shaun00

Sponsor due round in a bit , and rather than post what i THINK i already know...im wiping the slate and have a new experience, same as step one experience....which i will still go back to if anyone posts ...im soaking up every bit of this..
Anyone wanna start feel free... STEP 2 = - "came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity"...

Catch you soon and once again thank you for walking with me on this .

BadCompany

In my experience there are many roads that lead through the second step but only two portals. The first option is to see what is working for others and do that, the second is to beat ourselves to death looking for a loophole or a way around the God stuff, and after being humiliated beyond our wildest nightmares, then and only then go back to the first option.

This grasshopper did not choose wisely.

WakeUp

I was the spiritual type for many years. Yet, I'm still an alcoholic. Why? I should have been shielded from this disease. I was spiritual, but disconnected.

I can believe in a power greater than myself, but the key is to believe that power greater than me can restore me to sanity!

Charmie

oooh step 2...along with step nine was the most memorable for me...i had a wonderful expericnce surrounding this step and KNEW i was going to be ok from there on in...will post about it tmmrw folks...oh goody

Music

Came-Came to AA
Came to-Became conscious of my condition.
Came to believe-That there was some sort of Higher Power out there and it isn't me.

This was a time consuming process for me and is an ongoing process to this day. I have to keep an attitude of gratitude for AA being there when I needed help. I can never forget I have alcohoISM not alcoholWASM. And, that God could if He were sought. "Sought" means to seek and continue to seek!

susanlauren

I believed in God. I believed God could. Where I struggled is if God would. My approach of "I believe in God and I'll pray" didn't get me very far. I learned about that James thing -- faith without works is dead. Another thing that didn't work out so well for me was how I prayed: God grant me my wishes vs. God, thy will be done. Prayer worked a whole lot better when I did the latter and not the former. And now that I think about it, "belief in God" didn't work out so well for me either. What did work was reliance and dependence upon God. So much to learn and yet a lifetime to continue ... Susan

Sugah

I'm going to answer this the same way I answered the first step thread. Shaun, maybe I'm confused, but it doesn't sound to me like you're wrestling the alcohol, but rather the isms -- egoism being the number one ass-kicking, insanity-producing ism that I have. I say "have" rather than "had" because it's sneaky, and I can feel it sneaking up on me. That's why I need to keep practicing the second step. It's not about staying away from the drink anymore. I've been granted grace and delivered from that obsession. But I'm a spiritual being having a (sometimes very) human experience, and that includes ego.

When I took the second step, I recognized that my insanity was rooted in ego. I couldn't have explained it that way at the time; that came later as I started to see the fruits of my fourth step. No, this whole need for a first step opened up my eyes to the need for the second. While I was throwing my psychic weight around, trying to exert power that wasn't mine and manage the unmanageable, I was alcoholically insane. I heard folks in meetings talking about acceptance. I recited the Serenity Prayer. What the hell was this?? How were they "accepting" things that, to me, seemed completely unacceptable? Oh, yeah. I'm powerless. My life is unmanageable with me running the show. Guess I need a Higher Power....

And I borrowed. The concept of God I have today is much different than what I initially used. It's not an exaggeration to say that I prayed, "Hey, Sally's God, can we talk?" I found my HP as I learned what was buried under all my own character defects--when I started to uncover the child that my HP created.

As far as Susan's questioning whether "God would" -- I remembered a t-shirt my neighbor used to wear that said, "I know I'm somebody 'cuz God don't make no junk." I was committed to the path, intent on seeing it through to the end (wherever that might lead), so I figured if I did the work to clear away the junk, I'd find the somebody God made.

Peace & Love,
Sugah

sugarbear1

Willingness. I came to believe after working steps 4-7. Are you working with a sponsor or doing this on your own? My sponsor & I had lengthy discussions and textbook studies.....

DayTrader

Even after accepting this step.... even after believing it......even after being convinced I "got it" I was encouraged to double-back and review my current agnosticism - to look for those areas where my ego had rebuilt and I had, through my actions, decided "God is nothing."

Even on my worst days I don't think you'd ever hear me say "I think God is nothing." Even on my best days though, it wouldn't be too tough to find at least a moment where my actions would indicate I'm back to running my life again and not relying upon God - absolutely insane given the the revelations I had in step 1 where I saw how much I needed God's help to overcome the obsession, the allergy and the spiritual malady - all conditions I can't beat with my own power.

So in my "coming to" in step 2, a big part of the process is continually searching for my current agnosticism... looking for the areas where my ego has reasserted itself and eased God out.

My current experience shows me my ego is most likely to do this in two areas: 1. When I'm afraid. Common sense would tell me that if something's got me scared that it's a great time to turn to God. My history/inventory shows me that when I'm nervous or scared, I retreat back to old tools: my intellect, my willpower, my ability to manipulate or lie. 2. When I feel great and/or when I feel I'm at the top of my game I get lulled into thinking I'm good, I've got this. No need for God now....I'm on the straight and narrow.

