Substance Abuse Has Ruined My Intelligence
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Substance Abuse Has Ruined My Intelligence
Today I realized I am nothing without my intelligence. For instance, I spent three to four hours assembling an elliptical exercise machine and it literally exhausted me (and I'm 25!). My mind feels like it hasn't slept in days. But I guess I shouldn't be too surprised because that's what happens when you spend years abusing dangerous substances like alcohol, cocaine, ecstasy, marijuana, magic mushrooms, pain killers, legal highs, etc. If you do abuse any of these substances, you really should give some serious thought to, first, quiting for good, and two, educating yourself on how harmful these things really are to your brain. Believe me, I've been there: for years I thought my brain was working better then ever and I've had many great times (all (or most) forgotten by now, mind you) to prove it. However, then when I quit and tried to learn something new and intellectually demanding... (words cannot express my pain). Anyway, I hope you, whoever you are, make the right decision by staying away from these substances - they're definitely not worth the price you pay in the end.
Now, I'm here because I would like to hear your stories about how your intelligence returned after years of being hit hard by substance abuse. Some questions you might like to consider: what did you do to get it back? How was it at first and what were things like over, say, half a year to a year later? And can intelligence ever return to how it was before?
Further information about me:
I quit everything, even smoking cigarettes, for a little over two months now. My memory is terrible and so is my attention span. I read and exercise my brain everyday but there haven't been any big improvements. Also, my IQ was 128 and now it's 109. I feel like crap most of the time but I try regardless because I know that one day I'll be me again. Hopefully. One day at a time, as they say.
By the way, I'm giving myself a year to recover. After that, if things don't improve, I'm history.
Kind regards,
Derick
Now, I'm here because I would like to hear your stories about how your intelligence returned after years of being hit hard by substance abuse. Some questions you might like to consider: what did you do to get it back? How was it at first and what were things like over, say, half a year to a year later? And can intelligence ever return to how it was before?
Further information about me:
I quit everything, even smoking cigarettes, for a little over two months now. My memory is terrible and so is my attention span. I read and exercise my brain everyday but there haven't been any big improvements. Also, my IQ was 128 and now it's 109. I feel like crap most of the time but I try regardless because I know that one day I'll be me again. Hopefully. One day at a time, as they say.
By the way, I'm giving myself a year to recover. After that, if things don't improve, I'm history.
Kind regards,
Derick
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 448
Hi Derick! Welcome, sit back and make yourself comfortable.
First of all a big congratulations on quitting everything and staying quit!! That is a big feat in itself!
I think no two people are going to go through recovery at the same rate, same time, or same way. You're only 25, so young I doubt that you will have any major long term problems. Think of all the people that abused serious drugs for decades and then become addiction specialists and lifestyle coaches and speakers.
Just like Forest Gumps' Mom always said "stupid is as stupid does" (I don't actually know what that means but don't tell anybody!)
I had an almost 30 year addiction to pain pills and the last 3-4 years of that was badly abusing oxy. I felt fuzzy headed for months. In fact I felt plain sick for months. It takes awhile for your body and brain to come together again. But they will.
I don't know what the IQ numbers mean but I wouldn't worry about it. Genius IQ people can be just as stupid as anyone else. Somedays I feel really smart about a lot of things and some days I can't get the right word to come out of my mouth or hold a thought long enough to finish it.
Your ability to learn is going to be governed by your desire to learn, whether it's something new or something forgotten. I read a lot, I'm a movie buff and TV watcher (it's amazing how much you can learn from listening to others in person, on TV or from movies.) I'm also a gamer and THAT is probably the one thing that can most provoke me into defeat!
I am changing the last sentence you said (not a direct quote because I can't remember exactly what you said!) to: If I don't improve in one year I will keep trying and learning for the rest of my life!! And for you, that's a very long time!!
Take care
...Ruby...
First of all a big congratulations on quitting everything and staying quit!! That is a big feat in itself!
I think no two people are going to go through recovery at the same rate, same time, or same way. You're only 25, so young I doubt that you will have any major long term problems. Think of all the people that abused serious drugs for decades and then become addiction specialists and lifestyle coaches and speakers.
Just like Forest Gumps' Mom always said "stupid is as stupid does" (I don't actually know what that means but don't tell anybody!)
I had an almost 30 year addiction to pain pills and the last 3-4 years of that was badly abusing oxy. I felt fuzzy headed for months. In fact I felt plain sick for months. It takes awhile for your body and brain to come together again. But they will.
