believe my Higher Power sent me for extra help since my parents were Alcoholics and so were their parents. Adaptation to life on life's terms was to drink the problems away. They did the best with the tools they had. Ipanema

Boleo

What you say makes a lot of sense. I had to discard almost everything that made sense to get the Spiritual Awakening. Spiritual principles don't need to make sense to get results.

Thus my tagline >>>

Soberpotamus

I went not agreeing with everything. And I also read the literature. At this point, I find I agree with a whole lot more than I started out agreeing with. And that's been surprising to me!

Keep an open mind if you go. Try a few different meetings. I don't think it's necessary to agree with every single tenet. And I also think it's good not to try and "fight" these things in your mind. Let them sit. You will find what they actually mean to YOU, and how your mind can wrap around them. AA isn't about shoving things down your throat. Some may try, but that's not how it was intended.

mnrn

Coldfusion - I don't think I can control my drinking while I am drinking - that is why I have to stop and never drink again. But I do think I can choose to stop drinking - and that is where the powerless thing bugs me. If we are truly powerless over this addiction how can anyone ever stay sober? Do you know what I mean?

Boleo

Seeing as this is a 12 step forum - Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps I try to carry this message;

A spiritual awakening attracts an Higher Power (like a lightning rod attracts electricity)
That Higher Power solves the drink problem for us
It is almost effortless (provided we stay spiritually fit).
It requires zero power from the individual
It is not the same as not-drinking - Not-drinking requires local power
It does not make sense to those who have not experienced it
It is an experience that must be lived to be understood
It is like a Zen concept - It is 100% experience - 0% rationalization
The spiritual realm is under no obligation to make sense

schnappi99

I've heard of "not yets"- meaning people who aren't yet so dependent on alcohol that they can't stop- in effect addicted, with only 3 ways out; in jail, institutionalized or dead. Or put another way, if you can't control the drinking once you start then how much power do you really have?

2muchpain

I just go to meetings and don't do much else. I do try to use the 12 steps in my life, minus the god part. For me, that's a separate issue.
I also believe that the longer you are sober, the more you DO have a choice as to whether you drink or not, but it does take a lot of work, and many changes. I am definitely powerless when I am drinking. But I also think that making good choices requires the support and wisdom of others, thus the reason I continue to go to the meetings

Johnston

I go much less frequently than I used to. My tolerance for god talk just isn't what it used to be.

Pete55

Ha! big words,

The only place I found the word related to preaches is in Bill's story on page 9 and 10 of the BB, before he recovered while drinking.
So CF, you sound like ya drunk, same as Bill was when Ebby approached him at the time, an opinion.
< grin>

So a brand new person joins this forum, reads opinions, loses hopes, leaves and drinks again, all because of an opinion that has nothing to do with recovery and hope.
Nowhere in the 12 steps does it say to preach in the BB.
Others may interpret it differently, but it don't say preach.
Show me what page other than page 9 and 10 does it say the AA'rs, preach !
If it sounded like preaching at a meeting of AA, then that's that meeting, talk to the secretary, that's what they are there for.

As for you lot with issues over the word powerless, stick your ego where it don't fit. It's in the past tense, we admitted, we were powerless over alcohol.
That means, do you have the power to stop the craving for more alcohol after alcohol is consumed ? Do you you have the humility to be honest about YOUR drinking, can you control it?
If you can, then maybe you are not the real alcoholic as described perfectly clear on page 21.

Johnston

I would say "carry this message" fits the bill. (No pun intended)

fini

Boleo,
yeah, it's a 12-step forum, but it is also an expressly SECULAR 12-step forum, so posting about spiritual awakenings and spiritual principles in order to get the results you want seems like it would belong well in the regular 12-step forum but here not so much.

Boleo

"That the man who is making the approach has had the same difficulty, that he obviously knows what he is talking about, that his whole deportment shouts at the new prospect that he is a man with a real answer, that he has no attitude of Holier Than Thou, nothing whatever except the sincere desire to be helpful; that there are no fees to pay, no axes to grind, no people to please, no lectures to be endured-these are the conditions we have found most effective. "
(PAGE 18)

"You will be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection."
(PAGE 95)

DoubleBarrel

The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to quit drinking.

Period.

End of sentence.


Do I have issues with some of the other peoples interpretations of the program?

Well, I suppose, if I wanted to. But it works for them and I don't have to follow anyone's suggestions. I can allow other people to have thoughts and ideas I don't necessarily agree with because they generally aren't imposing them on me.

I choose to listen to some, including my sponsor, who has been amazing, but he is also an atheist. And he has been sober over fifteen years, so he has a few legitimate things to share.

DoubleBarrel

I disagree. In fact, in chapter three of the big book, there is prescribed a method for dealing with those who think that they can drink. They actually encourage it, saying that it is worth a case of the jitters if it helps understand your true condition.

AA is for ANYONE who wants to stop drinking. Many of us still believed or hoped that we could control it.

Boleo

The words "spiritual awaking" are kinda built into the 12 steps.

"12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs."

Ipanema

When I tried to stop on my own, it was almost impossible. Any little thing that I didn't know how to handle without alcohol, would create a huge desire to drink. What I found out years later is that it is believed by scientists that alcohol can alter the brain. It creates the desire/addiction whereby the alcoholic truly almost needs the alcohol to function. Over time, during abstinence, the brain heals and the urge subsides. If the person later picks up alcohol then the desire will mostly like return and the brain will be in an addictive state. (please excuse my encapsulation of a much more scientific event but it makes so much sense in my mind).

After going to meetings over a very long time, I saw people leave and come back. Quite often they come back more beat up by alcohol than before. Lost jobs, families in chaos, and drinking more often than ever.

The reasons to go to AA for me is to share my experience, to listen to others, to be reminded of where I came from and to know I never want to go back to Alcohol. Any ideas of experimentation are erased by the unfortunate experiences of others before me. I would rather have my sober problems and work to solve them than to 'give up' and lose all that I worked for.

If not AA than where can we find others like us who understand what we experience because, when all is said and done, we have the Alcoholic mind and will probably always need to be reminded that we need each other's support.

schnappi99

I was listening to a seminar by a couple hardcore 12-Steppers, the kind that slice and dice every nuance and wring out every bit of meaning, when they sponsor they set schedules for 4th/5th step checkups... very unflinching and thorough.

But they also listen very carefully to everyone who shares in the meetings because today it might be that their Higher Power speaks to them through the long-timer who has never tried working the steps. As per the seminar they choose a classical definition of Higher Power using conventional terminology, but thats them. Others might choose the group conscience or some philosophy.. it doesn't matter, as they said in the seminar the only rule is it can't be yourself.