Curious about financial amends
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 285
Curious about financial amends
I'm getting ahead of myself here because I'm not up to this step, but I'm getting close. I'm curious what the general consensus is on this. I have stolen a lot over the years from a couple of particular big name retailers. Considering how much these companies are worth, the amount I stole would be a drop in the bucket to them. But to me, still playing the "pay just enough off of each bill to stay afloat" game, these amounts are HUGE! Is the actual dollar amount important in paying back owed money? I've heard stories of people doing something to help out the store (like gathering carts in the parking lot) as a way of making it up. Is that acceptable? Also, in most cases I don't really have a dollar amount anyway. I can take a guess, but I took things not money so I can't know for sure. I want to make these things right, but money is such a huge stressor for me right now that adding so much more to pay off honestly just scares the hell out of me!
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Essex
Posts: 411
It's a good question, and am just up to making amends now. I learned last week that an amend is an implied promise to change the behaviour that caused the damage. If your habits have changed since becoming sober, in one way, although not directly to these companies, you have been making amends already by changing your behaviour at work.
Before answering I took a look at the BB guidance on this (pp 76-83) so that may be worth a read, and a look through with your sponsor? See particularly 2nd from last paragraph on P83. The part my step sponsor pointed out most of all, was that the promises follow that paragraph - the implication being that well made amends, will move us closer to all of those. Sounded good to me
One of the ways I've made amends in the past is by making small, monthly charitable donations, as like you, it would have been impossible financially to make instant financial reparation, and I was advised against making direct, in person amends in this instance. To tie it to the companies you worked for, maybe they have a CSR programme you can either donate to, or take part in some kind of fundraising for their CSR progamme? You can always make that offer in person
The other advice I was given this time when considering amends is to consider which need to be made now/as soon as possible, which will keep (where this doesn't endanger my sobriety) and which I need to wait to do....seeking guidance in the meantime from my HP, sponsor, trusted friends.
Am sure others with more experience will have other suggestions on how to approach, and sure your sponsor will too.
Wish you well
Before answering I took a look at the BB guidance on this (pp 76-83) so that may be worth a read, and a look through with your sponsor? See particularly 2nd from last paragraph on P83. The part my step sponsor pointed out most of all, was that the promises follow that paragraph - the implication being that well made amends, will move us closer to all of those. Sounded good to me
One of the ways I've made amends in the past is by making small, monthly charitable donations, as like you, it would have been impossible financially to make instant financial reparation, and I was advised against making direct, in person amends in this instance. To tie it to the companies you worked for, maybe they have a CSR programme you can either donate to, or take part in some kind of fundraising for their CSR progamme? You can always make that offer in person
The other advice I was given this time when considering amends is to consider which need to be made now/as soon as possible, which will keep (where this doesn't endanger my sobriety) and which I need to wait to do....seeking guidance in the meantime from my HP, sponsor, trusted friends.
Am sure others with more experience will have other suggestions on how to approach, and sure your sponsor will too.
Wish you well
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 285
Originally Posted by Pipefish 
It's a good question, and am just up to making amends now. I learned last week that an amend is an implied promise to change the behaviour that caused the damage. If your habits have changed since becoming sober, in one way, although not directly to these companies, you have been making amends already by changing your behaviour at work.
Anyway, I purposely haven't asked my sponsor because her answer will be that I'm not there yet so stop thinking! I'm trying not to think about it, but I'm so stressed out over just making ends meet right now that I've been really dreading this step. I think I'm just seeking a bit of reassurance so I don't put this off. There are certain financial debts that I absolutely want to pay back in full, and it upsets me that I can't even think about doing that right now. I badly need to learn to find some peace with financial issues. I have total faith that I will be taken care of, but I just feel so exhausted from counting every penny and praying I have enough gas in the tank or enough money in the bank to keep the power on.
Thanks for your reply...I really appreciate it. I'm sure this will become more clear for me in time. For now I'm just trying to keep it from becoming one more way for me to feel inadequate.
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
Originally Posted by Riverbird
I'm getting ahead of myself here because I'm not up to this step, but I'm getting close. I'm curious what the general consensus is on this. I have stolen a lot over the years from a couple of particular big name retailers. Considering how much these companies are worth, the amount I stole would be a drop in the bucket to them. But to me, still playing the "pay just enough off of each bill to stay afloat" game, these amounts are HUGE! Is the actual dollar amount important in paying back owed money? I've heard stories of people doing something to help out the store (like gathering carts in the parking lot) as a way of making it up. Is that acceptable? Also, in most cases I don't really have a dollar amount anyway. I can take a guess, but I took things not money so I can't know for sure. I want to make these things right, but money is such a huge stressor for me right now that adding so much more to pay off honestly just scares the hell out of me!
