tammy711

I have been doing well in my sobriety. I am so happy to have found AVRT. But, for some reason I am getting these very vivid thoughts about drinking again. They scare the heck out of me. They make me question the "and I never will".

I think I am good now (right now), but am concerned my alcohol thoughts were gone for so many weeks and now all of a sudden I get these strong pulls.

I recognize that the thoughts are The Beast, but my retaliation seems dimmed.

Anyway, good for now, but was hoping The Beast would be more tamed by now.


:-\

Obladi

Tammy, from what I've heard, the Beast is sneaky like that. Sometimes it lays still patiently waiting for an oportune time to catch you off guard.

Didn't JT say that feeling the Beast is a sign that you are actually a healthy functioning being? (I don't think I'm making that up, though I do need to read the book again.) I definitely know that if you recognize the Beast and you've made your Big Plan you are in no danger whatsoever. That jerk is going to show up from time to time, but it needn't bother you. It's just doing what Beasts do.

Glad you're good for now because now is what counts.

RobbyRobot

Hi Tammy,

Don't fight or struggle with your Beast. Don't attempt to tame your Beast. Let your Beast howl and prowl about. Its nothing to be concerned about, okay?

Eventually, your experience with AVRT will have your Beast helpless, and you'll absolutely enjoy kicking it to the curb, and simply walking on by, like you have so much more to live for, and of course you do! And so, your Beast will just be reduced to a whimper and it will crawl away... hoping for another day, lol.

MissyShelle76

To me, the Beast only roars so loudly and frequently as a last ditch effort. It knows it has no real hold on you now and it's scared.

I think of the Beast like a crazy ex (ha). You break up, leave them, no calls, no texts, no contact. The ex starts realizing: Wait, they aren't calling. WTH! So they start blowing up your phone, sending texts, showing up when you're out.

It's at that point YOU get to decide, do I answer because I know how it's going to end or do I just say, "Uhm, we broke up. Now get the HELL out?"

Some exes are just annoying, quiet for a long time then out of the blue decide "Hmm, I know if I do ABC, they'll come back" and we get to have the power and say, "Uh, not anymore, sweetie"

It's empowering as hell!

SollytheGolly

Don't try to not think about alcohol. Should the thoughts pop into your head, simply acknowledge them and say -'I'm free of all that - I don't have to drink any more. I can go out and enjoy myself without having to worry about trying to control my drinking, or wondering whether I'm going to make a fool of myself. I can take my car, and not have to rely upon friends or expensive taxi-cabs. I can wake up in the morning feel fresh and relaxed, remembering everything about the great time I had last night'.

Enjoy the rest of your life....

roxy6099

Hi guys
Sorry for my Ignorance but what does AVRT stand for?
Thanks

vinyl

This is an important statement. You are questioning the future for which none of us are in control, but one sentence later you say you are comfortable in the here and now, which you are in control. I think the answer is clear. Why struggle with a concept for which you have no control over? Just be present, right here, right now. Do not drink right now, and BOOM, you are successful in sobriety!

Celebrate this sober moment, and then the next. There is nothing to be afraid of until we begin attaching all this extra stuff, this "future", "beast" or "never". Why make your suffering more difficult than it has to be? Impermanence is science, delusional concepts like "forever" and imaginary creatures like a "beast" is not.

For me, I side with science and working hard to be present and awake. Especially when my reward is celebrating my sobriety every single moment, without the anxiety of fearing a character that does not exist or a future I have no control over. But that's just me.

Again, I know the beast and "big plan" work for some, and that is just fine if it keeps you sober. I'm simply sharing my own path and understanding.

Good luck to you!

ReadyAndAble

You OK, Vinyl?

It seems out of character for you to mock key elements of someone's recovery program as "delusional". Making a Big Plan—a plan that is all about "never" and "forever"—was one of the smartest moves I ever made. It made abstinence far easier than before, not harder. I was very uneasy just focusing on the present, and not addressing the future. I accept that things are different for you; when you start saying "Why make your suffering more difficult than it has to be," it sounds like you fail to appreciate that things might be different for others.

It's cool to share your path; I certainly don't believe you have to be using AVRT to live a happy and sober life. But please don't define me and my program. I side with science. I try very hard to be present. I use AVRT. And I have absolute control over whether I drink in the future. I don't see any contradictions there, and I'm pretty sure a lot of other folks here would agree with me.

I don't mean this to be a flame. I have gotten a lot out of your posts in the past. But these are the secular threads, and I don't think it's very helpful to disparage fundamental concepts of an approach that a lot of us are using quite successfully.

