Pete55

In the days when AA was new, there weren't enough sponsors to go around, so they used a method which was quick and effective and straight out of the Big Book.

The sessions can be found here
Home

Session 1, Step 1
Session 2, Steps 2,3,4
Session 3, Steps 5,6,7,8,9
Session 4, Steps 10,11,12


The problem I am having is prying out defects of character when working with another.
I feel as if I have to be some sort of qualified psychologist.
Although I have heard and read and even my sponsor did a good job with my 4th step, I go blank when trying to work with another. We usually agree to go find someone experienced, do the 4 and 5th then continue on with the rest of the sessions.

So in session 2 and the beginning of session 3, Paul F describes how to do a 4th and 5th.

We use a list for the defects of Character in 1 column and a harms List next to it. That way we have completed our defects and who was harmed.
This harms list is the list that will be used later on for our amends.

Below are the questions or some of the defects. and this is where I need some help, if anyone can offer an example or your own experience with another on any of the defects on this list would be much appreciated.

UncleMeat69

I have had good success with a similar approach that I simplify by
using a motion picture analogy:

I pose this question to the prospect: "If I ask you to go to a movie and write the dialogue while you watch the film, you would admit that would be an impossible task, right ?" Obviously, he will agree.

Then I explain how the sub-conscious part of the brain communicates to the conscious part of the brain. Data from the sub-conscious is transmitted via pictures & symbols. Data from the conscious is transmitted through words and numbers. Lets then assume that the sub-conscious is the movie and the conscious is the pen and paper trying to record the movie. How can I get all of the movie down on paper ? The only way is thru the use of KEY Words. That is why Bill W. used the example on Page 65 of the BB. He uses "key words."

In my sub-conscious movie I will be taken back in my life experiences (they are all there, BTW) to my painful memories if I open myself up and allow them to flow. This is the hard part of Step 4, because it stirs up the bad times I tried to stuff down when I drank. It will travel fast and jump all around, so to keep up I use Bill's example. ie.

6yrs. old - First grade teacher - Sister Theresa - put dunce cap on me and sat me in front of 50 classmates who laughed at me. (This is data - do not get into analyzing during this part of the exercise - now go to the next memory)

3 yrs. old - Mom spanks me in front of my friends and I look like a fool.(Then move on), etc.

I tell my prospect that these events are recorded on blank sheets of paper and in no particular order or chronology. I also advise they are not to use more than 4 sheets of paper (front & back is OK). Further, they should get most of the important stuff down in 30 to 45 minutes. When finished, put away the papers and come back for more instructions in one week. If something pops up in a dream or any time of the day, jot it down and add it to the list that day.

Once your prospect has his "Data List" then you can proceed to put them in the Columns as shown on Page 65. Do columns 1 & 2 first, then do column 3, then 4, then 5.

Fears will be manifested along with resentments.

I stress that the 4 pages are about people, institutions and principles that have hurt "you" - not about those you have hurt. We will get to that later (when doing the columns)

So it is a 2 stage process.

1st. Stage-record the data -1st. week

2nd. Stage-plug data into model on Page 65 and follow BB directions on how to do the columns. 2nd. week.

After he finishes he is to bring all papers to his sponsor and do his 5th. Step. The sponsor takes the papers and goes down the list, line by line, and has the prospect explain each incident. Then the sponsor interacts via questioning.

Hope this is helpful. If you have questions please feel free to DM me.

Pete55

Thanks Uncle, I have heard of that method in the rooms also.

What we have done here is use the sessions guided by the speaker for the sake of repetition so the method is least diluted as possible.

If you have listened to session 2, near the end at 52.00 minutes, after the 3rd step prayer, ( he is referring to the BB ), he goes straight to it at page 63, last paragraph
OK, From that point on, at 55.00 minutes, he does explain why we don't inventory our assets. This made sense to me when I first heard it, my assets don't block me from God of my understanding, my defects do.

At 1hr 2mins in session 2, he starts to show how to do the columns, and says the example is slightly different than what is on page 65.
But all the items discussed on page 64 are listed. These are the items I've listed already.
This is the Dr Bob method of doing the inventory which I found to be a lot simpler, before the BB was written.

Either way, as I posted earlier, I draw a blank when trying to pry out defects.
Also, what causes some controversy is what it says about step 5 in the
12 x 12 blue book on page 61, middle paragraph, "Perhaps" up to, "bet".


Therefore I don't have to share everything with my "sponsor", do I ?
And I really don't want to know exact details about stuff my sponsee did either.

What am I "missing" here or don't get ?

UncleMeat69

First, I would rule out referencing anything from the 12 X 12 if it is the newcomers first trip thru the steps. That would be like taking a middle school student and putting him into college classes before he finishes HS. The BB is the "basic text."

Even Bill Wilson opposed using the 12 X 12 that way in a letter of
October 5, 1953 he says:

"At first I was dubious whether anyone would care for it, save oldtimers who had begun to run into life's lumps in other areas than alcohol."

That explanation would be relevent to not sharing everything, in the future, because the sponsee is dealing with a specific life problem and that is where the focus would be. Example: Mr. Sponsor, I seek your guidance on my co-dependency issues as they relate to my marriage. I don't want to detail my intimate sex issues, but want guidance on how to get along better with my wife.

The primary goal of the initial step process is to have the sponsee experience "a psychic change sufficient to recover from alcoholism." A great question I use that evinces a response with well over 65% of my subjects,
is to ask at the very end of the 5th. Step:

"OK. now I need to know what deep dark secret you are still not telling me. It is crucial that you bring it out now, or you will probably not recover from alcoholism." That usually strikes at the heart of the defect that blocks him off from the "sunlight of the spirit."

Have you ever read anybooks by Robert A. Johnson. They provided me with some tremendous insights into Jungian treatment paradigms, which is the core treatment model used by Bill W. on Page 65. The 3 books I liked were:

He

She &

We.

They are presented in simple layman's terms and a good read. They helped me in reaching into people's heads by allaying their fears and reassuring them I am there to help.

You appear to be on a good track. Keep trying, you will find your catalyst.

Pete55

Ok, that made some sense now,

That's interesting......,

The other books I got are, Stools and Bottles and
The Little Red Book
It's those 2 books that clarified "Blind Spots" and most recently one blind spot I spotted, was Tolerance which got me to look at Humility and a hidden resentment as the "bad seed" appeared.
If I work that backwards;
hidden resentment("bad seed") -> pride full -> irritable ->
becoming in-tolerant of others, causing a harm, step 10 it,
then an amend if need be.

No, but will check it out.

Thanks

UncleMeat69

.

Glad to be of service..........