I don't know what the IQ numbers mean but I wouldn't worry about it. Genius IQ people can be just as stupid as anyone else. Somedays I feel really smart about a lot of things and some days I can't get the right word to come out of my mouth or hold a thought long enough to finish it.
Your ability to learn is going to be governed by your desire to learn, whether it's something new or something forgotten. I read a lot, I'm a movie buff and TV watcher (it's amazing how much you can learn from listening to others in person, on TV or from movies.) I'm also a gamer and THAT is probably the one thing that can most provoke me into defeat!
I am changing the last sentence you said (not a direct quote because I can't remember exactly what you said!) to: If I don't improve in one year I will keep trying and learning for the rest of my life!! And for you, that's a very long time!!
Take care
...Ruby...
TheMostSordidSpotOnEarth
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ParadiseOnEarth
Posts: 811
I'm a Mensan.
I experienced significant PAWS symptoms for the first year or two of my recovery.
Post Acute Withdrawl Syndrome:
PAWS « Digital Dharma
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The plan of action that has worked for me has been maintaining total abstinence while actively and consistently working a program of recovery. As a very grateful member of AA/NA/CA, this has meant going to meetings, establishing a network of healthy alcoholics and addicts in recovery, learning to live the 12 steps out of the Big Book with the help of a qualified sponsor and passing on the gifts!
Done in this way, my personal experience has been that the assets return, only better.
I've been clean for 2 years and 10 months. I wouldn't give up what I've got now - or the journey that I've taken to get here - for anything in the world.
I can reassure you, however, that using after a year wouldn't help matters one bit.
Chop wood, carry water and have faith.
I'm sending much love and lots of encouragement to you.
Keep going!
SIU
I experienced significant PAWS symptoms for the first year or two of my recovery.
Post Acute Withdrawl Syndrome:
PAWS « Digital Dharma
Post-acute-withdrawal syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The plan of action that has worked for me has been maintaining total abstinence while actively and consistently working a program of recovery. As a very grateful member of AA/NA/CA, this has meant going to meetings, establishing a network of healthy alcoholics and addicts in recovery, learning to live the 12 steps out of the Big Book with the help of a qualified sponsor and passing on the gifts!
Done in this way, my personal experience has been that the assets return, only better.
I've been clean for 2 years and 10 months. I wouldn't give up what I've got now - or the journey that I've taken to get here - for anything in the world.
I can reassure you, however, that using after a year wouldn't help matters one bit.
Chop wood, carry water and have faith.
I'm sending much love and lots of encouragement to you.
Keep going!
SIU
Member
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Great White North
Posts: 448
Originally Posted by SteppingItUp 
.
,Done in this way, my personal experience has been that the assets return, only better.
I've been clean for 2 years and 10 months. I wouldn't give up what I've got now - or the journey that I've taken to get here - for anything in the world.
SIU
,Done in this way, my personal experience has been that the assets return, only better.
I've been clean for 2 years and 10 months. I wouldn't give up what I've got now - or the journey that I've taken to get here - for anything in the world.
SIU
...Ruby...
totfit
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ft Collins, CO
Posts: 1,273
Congratulations on quitting "everything". Not sure if anyone is clean and sober otherwise. It takes time to reach equilibrium again once one quits everything, but it is extremely unlikely your IQ had decreased at all. Not sure what kind of testing you are doing, but unless it is with a trained person, self administered IQ tests are good for kicks, but not much to gauge actual IQ. I would imagine a lot of your issues are still Post Acute Withdrawal and it takes a while. Everything you had before should return unless you have actually done some physical damage.
All this being said the best thing to do is just to relax and concentrate on all of the positive things you can do now that you are clean and sober and get out and do them. Enjoy life. What is done is done, so now it is time to concentrate on what you can do hence forth.
All this being said the best thing to do is just to relax and concentrate on all of the positive things you can do now that you are clean and sober and get out and do them. Enjoy life. What is done is done, so now it is time to concentrate on what you can do hence forth.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Thank you for sharing your experiences/wisdom/etc. It really motivates me to continue doing everything I can to just keep improving and improving. All those little improvements will add up and over time I know that I too can become even more intelligent than I ever was before. That's my ultimate goal now.
