My experience as an atheist in AA
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My experience as an atheist in AA
So, a decade in I can maybe talk a little about my experience in AA and in recovery more generally. I'm moved to type something and it has become HUGE so - apologies for that!
26th June 2003 I got sober in AA and I've been sober ever since. As many with a few years in the fellowship can tell you, the benefits of membership are much further ranging than just being dry. Much, much further ranging! I consider myself very lucky to be alive in the era of the AA recovery paradigm. I experienced a profound change of outlook - what is described in AA as a "spiritual experience", and in psychology more generally as a "transformative experience". I had this as a result of doing what others had done before me, and doing things which were uncomfortable and counter-intuitive for me. I consider myself hugely blessed that I suffered agonies in drink, and that suffering made me - as they say - "teachable". Extreme suffering was one of the crucial ingredients for that transformative experience - the other being the programme and fellowship of AA. I now come to see that not every alkie is lucky enough to suffer enough so that they become willing to do what ever it takes, rather than whatever they feel like doing. And I found recently - in a writer called Nicolosi - the phrase which best describes this - he writes that tranformative experiences [transformation] " ... cannot be gained through ordinary reason, or by a mere effort of the will." This reflects my experience. Recovery is a whole-person process, and rationality, or emotionalism or even religiosity is only a single factor.
I thought I would summarise my exeprience of the 12 steps, as a secularist. I should say, for the sake of clarity, that this isn't a critique. I'm a single minded fan of 12 step recovery. I'm of the belief that yes, it is suitable or everyone and yes, it can work for any alkie. It's a meta-solution. And while I was the sort of person that deluded himself that I understood everything and therefore would only do things which I agreed with and believed, I am eternally grateful for the fact that my alcoholic suffering disavowed me of that delusion and made me do things I would have considered to be beneath me. So I'm not writing about what I "decided" to do. I'm writing about how I followed instructions, and what the effects of that was for me.
Step One - powerless over alcohol and life unmanageable. This is the one that I hadn't done till I'd done it. It's the step that makes no sense until I had reached my own personal bottom. I hope it was my last. Incidentally, this is the step on which Jack Trimpey based his entire philosophy. As I wrote above, we live in the AA paradigm - pretty much everything else is derivative.
Step two came to believe that a power greater than myself could restor me to sanity. Well, I sure as hell couldn't do it myself. So I was left with a choice - die, or do it someone else's way. Listening to people in AA showed me that it could be done. So I came to believe that there was a way to do it, and I didn't know what it was. See? Teachable! (Again, for the AVRTers - erm, no, you didn't. Jack Trimpey told you how)
Step 3 - handed my will and my life over to the power of God as I understood Him. One of my favourite steps. I started enthusiastically handing my will and my life over. To what, I didn't care. Doorknob? That'll do. Group of Drunks? Fantastic. God as I didn't understand or even believe? Wonderful. I did my bit. I handed it over. I "Let Go and Let God". I practiced. With this step over time I learned the sheer joy of practicing things I don't understand and seeing where they took me. Life opened up. In later years I found people like Marcus Aurelius, and Viktor Frankl were waiting for me once i had become more skilled in letting go of the things I couldn't control and shouldn't be getting worked up about.
Step 4 - Fearless moral inventory. First pass through this I used the BB way, and sought out where I was selfish, self-seeking, inconsiderate and afraid, examined resentments, fears, sex conduct. I've since worked other fourth steps (and ten steps) and have used different approaches, including some of the more detailed AA ones, religious approaches like the 7 deadlies, and more contemporary approaches. All have helped me to become more self reflective without being self -obssessed. Self-centredness! That's the root, so they tell me! Well, it certainly explained my life back to me! So learing to be honest about myself, without judgement, self-pity etc etc etc was a liberating experience.
Step 5 - Admitted to God, ourselves and another human being... having done this step - with a sponsor and with my wife - I got down on my knees and told God all about it. As an atheist? Why? Because (Pascalls Wager here!) if he exists then I've done the step, and if he doesn't, then I've done the step and I'm not so far up myself anymore to think it's so important that I don't "compromise my beliefs". I've since worked step fives with sponsors, spritual advisors and sponsees. Rilke says "Staying is nowhere", so I sometimes give my best efforts to moving forward. STep five helped me to clean up the internal processes in me which screwed me up psychologically, morally/spiritually and emotionally, and always led back to a drink. (incidntally again, there is a sentence using these words - is REBT AA paradigm derivative)
Step 6 - were entirely ready to have God remove.... patterns of behaviour I had before always led me into what can broadly be described as "chaos" and where drink became my only option. So I tried to make sure that I was willing to stop acting like that, and find alternative ways of living that could protect my sobriety. That's all. I tried to be "entirely ready" (ALbert Ellis? you listening? Hmm?
