LuckyJackAubrey

I have been seeking sobriety through various programs, but lately using AVRT. I have tried AVRT off and on for about 5 years. The problem is that when my craving for my addiction is through the roof (aka the voice of the beast) my intellect want the pleasure as much as the beast does. In other words, I let the beast convince me to indulge... the big plan does not hold up because I hear the AV loud and clear, recognize it, and agree with it! afterwards of course, I regret it, make another Big Plan, but I know myself well enough that the craving / obsession will come back, and I (and the Beast) will want to do it. I have had over a year sober with AVRT but lately can get more than a few weeks.

Any advice?

MythOfSisyphus

Welcome to SR, LuckyJackAubrey! I'm not sure how to be helpful. AVRT has worked 100% for me, sober for 17 months so far. It seems to me if that if your intellect agrees with your AV that you haven't made a Big Plan at all. You really have to want to quit and believe that it's the right thing to do for a BP to even be formulated.

I do know that there are more "advanced" additional materials you can get for AVRT. There's even one-on-one sessions with the founder.

Maybe someone else can be more helpful. Glad to have you at SR.

Nonsensical

If your plan to stay sober isn't working, it might be time to make changes to the plan.

Best of Luck on Your Journey.

totfit

The first mistake I would think you are making and how I deal with things is miss-identifying feelings, anxieties and/or emotions that we all experience with a "craving". If I tell myself this "feeling" I am having is a "craving", then I am losing ground already. Fact is that if we are fully detoxed and have been clean/sober for a while none of our feelings are cravings. We just merely link our momentary discomfort with craving. We should stress "momentary" also, because this feeling will change and there are either thoughts or actions (doing something, exercise, etc.) that can make this go away quicker. I don't fight "cravings", because I don't have "cravings". I have thoughts, feelings, and emotions that everyone has that I handle without alcohol and/or other drugs. This is the way I pattern my thoughts to avoid having to deal with "cravings".

freshstart57

Does your rational mind really think that drinking is a good idea? You know, cost/benefit analysis, cause and effect, future considerations, that sorta stuff? If your rational mind does believe this, then you need to get through that roadblock, go over any and all rational justifications for ever taking another drink. Get through that in order to convince yourself that there is NO rational reason for taking that drink. There is no situation that could ever possibly happen that would present a rational reason for taking a drink. This is point #1.

Once you have done that, the next step is to understand that your thoughts about drinking again, since they cannot come from your rational mind (see point #1), must come from your wonky pleasure or survival drive. If it's wonky, I no longer believe what it tells me. Sorta like that check engine light that comes from a burnt 02 sensor.

I like what totfit says too, that these 'cravings' are really nothing more than thoughts, which come and go aaaaaaaall by they-selfs. When they go, you remain. Sober.

doggonecarl

Your Big Plan has a drinking clause. Remove it.

miyako

Here's a couple ideas:

1) Take a look at your self-empowerment. Do you really believe in your ability to stay sober? If not, what can you do to bolster that belief in yourself?

I knew in general about the AVRT ideas for years, and I liked them. But knowing/liking and DOING were different things. Something had to click inside me about my ABILITY to stop drinking before I was able to actually stop for good.

2) I realize this may sound heretical to many, but maybe your Big Plan should be smaller? I really can't stomach the idea of being sober for the rest of my entire life. Maybe I really WILL be sober for the rest of my entire life after all, but I don't know that yet. I made a commitment to be sober for as many years as I was a drunk. That was a big enough chunk to me and I can handle that without feeling that doom-and-gloom NEVER FOREVER pit-of-the-stomach bum out. That makes it possible for me to make that commitment to not drink NOW -- not today or this week or this month or this year.

Also, it does seem to me that you are NOT "intellectually" choosing drinking. If that is so, then why are you here asking for help? You are confusing your urges for intelligent choices.

When my Beast voice comes, I tell it no ALOUD. I'm sure the weeknight commuters find it funny but dammit, I am not going to let It have the first glass of wine that turns into the entire big bottle or let It turn right into the liquor store driveway instead of left to home. When It comes, FIGHT IT. Go punch a punching bag if sound doesn't work.

LuckyJackAubrey

thanks for everyone's replies and encouragement. The problem is enforcing the big plan. When the beast suggests using, it reminds me that my addiction has given me more intense pleasure than anything else in life. I recognize the AV, I remember my Big Plan, but my BP can't offer that same Extreme Pleasure that the beast offers. Yes, I know the beast is wrong, I know the BP is the life I want, but those old lies like "do it one more time, have a blast, then quit" get me in the end.