It seems like there aren't any secrets to success except for hard work and dedication. The basic message I get from these replies is: don't use and your brain will naturally recover. I agree with that, of course, but I want to find ways to... (how should I say this) speed up recovery, make up for all that lost time, and become as smart as possible (leading to an increase in IQ - I hope).
I've done some research and of the many things I'd like to try one stands out and that is a nootropic called Piracetam. I also started taking fish oil and a vitamin/mineral supplement recently but I haven't noticed a difference yet. On Monday I start a rigorous exercise regimen on the eliptical which should, from what I've read, drastically change my life for the better. I'll let you know how that goes, if you want.
I sort of feel like an addict going from one substance to another but that's not what this is. This time it's all about health and actually improving my brain/life longterm.
Anymore tips/advice/experiences/etc are very welcome and highly encouraged. I enjoy reading all these posts and they help me in many ways. Please know that you're at least saving my life if not many, many others. Thank you again!
Kind regards,
Derick
It seems like there aren't any secrets to success except for hard work and dedication. The basic message I get from these replies is: don't use and your brain will naturally recover. I agree with that, of course, but I want to find ways to... (how should I say this) speed up recovery, make up for all that lost time, and become as smart as possible (leading to an increase in IQ - I hope).
I've done some research and of the many things I'd like to try one stands out and that is a nootropic called Piracetam. I also started taking fish oil and a vitamin/mineral supplement recently but I haven't noticed a difference yet. On Monday I start a rigorous exercise regimen on the eliptical which should, from what I've read, drastically change my life for the better. I'll let you know how that goes, if you want.
I sort of feel like an addict going from one substance to another but that's not what this is. This time it's all about health and actually improving my brain/life longterm.
Anymore tips/advice/experiences/etc are very welcome and highly encouraged. I enjoy reading all these posts and they help me in many ways. Please know that you're at least saving my life if not many, many others. Thank you again!
Kind regards,
Derick
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
I didn't suffer anywhere near 1 year after my big detox, personally.
Last time it took me about 1 month to get back to 99% normal. That was 5+ years ago, and it was after a 3.5 year OC bender, doing like 240mg/day (64 percs worth), followed by 8 months on a buprenorphine taper, quitting at 2mg/day. That was at 40 years old, too.
And I partied my whole life before that bender, just never got addicted to anything. I've taken EVERYTHING on your list ... but never excessively/more than a few times a year (and the shrooms and e was only back in my college days) ... except coke ... I did have a time when I was strung out on the OC where I also did blow pretty frequently, in order to stay awake.
I say ... give yourself a break man, don't stress on the future. Recovery is about learning to think ONE DAY AT A TIME. Putting one foot in front of the other, doing the next right thing, JUST FOR TODAY. Have faith that if you do this, everything is going to be okay. And trust me, IT WILL
Last time it took me about 1 month to get back to 99% normal. That was 5+ years ago, and it was after a 3.5 year OC bender, doing like 240mg/day (64 percs worth), followed by 8 months on a buprenorphine taper, quitting at 2mg/day. That was at 40 years old, too.
And I partied my whole life before that bender, just never got addicted to anything. I've taken EVERYTHING on your list ... but never excessively/more than a few times a year (and the shrooms and e was only back in my college days) ... except coke ... I did have a time when I was strung out on the OC where I also did blow pretty frequently, in order to stay awake.
I say ... give yourself a break man, don't stress on the future. Recovery is about learning to think ONE DAY AT A TIME. Putting one foot in front of the other, doing the next right thing, JUST FOR TODAY. Have faith that if you do this, everything is going to be okay. And trust me, IT WILL
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
For sure, certain substances can permanently damage brain cells. Anything that causes prolonged oxygen deprivation in the brain. Alcohol is well known to cause toxic dementia (see below). Cocaine can, too, by causing extreme hypertension, stroke, heart attack, loss of consciousness even without stroke or MI. There are probably others I can't think of off hand. Opiates are not usually on the list, EXCEPT if taken with benzos, which can indeed cause loss of consciousness with resultant oxygen deprivation.
"Alcohol dementia is a condition caused by excessive, long term alcohol consumption that results in problems with memory, learning and cognitive skills. Also known as Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndorme, this condition involves brain cell damage that is further exacerbated by malnutrition brought on by poor eating habits. The syndrome is actually two syndromes in one where Wernicke's disease has to do with cell damage within the brain and spinal chord, and throughout other areas of the body."(Alcohol Dementia - Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome - Dementia Today Network -DementiaToday.net)
All this stuff is scary, but preventable. Get off the poisons now, while you can, BEFORE you do any damage to yourself.