)
Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove my character defects. this was the one that most challenged my beliefs (though by the time I got here, I carried my beliefs a lot more casually and loosely). But I had experienced enough by this time that I was able, when confornted with a choice between getting hard headed and doing things differently, I pretty much always chose "do things differently". So I bowed my head and tried to ask the universe as humbly as I could. Damn me I've still got them all
Step 8 - Made a list of all those people I had harmed and became willing to make amends. Funnily enough, when I was first around AA and before I had done any steps really I had an urge to run off and make amends to all my pretty ex-girlfiends. The ugly, bad tempered ones, meh, not so much. I think this might have been "performance". Thankfully I got my chance again, and did what I could. Again, this was a part of the reconstruction of a human being, and I continued to get release from my chaotic past.
Step 9 - Made direct amends.... see above. I still have amends to make, and I have amends I can never make because the person is dead. I have essentially done my best up till now. It may be the case that my wife and children are getting amends that belong to others but, hell, the universe will understand. MAking amends - taking responsibility for the wrongs I did others while acting out as a self-centred alcoholic - has been a necessary bridge between that place and this. Mine's is a bit rickety!
Step 10 - continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. The standards that AA helps me set for myself are high. It's hard work and demanding. For this alcoholic, this is a Good Thing. I need to make demands of myself, otherwise I back slide all too easily. During a decade, this is what I see. Forwadr and back. Wonderful.
Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. Worth putting down in full. I got teachable. I intend to stay that way. I try to cultivate an open mind. The world is wonderful, time is short and I'm not afraid. That'll do.
Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, especially alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. Yes, from this place I look back and I'm a different man, and the man I am now could not have imagined what would happen as a result of recovering from alcoholism in AA. I've used the word "paradigm" quite a lot, and it's funny how applicable it is on a personal level. A paradigm is a conceptual framework which answers all the questions about a subject at a specific period of time. It will exist until a better paradigm comes along. Most famous example would be Copernican - Newtonian - Einsteinian. Everyone is "stuck" inside their own paradigm - it takes a profound change to bring about the next phase, usually of great insight or genius. On a personal level, when I was stuck in my "alcoholism" paradigm, I couldn't imagine another way of being, one which included not just "not drinking" but a fundamental change in how I viewed myself and my life. And yet that's what happened to me with the help of both my alcoholism and AA. I changed from living in my own personal alcoholism paradigm, to living in a different, recovering paradigm. Nowadays I better understand that I can carry this message only to alcoholics who want to get well the way I did, not every alkie. And I'm better off - like so many of my AA peers, being willing to help when called upon, without offering help that is not needed or wanted. And so I have largely found peace.
26th June 2003 I got sober in AA and I've been sober ever since. As many with a few years in the fellowship can tell you, the benefits of membership are much further ranging than just being dry. Much, much further ranging! I consider myself very lucky to be alive in the era of the AA recovery paradigm. I experienced a profound change of outlook - what is described in AA as a "spiritual experience", and in psychology more generally as a "transformative experience". I had this as a result of doing what others had done before me, and doing things which were uncomfortable and counter-intuitive for me. I consider myself hugely blessed that I suffered agonies in drink, and that suffering made me - as they say - "teachable". Extreme suffering was one of the crucial ingredients for that transformative experience - the other being the programme and fellowship of AA. I now come to see that not every alkie is lucky enough to suffer enough so that they become willing to do what ever it takes, rather than whatever they feel like doing. And I found recently - in a writer called Nicolosi - the phrase which best describes this - he writes that tranformative experiences [transformation] " ... cannot be gained through ordinary reason, or by a mere effort of the will." This reflects my experience. Recovery is a whole-person process, and rationality, or emotionalism or even religiosity is only a single factor.
I thought I would summarise my exeprience of the 12 steps, as a secularist. I should say, for the sake of clarity, that this isn't a critique. I'm a single minded fan of 12 step recovery. I'm of the belief that yes, it is suitable or everyone and yes, it can work for any alkie. It's a meta-solution. And while I was the sort of person that deluded himself that I understood everything and therefore would only do things which I agreed with and believed, I am eternally grateful for the fact that my alcoholic suffering disavowed me of that delusion and made me do things I would have considered to be beneath me. So I'm not writing about what I "decided" to do. I'm writing about how I followed instructions, and what the effects of that was for me.
Step One - powerless over alcohol and life unmanageable. This is the one that I hadn't done till I'd done it. It's the step that makes no sense until I had reached my own personal bottom. I hope it was my last. Incidentally, this is the step on which Jack Trimpey based his entire philosophy. As I wrote above, we live in the AA paradigm - pretty much everything else is derivative.