ReadyAndAble

Hi, Roxy. Good to see you here. It stands for Addictive Voice Recognition Technique.

vinyl

Readyandable, You are 100% correct, and I went to make some tea after I posted that and realized I didn't articulate myself correctly and my words were harsh. When I came back I was unable to edit it and had a feeling I was in for it. I'm really sorry guys, I intended one thought and released quite a few others and I have no excuse.

In NO WAY did I intend to mock someone's path and yes, my post suggests that very thing. My intentions were very pure and compassionate, I assure you. I think what happened is I got motivated when I saw someone who answered their own question and this one got me good! I then rambled on too far in my own thoughts.

I will say, my meaning behind delusional is not what it suggests. In my practice it has a much different meaning. I shouldn't have been so loose with this term.

Tammy, I'm sorry. Good luck in your path.

Readyandable, I do want to say, you mentioned you and many others are succeful with AVRT, and that is awesome. However if someone like Tammy is struggling with it, I see no reason why myself or anyone can not point out their own understanding of why that might be happening. You're right, this IS the secular forum, which means there will be many secular ways of approaching sobriety. Though my post was admittedly harsh, at it's core, I stand behind the thesis and my approach and would hope it could be just as respected in here as your own. Thanks, and sorry again for my apparent attack on AVRT, it was not my intention.

ReadyAndAble

Awesome, Vinyl. Thanks for that follow-up!

RobbyRobot

If someone is struggling, I don't see how that becomes an open opportunity to criticise their recovery choices, even if you have the best of intentions at heart.

I would like to respect what you share and offer, Vinyl. I can't do that if you don't speak from your own experience. I don't want your opinions on whatever somebody else is failing with, I want your shares of experience on what you are being successful with, and on what you have perhaps failed with in your past. When people share failure, it should be their own, and from their own experience. None of us are sufficient judges to any one else's choices, imo. Even when we're invited to share our opinion, care must be taken to respect the freedoms and choices of others.

I understand you previously attempted AVRT, and have since found it faulty, in your experience. I see no problem with you sharing how your efforts with AVRT failed, and doing so without criticising AVRT as a "wrong" choice for others.

I don't really know what to do with your explanation for your take on Tammy's struggles. I know I don't really agree with you, and I'm also seeing how you've stated it could happen again if you feel so inclined for whoever is struggling, as I bolded in your words.

Is it possible for you to respect AVRT even though you have since discontinued practicing it, Vinyl? In that I mean without criticising the whole of AVRT. You're free of course to criticise your own experiences with AVRT to your heart's content.

Does this make sense with you Vinyl?

vinyl

Lol, I knew you were coming to pounce on this, Robby.

Relax, I thought I was quite clear in the ownership of my mistake. You can always ignore my posts if they bother you so much. It does seem like you've had a beef with me ever since I started posting a week ago. I would consider reflecting on your own practice and how mine is affecting yours. It shouldn't be. Good luck to you.

I think Tammy is a big girl and can handle herself without you coming to her rescue every time I post in her threads. If I have commentary on AVRT, so be it. It's an open community and debate should be encouraged, as long as it is healthy. I've already said my post was not the right approach and apologized for it. Let it go, if possible.

BTW, I never at any point stated AVRT was the wrong choice for others. You have projected that and it's not true. I encourage anyone to follow what works for them, period.

RobbyRobot

I'm relaxed, Vinyl. I have no beef with you personally now, or ever. Your posts don't "bother" me. I do find them to be a bit disingenous concerning your related experiences, but no matter, that is just how they present to me.

I'm not coming to any one's rescue. We're all adults here, so no one needs that kind of attention or support, including Tammy. I'm interested in your posts because they detail how AVRT is not just unsuitable for you, you seem to also emphasise with some of your posts that AVRT is not suitable for anyone else too, and I find that intriguing.

It's not about you affecting me, you're not in "that" way. Its more how your posts in a public forum are dynamically being shared which is gaining my interest, Vinyl.

You knew I was gonna pounce?

I said "wrong" in meaning not their best choice in your eyes it seemed to me was what you were suggesting.

vinyl

Please show me where I have habitually suggested it is not right for anyone. I have never said this yet you keep repeating this. This is the first time I've stepped over the line (albeit only slightly) about AVRT, and I immediately retracted my statements because I felt I was wrong, and I apologized.

Instead of continuing to hi-jack her thread, maybe I should just start my own and explain why I shifted from AVRT into my current practice, this way I can share my own perception and answer any questions you have about my "disingenuous" process of staying sober.

I for one am completely up for a healthy debate on the matter, if you'd like to discuss further. But let's move on from this thread, it's not helping anyone.

RobbyRobot

Sure, Vinyl. I would be up for that too. A new thread is a great idea.

GerandTwine

Since this thread is tagged for "avrt, the beast" I think it would be useful to suggest readers might do an exercise on the posts above and within each post separate out the Addictive Voice from the person desiring to avoid drinking again.

GT