One way to look at it is that it is not your money. It's theirs.
Look at it with the idea that it was a loan, and pay it back in full.
Make it right in your soul. In the universe.
All. Not some.
God will supply you with whatever you need as you go forward at the time.
No need to worry. No need to future trip!
Relax and take it easy. One day at a time.
I'm proud of you that you have the willingness to clean up the past.
Hooray for you.
A 9th Step Prayer :
“God, with regard to this amend, please remove my Fear and give me the strength, courage and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. Amen”(79:1)
An Ninth Step Meditation:
“Dear God, please show me if finishing my amends has anything to do with my drinking again or not…”
"Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be."
Into Action
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 405
"Most alcoholics owe money. We do not dodge our creditors. Telling them what we are trying to do, we make no bones about our drinking; they usually know it anyway, whether we think so or not. Nor are we afraid of disclosing our alcoholism on the theory it may cause financial harm. Approached in this way, the most ruthless creditor will sometimes surprise us. Arranging the best deal we can we let these people know we are sorry. Our drinking has made us slow to pay. We must lose our fear of creditors no matter how far we have to go, for we are liable to drink if we are afraid to face them.
Perhaps we have committed a criminal offense which might land us in jail if it were known to the authorities. We may be short in our accounts and unable to make good. We have already admitted this in confidence to another person, but we are sure we would be imprisoned or lose our job if it were known. Maybe it’s only a petty offense such as padding the expense account. Most of us have done that sort of thing. Maybe we are divorced, and have remarried but haven’t kept up the alimony to number one. She is indignant about it, and has a warrant out for our arrest. That’s a common form of trouble too.
Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything.
Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit. A man we know had remarried. Because of resentment and drinking, he had not paid alimony to his first wife. She was furious. She went to court and got an order for his arrest. He had commenced our way of life, had secured a position, and was getting his head above water. It would have been impressive heroics if he had walked up to the Judge and said, “Here I am.”
We thought he ought to be willing to do that if necessary, but if he were in jail he could provide nothing for either family. We suggested he write his first wife admitting his faults and asking forgiveness. He did, and also sent a small amount of money. He told her what he would try to do in the future. He said he was perfectly willing to go to jail is she insisted. Of course she did not, and the whole situation has only since been adjusted.
Before taking drastic action which might implicate other people we secure their consent. If we have obtained permission, have consulted with others, asked God to help and the drastic step is indicated we must not shrink."
Into Action
~
Be strong and courageous, and do the work. Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the Lord God, my God, is with you.
1 Chronicles 28:20
Perhaps we have committed a criminal offense which might land us in jail if it were known to the authorities. We may be short in our accounts and unable to make good. We have already admitted this in confidence to another person, but we are sure we would be imprisoned or lose our job if it were known. Maybe it’s only a petty offense such as padding the expense account. Most of us have done that sort of thing. Maybe we are divorced, and have remarried but haven’t kept up the alimony to number one. She is indignant about it, and has a warrant out for our arrest. That’s a common form of trouble too.
Although these reparations take innumerable forms, there are some general principles which we find guiding. Reminding ourselves that we have decided to go to any lengths to find a spiritual experience, we ask that we be given strength and direction to do the right thing, no matter what the personal consequences may be. We may lose our position or reputation or face jail, but we are willing. We have to be. We must not shrink at anything.
Usually, however, other people are involved. Therefore, we are not to be the hasty and foolish martyr who would needlessly sacrifice others to save himself from the alcoholic pit. A man we know had remarried. Because of resentment and drinking, he had not paid alimony to his first wife. She was furious. She went to court and got an order for his arrest. He had commenced our way of life, had secured a position, and was getting his head above water. It would have been impressive heroics if he had walked up to the Judge and said, “Here I am.”
We thought he ought to be willing to do that if necessary, but if he were in jail he could provide nothing for either family. We suggested he write his first wife admitting his faults and asking forgiveness. He did, and also sent a small amount of money. He told her what he would try to do in the future. He said he was perfectly willing to go to jail is she insisted. Of course she did not, and the whole situation has only since been adjusted.
Before taking drastic action which might implicate other people we secure their consent. If we have obtained permission, have consulted with others, asked God to help and the drastic step is indicated we must not shrink."
Into Action
~
Be strong and courageous, and do the work. Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the Lord God, my God, is with you.
1 Chronicles 28:20
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