Probably you haven't. Clear thinking does return. For me, I'm no Mensa (ha! for sure), but my occupation requires plenty of clear thinking and on-the-spot decision making. While using opiates, I was not doing anything that would have harmed anyone by making errors, but I was writing a lot and believing I was doing some of my "best work" while using. NOT. I read that stuff now and see all kinds of tangential thinking and typos and other errors. It took me about 3 months off opiates to really feel "back to form".
There is a lesson in all this. Hindsight is 20/20, but worthless if not taken to heart.
Be scared, yes. But be smart now. You'll be back.
FT
"Alcohol dementia is a condition caused by excessive, long term alcohol consumption that results in problems with memory, learning and cognitive skills. Also known as Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndorme, this condition involves brain cell damage that is further exacerbated by malnutrition brought on by poor eating habits. The syndrome is actually two syndromes in one where Wernicke's disease has to do with cell damage within the brain and spinal chord, and throughout other areas of the body."(Alcohol Dementia - Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome - Dementia Today Network -DementiaToday.net)
All this stuff is scary, but preventable. Get off the poisons now, while you can, BEFORE you do any damage to yourself.
Probably you haven't. Clear thinking does return. For me, I'm no Mensa (ha! for sure), but my occupation requires plenty of clear thinking and on-the-spot decision making. While using opiates, I was not doing anything that would have harmed anyone by making errors, but I was writing a lot and believing I was doing some of my "best work" while using. NOT. I read that stuff now and see all kinds of tangential thinking and typos and other errors. It took me about 3 months off opiates to really feel "back to form".
There is a lesson in all this. Hindsight is 20/20, but worthless if not taken to heart.
Be scared, yes. But be smart now. You'll be back.
FT
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
I should also add, I'm a programmer who works on a website with around 1M hits/day, I have a TON of responsibility and 10's of 1000's of professionals rely on me (and others in my company) for a good chunk of their livelihood. If my brain wasn't sharp, I couldn't hold down this job, believe me 
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
I would like to know how you are doing derick...
Myself I am just about 5 months sober from a past 2 1/2 years of E use at least once a month in heavy dosage and smoking bud everyday for the past 2 1/2 years and just a couple weeks ago felt like I was going crazy... Seriously thought I had lost it that I would be in an institution for the rest of my life.
It has subsided but I still get depressed, foggy/lost state of mind, pressure on my temple and worry that my relationship with my girlfriend may be causing some of my stress. I have read just about everything about PAWS so know my emotions are all out of whack so praying my relationship isn't part of the cause.
So I've been sober for 5 months and just now really feeling the affects of paws but about a month ago I stopped running everyday so have a feeling that's why it has hit me so hard.
I would just like to know how you are feeling today? Have the symptoms subsided for you? I worry every day that I'm going to have these clouded and racing thoughts for the rest of my life and it scares the living **** out of me.
Hope you are well and everything is back to normal for you.
*prays for a good positive response*
Myself I am just about 5 months sober from a past 2 1/2 years of E use at least once a month in heavy dosage and smoking bud everyday for the past 2 1/2 years and just a couple weeks ago felt like I was going crazy... Seriously thought I had lost it that I would be in an institution for the rest of my life.
It has subsided but I still get depressed, foggy/lost state of mind, pressure on my temple and worry that my relationship with my girlfriend may be causing some of my stress. I have read just about everything about PAWS so know my emotions are all out of whack so praying my relationship isn't part of the cause.
So I've been sober for 5 months and just now really feeling the affects of paws but about a month ago I stopped running everyday so have a feeling that's why it has hit me so hard.
I would just like to know how you are feeling today? Have the symptoms subsided for you? I worry every day that I'm going to have these clouded and racing thoughts for the rest of my life and it scares the living **** out of me.
Hope you are well and everything is back to normal for you.
