I'm hurt that my AH won't do step 4 in regards to me.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I'm hurt that my AH won't do step 4 in regards to me.
My AH is in a 6 month rehab. This is his 6th week. He blames me for EVERYTHING and filed for divorce 2 weeks ago. (Crazy to do during rehab). He told my son that he wants me to feel "deep pain" when the divorce is final because he's had deep pain for years (He's got depression, anxiety, and self-esteem issues). He's often expressed anger that I'm not moody and could wake up in a good mood, while he couldn't.
Tonight he called our older son and asked him to write 10 things that he did wrong, and then tell him (and he promised not to interupt.) He even said something about the fact that he needs to do this because obviously he isn't able to know what he did wrong.
I am very hurt that I will never get that chance. He's not going to do this with me nor our younger son (because frankly, he'd fear what we might say and he wouldn't sit still for it.). My older son is shy/quiet and won't likely confront him with much. Plus, he wants to have a relationship with him, while he's essentially said that he wants younger son and me out of his life.
I've never been allowed to address my concerns without being shouted down or interrupted. (over the years, we tried counseling and the counselors always promised that I would get to have my "fair share" of input, but even they couldn't get him to let me speak and sessions would end.)
I had kind of hoped that he would be required to include me in this AA exercise, but I guess he's somehow (lied) convinced his sponsor/etc that I'm the source of all problems. I thought that even if he said such things that they would assume that he's "in denial" and insist that he contact me anyway. But I guess he's convinced them that I'm too crazy/wrong/evil to include.
When he first went into rehab and joined AA I read the steps and I immediately concluded that he would never include me in Step 4 and the other ones that involve making amends, etc. So, I'm not surprised. I have a sibling who is a therapist and she insists that he'll be required to include me, but if there's some twist that he could evoke to avoid that, he will.
I feel so cheated.
Tonight he called our older son and asked him to write 10 things that he did wrong, and then tell him (and he promised not to interupt.) He even said something about the fact that he needs to do this because obviously he isn't able to know what he did wrong.
I am very hurt that I will never get that chance. He's not going to do this with me nor our younger son (because frankly, he'd fear what we might say and he wouldn't sit still for it.). My older son is shy/quiet and won't likely confront him with much. Plus, he wants to have a relationship with him, while he's essentially said that he wants younger son and me out of his life.
I've never been allowed to address my concerns without being shouted down or interrupted. (over the years, we tried counseling and the counselors always promised that I would get to have my "fair share" of input, but even they couldn't get him to let me speak and sessions would end.)
I had kind of hoped that he would be required to include me in this AA exercise, but I guess he's somehow (lied) convinced his sponsor/etc that I'm the source of all problems. I thought that even if he said such things that they would assume that he's "in denial" and insist that he contact me anyway. But I guess he's convinced them that I'm too crazy/wrong/evil to include.
When he first went into rehab and joined AA I read the steps and I immediately concluded that he would never include me in Step 4 and the other ones that involve making amends, etc. So, I'm not surprised. I have a sibling who is a therapist and she insists that he'll be required to include me, but if there's some twist that he could evoke to avoid that, he will.
I feel so cheated.
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I do hope you will consider checking into the Al non program.
Then you could do a 4th Step around him...
Sorry your upset...but it's his Step work and not yours.
Then you could do a 4th Step around him...
Sorry your upset...but it's his Step work and not yours.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
Then you could do a 4th step around him.
Yes, I know that it's "his 4th step" and not mine. But I thought that his sponsor or whoever would tell him that he can't just skip his spouse and other child as if we never existed or pretend that over 27 years of marriage that his many years of alcoholism never involved hurting me or doing wrong (or 21 years of our younger son's life.)
I thought that there would be some kind of influences that would stronglysuggest/insist that he's not really being honest if he just skips over us...when we've been the biggest targets of his alcoholic behavior.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: South Boston
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Often times the people we've hurt the most are the hardest ones to ask for forgivenes from. It requires us to reach down very deeply into ourselves and admit to the horrible things we did and horrible pain we caused. Maybe someday he'll realize it, maybe not. But point is he is incapable of realizing it or admitting to it right now.
His Sponsor is probably letting him take the lead. What's the point of having him apologize to you if he's incapable of seeing what he's done to you? He obviously hasn't let go on his anger toward you and it's likely that maybe his anger toward you is actually anger toward himself point is he can't see it yet. He isn't ready to apologize to you.
It sounds like you don't have anything to be forgiven for.