Typically, both of these situations lead to my butt winding up in a sling. The consequences of my actions get progressively more painful until I'm so detached and hurting so bad that, once again, I'm at the jumping off point......all over again.

Can God help me? Will he help me? Can/will He help me now, when I need Him the most? Have I angered him or pushed Him away one too many times? Have I wandered too far from the spiritual path to get back on it again? Am I just making too much of the pain and this situation really calls for more drive and exertion of my will 'cuz it's really just a test to see if I can overcome my fears?

These doubts.....partially based in agnosticism and partially based in even more fear than I had when this whole ball started rolling forces me to once again go back and re-choose: God's everything or He's nothing. By this point, the pain is typically so bad that all I can think is "He BETTER be everything because if He's nothing, my ship is sunk." Once again, faced with alcoholic destruction (all while not drinking, mind you), I've been surrendered... the white flags are up an I'm willing to go to God......again.

Music called this an ongoing process and I'd absolutely concur. To expect that I'll work this step perfectly and without any missteps smacks of the same agnostic ego all over again. What I do see is that, usually, my "dry relapses" don't go quite as deep and I can spot them more quickly. Bear in mind, usually doesn't mean always. From what I've learned from LOTS and lots of ppl who've gone before me, there likely WILL be times when I don't spot it, when I slip deeper into my alcoholism than I've been before, or maybe that I just dig deeper and awaken to some stuff in my life that really messes me up. Common sense would tell me I better prepare for these future dark patches by grooving my going-to-God skills..... like a pro golfer grooves his swing on the practice range.

Hmm.....I wonder if if wouldn't make sense to make this spiritual way of living MY way of living for the rest of my life......maybe I need to make a decision to do this stuff for real and for good.

Tommyh

shaun,
condensed version....


one thing is sure,after the last paragraph on page 43,no human power can or will keep me sober or sane,it was not a bit of trouble for me to believe I needed to look for a HP
my sponsor got be back into the book,chapter 4,and after about 6 times thru it,he had me look for a set of questions.I finally got it right and then I had to answer those questions to his satisfaction.

first,a few things:
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. we had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power?

notice it says "live",not stay sober
we have both been there,life sucked because we thought we could manage well enough to find sanity and happiness without God
fact is, sober living nearly killed me and you and the guy you about ran over with the truck
such are the signs of a miserable unmanagable life

here,the big book tells my story
Leaving aside the drink question, they tell why living [sober] was so unsatisfactory.

so,I faced the reality I could not manage my life and find sobriety,sanity,peace or happiness.

I wanted this:
Every one of them has gained access to, and believe in, a Power greater than himself. This Power has in each case accomplished the miraculous, the humanly impossible.
They flatly declare that since they have come to believe in a Power greater than themselves, to take a certain attitude toward that Power, and to do certain simple things. There has been a revolutionary change in their way of living and thinking. In the face of collapse and despair, in the face of the total failure of their human resources, they found that a new power, peace, happiness, and sense of direction flowed into them. This happened soon after they wholeheartedly met a few simple requirements.

When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.

so my sponsor already had me praying and being of service by now and my life was somewhat better.Next he had me practice the paragraph below every day:

deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly [inside], but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.

by following the big book directions and my sponsors directions,I saw this promise-
the promise that I cannot fail as long as I walk the path

We can only clear the ground a bit. If our testimony helps sweep away prejudice, enables you to think honestly, encourages you to search diligently within yourself, then, if you wish, you can join us on the Broad Highway. With this attitude you cannot fail. the consciousness of your belief is sure to come to you.
Thus was our friend's cornerstone fixed in place.

my sponsor reminded me we was building a arch thru which I would walk to freedom on day.
he was right


so,the set of questions are :
I had to fearlessly face the proposition that either God is everything
or else He is nothing.
God either is or He isn't.
What was our choice to be?

decision time
He is or He isn`t
if He wasn`t,back to the start of the book and start over or live like I was...if He was everything,then I had a few more questions to answer for myself

Tommyh

shaun,a last thing

I found myself standing at a turning point of my life here...decision time

step 2 questions from my sponsor and book
is God everything?
or nothing?

I was willing to say everything

(a) am I a alcoholic and can not manage my own live sober,today?
(b) can any human power relieved my alcoholism today?
(c) can God if I seek Him sober today?

my answers

a-yes
b-no
c-yes


am I convinced that any life run on self will can hardly be a success?

today I am,but my sponsor sent me home to think it over for a few days because I wasn`t when he asked me.

if i did not answer these rightly,i could do several things
go back to the start of the book and start over
or live like I was
or be more open-minded and willing

One thing my sponsor would not let me do was proceed to step 3 since I did not meet the step 3 requirements

these questions and the results of working thru the big book put me on a spot where it was decision time for me

Shaun,decision time is approaching,what is yours to be?