Step two came to believe that a power greater than myself could restor me to sanity. Well, I sure as hell couldn't do it myself. So I was left with a choice - die, or do it someone else's way. Listening to people in AA showed me that it could be done. So I came to believe that there was a way to do it, and I didn't know what it was. See? Teachable! (Again, for the AVRTers - erm, no, you didn't. Jack Trimpey told you how)
Step 3 - handed my will and my life over to the power of God as I understood Him. One of my favourite steps. I started enthusiastically handing my will and my life over. To what, I didn't care. Doorknob? That'll do. Group of Drunks? Fantastic. God as I didn't understand or even believe? Wonderful. I did my bit. I handed it over. I "Let Go and Let God". I practiced. With this step over time I learned the sheer joy of practicing things I don't understand and seeing where they took me. Life opened up. In later years I found people like Marcus Aurelius, and Viktor Frankl were waiting for me once i had become more skilled in letting go of the things I couldn't control and shouldn't be getting worked up about.
Step 4 - Fearless moral inventory. First pass through this I used the BB way, and sought out where I was selfish, self-seeking, inconsiderate and afraid, examined resentments, fears, sex conduct. I've since worked other fourth steps (and ten steps) and have used different approaches, including some of the more detailed AA ones, religious approaches like the 7 deadlies, and more contemporary approaches. All have helped me to become more self reflective without being self -obssessed. Self-centredness! That's the root, so they tell me! Well, it certainly explained my life back to me! So learing to be honest about myself, without judgement, self-pity etc etc etc was a liberating experience.
Step 5 - Admitted to God, ourselves and another human being... having done this step - with a sponsor and with my wife - I got down on my knees and told God all about it. As an atheist? Why? Because (Pascalls Wager here!) if he exists then I've done the step, and if he doesn't, then I've done the step and I'm not so far up myself anymore to think it's so important that I don't "compromise my beliefs". I've since worked step fives with sponsors, spritual advisors and sponsees. Rilke says "Staying is nowhere", so I sometimes give my best efforts to moving forward. STep five helped me to clean up the internal processes in me which screwed me up psychologically, morally/spiritually and emotionally, and always led back to a drink. (incidntally again, there is a sentence using these words - is REBT AA paradigm derivative)
Step 6 - were entirely ready to have God remove.... patterns of behaviour I had before always led me into what can broadly be described as "chaos" and where drink became my only option. So I tried to make sure that I was willing to stop acting like that, and find alternative ways of living that could protect my sobriety. That's all. I tried to be "entirely ready" (ALbert Ellis? you listening? Hmm?
)Step 7 - Humbly asked God to remove my character defects. this was the one that most challenged my beliefs (though by the time I got here, I carried my beliefs a lot more casually and loosely). But I had experienced enough by this time that I was able, when confornted with a choice between getting hard headed and doing things differently, I pretty much always chose "do things differently". So I bowed my head and tried to ask the universe as humbly as I could. Damn me I've still got them all
Step 8 - Made a list of all those people I had harmed and became willing to make amends. Funnily enough, when I was first around AA and before I had done any steps really I had an urge to run off and make amends to all my pretty ex-girlfiends. The ugly, bad tempered ones, meh, not so much. I think this might have been "performance". Thankfully I got my chance again, and did what I could. Again, this was a part of the reconstruction of a human being, and I continued to get release from my chaotic past.
Step 9 - Made direct amends.... see above. I still have amends to make, and I have amends I can never make because the person is dead. I have essentially done my best up till now. It may be the case that my wife and children are getting amends that belong to others but, hell, the universe will understand. MAking amends - taking responsibility for the wrongs I did others while acting out as a self-centred alcoholic - has been a necessary bridge between that place and this. Mine's is a bit rickety!
Step 10 - continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. The standards that AA helps me set for myself are high. It's hard work and demanding. For this alcoholic, this is a Good Thing. I need to make demands of myself, otherwise I back slide all too easily. During a decade, this is what I see. Forwadr and back. Wonderful.
Step 11 - Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of his will for us and the power to carry that out. Worth putting down in full. I got teachable. I intend to stay that way. I try to cultivate an open mind. The world is wonderful, time is short and I'm not afraid. That'll do.