You can't force him to be sorry for what he's done. Nor can his sponsor. An empty sorry doesn't mean anything. I am very very very sorry for your pain, truly but I think what Carol is trying to suggest is this is about HIM not about you. YOU can't control his behavior in recovery anymore then you could control his behavior when he was drinking. He is his own person, who make his own choices.I think the hardest part of recovery for us loved ones is realize that it wasn't ONLY drugs and alcohol that made the person who they were... part of it was just THEM as a person and that doesn't change with recovery.
His Sponsor is probably letting him take the lead. What's the point of having him apologize to you if he's incapable of seeing what he's done to you? He obviously hasn't let go on his anger toward you and it's likely that maybe his anger toward you is actually anger toward himself point is he can't see it yet. He isn't ready to apologize to you.
It sounds like you don't have anything to be forgiven for.
You can't force him to be sorry for what he's done. Nor can his sponsor. An empty sorry doesn't mean anything. I am very very very sorry for your pain, truly but I think what Carol is trying to suggest is this is about HIM not about you. YOU can't control his behavior in recovery anymore then you could control his behavior when he was drinking. He is his own person, who make his own choices.I think the hardest part of recovery for us loved ones is realize that it wasn't ONLY drugs and alcohol that made the person who they were... part of it was just THEM as a person and that doesn't change with recovery.
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BHW,
Carol is right in pointing out that it is his step work, and you are not his sponsor. That said, asking someone else to tell you the ways in which you have harmed them and promising not to interrupt is not a fourth step: "made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
More importantly, one of the lessons I have learned from AA is that when I am upset about something I should look at my part in the situation. Our expectations of others is one aspect that many of us find we need to work on in our program. You may be expectig more from him at 6 weeks than he is able to give - I know that at 6 weeks I felt good but my thinking certainly wasn't all that great at that point.
Keep going to alanon, more will be revealed.
Edd
Carol is right in pointing out that it is his step work, and you are not his sponsor. That said, asking someone else to tell you the ways in which you have harmed them and promising not to interrupt is not a fourth step: "made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
More importantly, one of the lessons I have learned from AA is that when I am upset about something I should look at my part in the situation. Our expectations of others is one aspect that many of us find we need to work on in our program. You may be expectig more from him at 6 weeks than he is able to give - I know that at 6 weeks I felt good but my thinking certainly wasn't all that great at that point.
Keep going to alanon, more will be revealed.
Edd
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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His Sponsor is probably letting him take the lead. What's the point of having him apologize to you if he's incapable of seeing what he's done to you? He obviously hasn't let go on his anger toward you and it's likely that maybe his anger toward you is actually anger toward himself point is he can't see it yet. He isn't ready to apologize to you.
It sounds like you don't have anything to be forgiven for.
It sounds like you don't have anything to be forgiven for.
I guess I thought that sponsors are supposed to challenge the person. I guess I thought that if I were a sponsor to someone and they had a family, and they cherry-picked only one family member to address, I would be challenging the person to really think about those other family members and not just accept some unrealistic idea that he has nothing to address in regards to his wife and other son. I would think that would be a big red flag of dishonesty.
I agree that an empty apology means nothing. I'm not hoping for an apology now. Right now, his step effort is to ask each person to provide TO HIM a list of how they've been hurt because (according to him) he's unable to know who/how's he's hurt someone. So, with that logic, he "doesn't know" how he's hurt me or our other son, so I would think that he'd logically be told that he needs to ask up for our lists, too....even if he doesn't think we'd have such lists.
What do you mean by : it sounds like you don't have anything to be forgiven for????
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Often times the people we've hurt the most are the hardest ones to ask for forgivenes from. It requires us to reach down very deeply into ourselves and admit to the horrible things we did and horrible pain we caused. Maybe someday he'll realize it, maybe not. But point is he is incapable of realizing it or admitting to it right now.
I agree. But, I'm not expecting an apology now, or anytime in the near future. He's not at the apology point. He's at the searching point. He's asking for how he's hurt my son because he says that he's not capable of knowing on his own. For THAT REASON, he's also not able to know how he's hurt my other son and me.
I agree that deep-down he's ashamed of his behavior towards me and our younger child (yelling, screaming, etc) and that he doesn't want to give us the opportunity to "remind" him of those instances (he'd prefer to sweep them away).
Again, I just thought that his sponsor (or someone) would be nudging him to "get real" and be honest. Anyone with half a brain would have to know that he's in denial and not really soul-searching if he's skipping over his own spouse.