God bless you as you make your decision brother

one warning:logic and reason can be enemy's of Faith

TheJungianThing

When I look at my current unmanageability in the areas of my health (weight, bp and blood sugar), finances, and in my roles as husband, father, son, brother, recovered member of alcoholics anonymous and employee, I've bought into the notion that those correlate to my current agnositicsm.

Sort of tying this into the Step 1 notion of unmanagability and the doctor's opinion. Specifically the terms "maladjusted to life" (perhaps where the life on life's terms stuff comes from ?), in "full flight from reality" and "outright mental defective".

I'm undisciplined in most of those areas of my life. That creates stress, creates problems, and makes life unmanageable. Why ?

Mostly because I continue to "do it my way". Experientially that would come into play as I keep telling myself I'll get my health and weight under control as soon as this happens in my job (project is over) or as soon as school is completed. (maladjusted to life, things need to line up for me BEFORE I conform) Then I'll be called upon to do something in regards to my role as husband or son - rather than be honest and say "I must accomplish this task for work, so I can do my school work" I"ll operate under a delusion (full flight from reality) that I can "pull an all-nighter" or some such unrealistic nonsense. Things get done in a chaotic sense, I grow a little more resentful, I don't have the energy to get the exercise my bp needs, I don't adhere to a proper diet for an overweight budding diabetic (fast food, late night eating, spending too much money eating out and no budget).

Because I'm still running the show, rather than letting God (nature, reality, Good Orderly Direction) run me.

That's my current step one and step two. This was inspired by a Mark H mp3 I heard two years ago.

keithj

That's a really good summary.

I've told my story on here a number of times. Staunch atheist, unwilling to consider the idea of a higher power until I was forced to it. I was out of options, and even though I resisted the idea, didn't agree with it, didn't want anything to do with a spiritual life, I had very little to lose.

I was willing to try it, and as the result of the 12 Steps, I came to believe.

Today, I have real experience with a life that is reliant on a higher power. I don't have to take it on faith, or see it work in others. I 'know' it works in my life. But, my 'lingering agnosticism' still tells me at times, and in certain areas of my life, that I can get by without God.

That's why I need Step 1 to force me into Step 2. Step 2 is the inevitable result of Step 1. There's nothing left for me to do, after I've beaten my head off the wall over some problem I can't seem to fix, no matter how hard I try.

Today I get glimpses ( or extended periods) of my life without God. It ain't pretty. If I'm willing, I get to experience that power in my life. And when I experience that power in my life, there is no denying it. I come to believe because I have actual experience with that power. It's undeniably there, working through and in me.

sugarbear1

Sorry about my flippant post!

I shall read & remember more now, thanks to a kind soul who helped me realize where you're coming from.

My sponsor asked me this: Since your way isn't working, are you willing to believe, or are you willing to set aside your old beliefs?

Very simple, but it touched something inside of me.

This step and the 11th step are very much a part of my daily life. The longer we stay stopped, the more our willingness to believe and our desire to increase our spirituality needs to be worked.

Thank you for your posts!

shaun00

Hey guys...thanks for you replies....spent last night with sponsor, and am feeling fantastic.

While my insanity is fresh in my mind....and the awful consequences of my reliance on self.....this step, im only to willing to take.
Sanity means something different to what it meant when i first took this step.
At the time all i could focus on was the insane things when i drank......desperation gave me the willingness.

AND AGAIN!........desperation gives me the willingness...and it isnt about booze any longer.....both times, with this deal, it had to hurt like hell for my mind to open......
Its a step that askS me......am i willing to make a tiny step towards a possible power that could rid me of my problems ...
Reading through we agnostics....warnings jump out....."we must find a spiritual basis of life -or else" ....however inadequate..

Its a start....a ***** of light...the author uses words like....START...COMMENCE...GROWTH...FIRST .......it say to me this is a beginning of a never ending beautiful book......sooner rather than later the main characters are gonna come to life.....all i need is a start...an open mind......
That open mind for me is based on past experiences , a level of desperation had to be reach...just like this time.
He who has all power was always there anyway....just hidden behind...calamity (fear)....pomp..(ego)....and worship of other things..(sprees).....

So sure thing.....i realize i dont actually have an option here....its either move on through the beautiful book.....or throw it out the window.
Im totally ready and eager to move on.