How do I stop wanting what the AV offers? Until I do I keep white knucking and slipping.

Nonsensical

1. Remember that it's a package deal. You get the pleasure for a few hours and eventually you lose everything else forever.

2. Read the literature. It goes from being fun to can't have fun without it to can't feel normal without it to can't stop being miserable without it to misery. It is a runaway locomotive, get off it while you can.

3. Make a list of the top 5 things that give you pleasure. Put 'using' at the top of the list. Then, cross it off and do the other 4.

Best of Luck!

shockozulu

What helped you treat your urges during the time you had a year? List those in one column. What didn't help? List those in a second column. This was helpful to me when I relapsed.

Perhaps working tools from another program to treat your urges? The tools from SMART or SOS for example on top of AVRT.

I found sometimes simple things like playing with my dog by having him chance the reflection off my cellphone kept me both busy when I had urges as well as keeping my mind off of self. Now it's my way of exercising Zero and enjoying his company.

ToddE1

Hi Lucky & all,

It's a hard cycle to break. No doubt on that. I was off and on that hamster wheel long enough myself, so I feel for you bud. A year in your back pocket, is a pretty nice thing to have though. That means you already know you can do it. You already have a history of success. I know it doesn't feel like that when your back on the roller coaster, but it just takes one good run to get off and not have to look back.

Lucky, if you have made a made a big plan (or two or three) and it didn't work, well then maybe it's time to look at something else. Maybe it's not and your should just re-double your effort there. I don't have the answer for you. That you will find that inside yourself. I'm just saying if moving on and trying something different, seems right to you, then it probably is. There is no magic formula that universally works for everyone. You can tailor your recovery anyway you want. If that means doing step 5 and/or AVRT and/or an ABC and/or whatever, then great. Have at it. If you haven't found the thing or things that make sense and works for you yet, then keep looking. Give something a fair shake, but it's good to try new things. Take what works and leave the rest or whatever that saying is, the idea is a good one.

Best to you Lucky. It will get better when you can pull back out and start building some mental health back in. Not drinking is important, but getting on track mental health-wise is usually necessary for the long term.

Take care,
Todd

johnthemull

3. Make a list of the top 5 things that give you pleasure. Put 'using' at the top of the list. Then, cross it off and do the other 4.


I have to say I havent heard this one before and it really is genius.
It is so true that the greatest wisdom can be found in great simplicity.

Thanks for this one, I will keep it close to my heart.

LBrain

After reading this it took back to my morning. I had an 'out' for needing nicotine. I bought the stupid gum. But when I got angry and anxious I went to the store to pick up my tobacco fix. And now my stupid thinking tells me I already paid for it so I'm gonna use it. Which then reminds me that in December I gave away $40 cases of beer. Hundreds of dollars in wine... Yet I'm still thinking of the couple bucks I spent on a tin of tobacco. Thanks for that insight.

As far as having a 'big plan' I didn't know I needed one. I thought that just not drinking was good enough. Over the past couple weeks I thought about a cold beer. But just put it out of my head. Isn't that enough? I can go into bars if I choose. One place I like (I was never a regular there for drinking) to stop for lunch. I see all the familiar faces with money and beers lined up at noon. I can sit beside them and have a conversation and drink my coke. At Christmas I was at a couple parties and didn't drink at all, nor did I have the desire to drink. This was before I was shipped off to rehab. I had a slap in the face that told me to stop drinking. That's all it took for me. But I still concern myself with the idea that if I decide to start drinking again it will bring back to exactly where I was - so I am committed to this. Isn't that enough? I still go to AA meetings, but losing interest very fast. I like the concepts discussed in AVRT - I get it. There are other life skills I need to work on. I am doing that as well.
I was told it is a bad idea to give up alcohol and tobacco at the same time, a great excuse to keep putting that **** in my mouth every day. But now I know I need to stop that too. It's where I'm at today.
Thanks for all the wisdom posted in this area.

Altoids

I'm new to AVRT after being a chronic relapser and victim of my disease. I love how clean and simple AVRT sounds. I've done the crash course online and still need to get the book. These type of threads have really helped me understand my thinking and how come my traditional recovery methods haven't been keeping me going for very long. So thankful I found AVRT.

eaglesa1a

I was sober for six years before my relapse.It is now back . I'm new to this site
so I don't know what AVRT is. can someone please explain.

Altoids

You can google rational recovery. I'm not sure I can explain it well enough.

freshstart57

Eagles1A, there is a sticky, a post pinned to the top of the thread title page, that talks about AVRT. There are lots more too, like this one. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-5-a.html.

There is a lot of support here for you, so keep posting.