I agree. But, I'm not expecting an apology now, or anytime in the near future. He's not at the apology point. He's at the searching point. He's asking for how he's hurt my son because he says that he's not capable of knowing on his own. For THAT REASON, he's also not able to know how he's hurt my other son and me.
I agree that deep-down he's ashamed of his behavior towards me and our younger child (yelling, screaming, etc) and that he doesn't want to give us the opportunity to "remind" him of those instances (he'd prefer to sweep them away).
Again, I just thought that his sponsor (or someone) would be nudging him to "get real" and be honest. Anyone with half a brain would have to know that he's in denial and not really soul-searching if he's skipping over his own spouse.
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"...He's asking for how he's hurt my son because he says that he's not capable of knowing on his own. For THAT REASON, he's also not able to know how he's hurt my other son and me..."
This may very well be true, but it also may very well not be true. He may 'know' how he hurt your other son and you, and may just have had a blind spot where this one son is concerned......
If there's one thing I've learned in recovery it's that I don't 'know' for sure about anybody but me.........
(o:
NoelleR
This may very well be true, but it also may very well not be true. He may 'know' how he hurt your other son and you, and may just have had a blind spot where this one son is concerned......
If there's one thing I've learned in recovery it's that I don't 'know' for sure about anybody but me.........
(o:
NoelleR
~sb
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: MD
Posts: 15,960
How about going to Al Anon and getting your own sponsor and working those 12 steps? They can help you immensely when you get honest with yourself!
No sponsor I know makes anyone do anything. It's a personal journey of recovery. If step 1 isn't done honestly, the rest may have a faulty foundation and not mean much. No one can tell me who is on my 4th step list or not, it just doesn't work that way.....Your sibling has been given false information...that's why AA works better than therapy; only one alcoholic can truly understand another alcoholic (my experience).
Welcome to SR! Glad you are here!
No sponsor I know makes anyone do anything. It's a personal journey of recovery. If step 1 isn't done honestly, the rest may have a faulty foundation and not mean much. No one can tell me who is on my 4th step list or not, it just doesn't work that way.....Your sibling has been given false information...that's why AA works better than therapy; only one alcoholic can truly understand another alcoholic (my experience).
Welcome to SR! Glad you are here!
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your like me wanting to work so bad...But being an enabler will not help... My husband also suffers from depression, self esteem and dang sure insecure...the blaming is denial they cannot face the truth so they place it on us, and we stick around and let them do it, hoping something good will come out of it... I am so sorry and pray you find the answer ur looking for.
SGNJ40
SGNJ40
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Originally Posted by sugarbear1 
How about going to Al Anon and getting your own sponsor and working those 12 steps? They can help you immensely when you get honest with yourself!
No sponsor I know makes anyone do anything. It's a personal journey of recovery. If step 1 isn't done honestly, the rest may have a faulty foundation and not mean much. No one can tell me who is on my 4th step list or not, it just doesn't work that way.....Your sibling has been given false information...that's why AA works better than therapy; only one alcoholic can truly understand another alcoholic (my experience).
Welcome to SR! Glad you are here!
No sponsor I know makes anyone do anything. It's a personal journey of recovery. If step 1 isn't done honestly, the rest may have a faulty foundation and not mean much. No one can tell me who is on my 4th step list or not, it just doesn't work that way.....Your sibling has been given false information...that's why AA works better than therapy; only one alcoholic can truly understand another alcoholic (my experience).
Welcome to SR! Glad you are here!
I am in Al anon, and so is my older son. I don't know what you mean by "get honest" with myself. I'm not the one in denial; I'm not the one who is lying; I'm not the one who is an addict.
I accept that I am/was co-dependent. I have a therapist that I see every week who believes that I have accepted that fact and we know why I did/do that (oldest daughter of a very large family, used to taking care of younger siblings, started changing diapers at age 5 (the cloth ones with the big pins), etc). I grew up taking care of people and continued that in my marriage. I didn't commit a crime. I didn't lie. I am aware of the dynamic.
I'm no longer doing even one small thing for my AH. He's completely on his own. I rarely even communicate with him. I filed a counter-divorce with CAUSE - Marital Misconduct, Mental Cruelty, Alcoholism, so I feel quite empowered at the moment. Thank God that I don't live in a state where "no fault divorce" is the only option. There will be a legal record forever that he was the main cause of the breakdown of the marriage.
Only the spouse of an alcoholic can truly understand another spouse of an alcoholic (my experience).
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