*prays for a good positive response*
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
I have but she is not specialized in withdrawals or addiction. I go in a couple weeks to speak with a psychiatrist specialized in addiction to tell him what's been going on. All the research I have done sounds like paws and have read it peaks about 3-6 months which puts me right on schedule. I have had my blood work done twice and all came back normal.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
When I quit drugs I was exercising 4-5 days a week and was eating very healthy. Up until about a month and a half ago I stopped running and was still eating somewhat healthy. Thinking back I had mild nights of depression and feeling worried but I think since I stopped running the natural endorphins stopped producing like they were and I just hit a wall. My days are better now from when I first thought I had lost it but not like I would like. Some days are better than others, today being one of the better ones, but a couple days ago I was just totally depressed. Felt like I had nothing going for me in my life, felt uneducated etc. the past couple of days I have had a "foggy" mind just feel really zoned out at times. Pressure on my head and headaches that seem to take place on the top of my head or my forehead/sides of my head. Everything I have read says it takes 3-24 months to recover from paws sometimes even longer. I'm hoping now that I have gotten back into the gym that these paws events will be shorter if not disappear.
Just wanted to see if derick was feeling any better.
Just wanted to see if derick was feeling any better.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1
When I was doing E and coke sort of regularly I would get bad mood swings and could not think straight. At that time I was in an Ivy League grad school and I felt like I couldnt hack it, and I was really scared. Its been 7 years since then, and I feel much better. For me, depression really messed with my mind, and the depression became worse when I used.
Today, I am not "clean" in that I still drink moderately. But addressing my depression (I take medication) and sleeping regularly made a HUGE difference. I recommend taking a class in a subject that always interested you--it helps to lessen the anxiety and exercise the brain...and you can meet like-minded people. I'm an artist, so art classes were perfect for me, but local community colleges usually have all kinds of great classes.
Today, I am not "clean" in that I still drink moderately. But addressing my depression (I take medication) and sleeping regularly made a HUGE difference. I recommend taking a class in a subject that always interested you--it helps to lessen the anxiety and exercise the brain...and you can meet like-minded people. I'm an artist, so art classes were perfect for me, but local community colleges usually have all kinds of great classes.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 29
Howdy Derick
Change the word "ruined" to "impaired" and wait awhile. The first time I cleaned up I noticed a significant improvement throughout the first 9 months (I had been smoking on a near daily basis for about 5 years and drank my way through college). Hit the bottle hard throughout my 30s, but managed to get a couple of MS and a PhD (I am a scientist). Joined AA/NA, it took about 2 years before the "magic" returned. (Magic in the sense of rapidly seeing through details and intuiting a solution).
Now I have 21 days with no booze or pot and 28 days with no vikes. Obvious mental impairment, auditory and visual hallucinations have subsided (thankfully), difficulty finding the right word at times, difficulty in concentrating. However things are much better than they were last week (don't remember much of two weeks ago).
Time will heal wounds, but not always. You are young and have an excellent chance of regaining your faculties (along with added wisdom). It gets much worse with age. Don't dwell on it, there is no way you can research/think your way out of it. The best thing to do is to stay clean and sober (and take care when your faculties have returned, that is usually when I would convince myself that it was OK to resume).
Best wishes (and don't dwell on that IQ stuff...its not what you have, its what you do).
Change the word "ruined" to "impaired" and wait awhile. The first time I cleaned up I noticed a significant improvement throughout the first 9 months (I had been smoking on a near daily basis for about 5 years and drank my way through college). Hit the bottle hard throughout my 30s, but managed to get a couple of MS and a PhD (I am a scientist). Joined AA/NA, it took about 2 years before the "magic" returned. (Magic in the sense of rapidly seeing through details and intuiting a solution).
Now I have 21 days with no booze or pot and 28 days with no vikes. Obvious mental impairment, auditory and visual hallucinations have subsided (thankfully), difficulty finding the right word at times, difficulty in concentrating. However things are much better than they were last week (don't remember much of two weeks ago).
Time will heal wounds, but not always. You are young and have an excellent chance of regaining your faculties (along with added wisdom). It gets much worse with age. Don't dwell on it, there is no way you can research/think your way out of it. The best thing to do is to stay clean and sober (and take care when your faculties have returned, that is usually when I would convince myself that it was OK to resume).
Best wishes (and don't dwell on that IQ stuff...its not what you have, its what you do).
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 625
My heart stopped twice during withdrawl and suffered brain permanent brain damage. I could not read or write when I came back, nor could walk unassisted. Since then I have gone back to school and got degree's in math and physics. I've written a book that is in its fourth printing and completed a marathon under my own power.
Not everything came back but by using 100% of what I've got left I'm functioning better than I did when I was in active alcoholism and addiction.
Not everything came back but by using 100% of what I've got left I'm functioning better than I did when I was in active alcoholism and addiction.
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