Step 12 - Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to others, especially alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs. Yes, from this place I look back and I'm a different man, and the man I am now could not have imagined what would happen as a result of recovering from alcoholism in AA. I've used the word "paradigm" quite a lot, and it's funny how applicable it is on a personal level. A paradigm is a conceptual framework which answers all the questions about a subject at a specific period of time. It will exist until a better paradigm comes along. Most famous example would be Copernican - Newtonian - Einsteinian. Everyone is "stuck" inside their own paradigm - it takes a profound change to bring about the next phase, usually of great insight or genius. On a personal level, when I was stuck in my "alcoholism" paradigm, I couldn't imagine another way of being, one which included not just "not drinking" but a fundamental change in how I viewed myself and my life. And yet that's what happened to me with the help of both my alcoholism and AA. I changed from living in my own personal alcoholism paradigm, to living in a different, recovering paradigm. Nowadays I better understand that I can carry this message only to alcoholics who want to get well the way I did, not every alkie. And I'm better off - like so many of my AA peers, being willing to help when called upon, without offering help that is not needed or wanted. And so I have largely found peace.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 1
Thanks for your post. I'm a newcomer to this chat room and one of the main things I want and need to hear is how to keep sober in AA without a god, and you explained very nicely how one alcoholic is doing just that.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Virginia
Posts: 86
Thank you for breaking it down. I am new to this site and still trying to figure out how to apply AVRT and still have the support and fellowship of AA as an Agnostic. You offer your own roadmap and it will be helpful to me to refer to it. Thanks!
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
PaulMH, I will respectfully disagree with your main thesis, that we all of us are living within the AA paradigm and that other sobriety methods are derivative. I most definitely am not within this paradigm and SMART, SOS, LifeRing and AVRT are not consistent with AA.
I understand that you are a self-described 'single-minded fan of 12 step recovery', and while I have no interest in changing that, this position of yours has given you a remarkable flexibility in your understanding.
Not powerless over alcohol. That one is a non starter. I quit drinking through my own efforts. I decided to quit and did it. No power greater than myself was required. Trimpey, if you learn a little more about RR, will be the first to tell you that he has done nothing more than collect information from others who have quit drinking 'on their own' without these steps. He is no higher power and I do not accept him as such. I do not turn it over to him, I do not pray and ask him for guidance. That is absurd.
I wish you well with your continued sobriety, but these sorts of statements are false and misleading.
I understand that you are a self-described 'single-minded fan of 12 step recovery', and while I have no interest in changing that, this position of yours has given you a remarkable flexibility in your understanding.
Not powerless over alcohol. That one is a non starter. I quit drinking through my own efforts. I decided to quit and did it. No power greater than myself was required. Trimpey, if you learn a little more about RR, will be the first to tell you that he has done nothing more than collect information from others who have quit drinking 'on their own' without these steps. He is no higher power and I do not accept him as such. I do not turn it over to him, I do not pray and ask him for guidance. That is absurd.
I wish you well with your continued sobriety, but these sorts of statements are false and misleading.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 86
posting late here... Pascall's Wager? Really... Ol well... i suppose it's not that important about "what" the higher power is and I currently call my higher power AA, since it has people that have recovered and it's purpose is to help themselves and others in crisis. No matter what deity they believe in.... AA is definitely larger than the sum of its parts. To me that qualifies strongly as a higher power. I agree with the OP, that I was certainly not doing myself any favors and needed a group of people that were working on themselves to be better people and help those that need and ask for it and yes willing to work it. That's why I am writing this...
I think that why an Atheist, such as myself, looks for other Atheists in recovery, is the same reason a recovering alcoholic/addict (same thing) needs another recovering alcoholic. It's all about reciprocating hope, trials and humor of discomfort on a level that is somewhat egalitarian and yes without God. To me the issues are more nuanced, than glaring. If I am not tolerant of others than how am I going to be tolerant of myself and reach for the objectivity that is absolutely essential in recovery and for a life that is reasonably fulfilling? I am perfectly understanding of anyone who worships, whatever it is that they might worship within civilized reason, ie anything not malevolent. But it would be extremely benificial if I talk these things out with someone that wholly understands my position. It's not that I go around professing the absence of God, I just live a life where God does not matter.
Anyway, I am yes "grateful" for the sobriety I have today and that I have an opportunity to share my experience. One last thing. The Lord's Prayer. While the main player in it is not so much my concern, the prayer brings unity and comfort through its words and cadence. I find it very moving.
I think that why an Atheist, such as myself, looks for other Atheists in recovery, is the same reason a recovering alcoholic/addict (same thing) needs another recovering alcoholic. It's all about reciprocating hope, trials and humor of discomfort on a level that is somewhat egalitarian and yes without God. To me the issues are more nuanced, than glaring. If I am not tolerant of others than how am I going to be tolerant of myself and reach for the objectivity that is absolutely essential in recovery and for a life that is reasonably fulfilling? I am perfectly understanding of anyone who worships, whatever it is that they might worship within civilized reason, ie anything not malevolent. But it would be extremely benificial if I talk these things out with someone that wholly understands my position. It's not that I go around professing the absence of God, I just live a life where God does not matter.
Anyway, I am yes "grateful" for the sobriety I have today and that I have an opportunity to share my experience. One last thing. The Lord's Prayer. While the main player in it is not so much my concern, the prayer brings unity and comfort through its words and cadence. I find it very moving.
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