Tommyh

good to see you doing better Shaun
you mentioned warnings.....my sponsor [Jeff] and you must have been chatting..
he had me go thru the chapter and into chapter 5 up to step 3 looking for warnings,directions and promises
each was to be highlighted in a different color with a "w" or "p" or "d" written in the margin

I saw things I had missed by doing it - the book came alive more that before
he also reminded me that the directions are non negotiable if I want what the promises promise
Man,I love my sponsor,he did not miss a thing

I had quite a time with the section [ in chapt 4] talking about our reason
my reason is just another form of human stuff that will not necessarily help me step ashore to the land of faith,it can keep me on the bridge,scared to step forward.It can be my enemy controlled by self,or a ally controlled by God

susanlauren

If I could have found a loophole or a way out that didn't involve the God thing, the steps, and spirituality, I would have taken that route and not done any of this work. I wanted a solution, but I didn't want THAT solution (as in the AA program). Step One painted me into a corner with no where to go. That at depth experience forced me into Step Two and into searching for a Power greater than myself that could solve my problem. I did not get the solution I wanted but I did get the solution I needed. Susan

Tommyh

my sponsor sent me home after I did not answer one question convincingly,the question-
do I now believe that any life run on self will can hardly be a success? ( I found out the reason for this later)
I knew my life would be a failure run on self will,but other people?I was not convinced of that 100%
He sent me home much to my shock.
Several days went by and as I occasional thought of it,it came to me one day when I was out working in the yard.
I looked across my yard next door and saw my son`s fiancee and my son.Their life at the time,was a spiritual,emotional,and financial mess.Then I thought of my wife`s side of the family.Of those whose lives was going badly,and whose life`s was going rather good.The ones who had a good life had a spiritual or religious belief,those others did not.I thought of others who was doing the same.
Then I was convinced and I soon called my sponsor and told him.

We met again and it wasn`t long until he sent me home again....this time to go further with the process of building a archway to freedom.I was to consider a few things and then make a decision of a serious nature,a decision that moved me from the turning point where I was.I was standing at the forks of a road and he knew I should not stand too long...

I was to consider this:
am I willing to make God as I understand Him:
my Father in life?
my Director in life?
my Principal in life?
my new Employer in life?
was I willing to become
A agent of God's ever advancing Creation?

Was I willing to make these the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which I can pass to freedom?

He sent me home to think long and hard about it.
He even showed me in the book where it said this....in case I doubted
when or if I was ready,I was to call him
if I wasn`t ready,don`t call,we got nothing to talk about.

He reached out and grabbed my hand,and shook it.With a look of question on his face,and a slight tone of sadness in his voice,he said
Tommy
I do hope I hear from you again.With that he turned and was gone in a second.

I went home,shocked again,and thought long and hard about what had happened and where I was at in life....which way did I want to go?
Like Susan said,step one had painted me in a corner......

Charmie

"deep down in every man,woman and child is the fundamental idea of God"
This I COULD NOT deny....I was more than willing to believe in ANYTHING.....but that line hit me like a ton of bricks....I came from a non religious totally agnostic/atheist home but I had prayed as a child....I knew there and then that God was within me and always had been.i started believing he had loved me and cared for me all along even before looking at inventory and getting rid of the wrongs I had perceived others had done me.
A very close family member died the day I took step two with my sponsor.shortly after was his funeral....by this time some of the bedevilments little by little were getting easier and less......I was of use at the funeral...my emotional nature was not anything like what it would have been one month previous.i got into bed that evening after speaking excitedly to my sponsor on the phone (strange maybe to an outsider considering it was a funeral...lol) I felt more lucid that night than I could ever remember feeling....I KNEW and BELIEVED I was going to be ok.

susanlauren

Last May/June of 2011, I took the steps according to the directions in the Big Book (with the help of a great tour guide and interpreter). It wasn't that I WANTED to do the work because I honestly DIDN'T WANT TO. It was that I NEEDED to do the work (desperately, and I knew that) and I TOOK THE ACTIONS NECESSARY despite my not wanting to, not liking to, not agreeing with it, not understanding it and not thinking it would work. One lesson learned: These spiritual principles work despite one's motivation, intent, attitude, agreement, understanding and/or belief in the efficacy of the process IF one follows the directions.

I think a good way to describe the process is that I took the steps and then the steps took me. The only way I could have not "given in to the personality change" was to have not taken the actions asked of me by the steps. I started the journey with some pretty bad motivation, intent and attitudes. All that has changed. I WANT this now. Genuinely and sincerely WANT IT.

I no longer feel trapped or painted into a corner. My choice wasn't between "the prison of alcoholism" or "the prison of AA and the steps" (as I had been negatively viewing it). It was "the prison of alcoholism" or "the freedom of AA and the steps". I was seeing it all wrong. Truly, the program is freedom. The price I have paid, and yes, there was and is a price to be paid, has been well worth all that I have gained in return. If I had known then what I know now, I would have actively sought out someone who could have taken me through the work that very first day I walked into the rooms. There was no need for me to have been fearful or resistant.
Susan