a few questions
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: nocity, alabama
Posts: 8
a few questions
How long does the misery usually last? Are the WD's dangerous? If so, how to know the difference between pure misery and a real medical threat? My chest feels feels like something heavy is sitting on it, and my windpipe feels like it is squeezing shut. It's not hard to breathe, but it is scaring me a bit. I woke up feeling OK, so can I expect brief periods of respite? or will it become a constant terror of WD symptoms? What are the ramifications of staying on oxy's? specifically, what kind of harm does it cause to the body and mind?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 683
You are experiencing exactly what we all have! If I understand correctly you are on day 3? If so, you're half way through the physical W/D. As for the ramifications of continuing your habbit? Hmmmm Let's see:
Financial ruin
Jail
Prison
Felony that sticks with you for the rest of your life
Losing the respect of your friends of families
Oh yeah --- DEATH?
On and On.....
Get the picture?
Financial ruin
Jail
Prison
Felony that sticks with you for the rest of your life
Losing the respect of your friends of families
Oh yeah --- DEATH?
On and On.....
Get the picture?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 683
As for the physiologic aspects of the abusing oxy....
You are basically blowing out your brains own pain receptors. As you continue to use and abuse, your brain no longer makes it's own feel good chemicals. No more endorphins, dopamine, seratonin, etc.
Right now as you are going through W/D, the anxiety you are experiencing is mostly due to the adrenalin being poured into your body because your brain doesn't know what to do now that it's no longer getting it's drug.
It takes a few days for your brain to start making it's own chemicals. Your brain is attempting to heal itself right now. Believe me when I say that everyone of us who've used these drugs have experienced what you are going through. You can't die from oxy W/D. You're just going to feel like **** on stick for a few days. You're half way there though!
You are basically blowing out your brains own pain receptors. As you continue to use and abuse, your brain no longer makes it's own feel good chemicals. No more endorphins, dopamine, seratonin, etc.
Right now as you are going through W/D, the anxiety you are experiencing is mostly due to the adrenalin being poured into your body because your brain doesn't know what to do now that it's no longer getting it's drug.
It takes a few days for your brain to start making it's own chemicals. Your brain is attempting to heal itself right now. Believe me when I say that everyone of us who've used these drugs have experienced what you are going through. You can't die from oxy W/D. You're just going to feel like **** on stick for a few days. You're half way there though!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Huntsville, Alabama
Posts: 18
I too never met an oxy i didnt like. stayed high as a giraffe's hat for a long, long time. Finally couldn't take it anymore, couldn't muster up the nads to quit, so I went to a methadone clinic. Stayed there on and off for 8 years........ Do I regret it? yes, would I do it again? I suppose if I had to. I'm now 3rd day off of the methadone. And that hasn't been a pleasant ride either. You gotta get MAD AS THE F*CK about it and learn to embrace the misery. Thats bout all I got. Working for me so far.......
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Well, to be totally honest, most of your mainstream opioids/opiates are actually remarkably non-toxic as far as drugs go. By that I mean they aren't a poison of any kind, and unless it gets REALLY BAD for a REALLY LONG time, the body CAN recover remarkably well from their abuse. What they are ... is a synthetic version of your own 'endorphins', which your body is well-equipped to handle/metabolize without 'damaging' the organs or causing cancer or the like.
The one thing that does NOT recover? Your ability to 'dabble' with them like you probably did in the beginning. That NEVER comes back. After a long run of abuse/getting high, you WILL remain forever with the proclivity to become re-addicted, MUCH more quickly than it ever was 'in the beginning'. What I mean here is ... you get high on OC ONE TIME after like YEARS being completely clean ... you'll wake up dopesick and craving like hell.
Important note: I'm talking PURE opioids (OC/Roxies/Dilaudid/Morphine), like pharmaceuticals, taken orally. Shooting up junk from the streets, or abusing Vikes/Percs is a WHOLE different ballgame, for reasons that should be obvious.
However, they are incredibly addictive, and they are a potent CNS depressant, so they CAN kill you via OD, esp. if you mix them with benzos (xanax, valium) or alcohol.
More importantly, the addiction itself can also kill you. MANY people end up offing themselves due to the misery that the addiction situation can bring about. So just because I say these drugs are relatively non-toxic does NOT MEAN that aren't incredibly dangerous. They just aren't any kind of a 'poison', technically speaking.
The only way that WD's are dangerous is if you have such bad vomiting and/or diarrhea that you become badly dehydrated. As long as you can consume fluids, and do so, then no, you can't die from W/D's. You'll just wish you could
The really bad misery, assuming a short-acting opioid-agonist like oxy/hydro/morphine, lasts about 5-7 days, usually peaking on days 3-5. Usually the effects after one week are mostly just a bit of depression and lethargy/lack of energy, at least in most people's experience. Certain longer acting opioids can last much longer though (methadone takes like 1 month, subs can take a couple weeks, and I've heard dilaudid is real lingering b*tch as well), and it can depend of course how much/how long you abused.
The one thing that does NOT recover? Your ability to 'dabble' with them like you probably did in the beginning. That NEVER comes back. After a long run of abuse/getting high, you WILL remain forever with the proclivity to become re-addicted, MUCH more quickly than it ever was 'in the beginning'. What I mean here is ... you get high on OC ONE TIME after like YEARS being completely clean ... you'll wake up dopesick and craving like hell.
Important note: I'm talking PURE opioids (OC/Roxies/Dilaudid/Morphine), like pharmaceuticals, taken orally. Shooting up junk from the streets, or abusing Vikes/Percs is a WHOLE different ballgame, for reasons that should be obvious.
However, they are incredibly addictive, and they are a potent CNS depressant, so they CAN kill you via OD, esp. if you mix them with benzos (xanax, valium) or alcohol.
More importantly, the addiction itself can also kill you. MANY people end up offing themselves due to the misery that the addiction situation can bring about. So just because I say these drugs are relatively non-toxic does NOT MEAN that aren't incredibly dangerous. They just aren't any kind of a 'poison', technically speaking.
The only way that WD's are dangerous is if you have such bad vomiting and/or diarrhea that you become badly dehydrated. As long as you can consume fluids, and do so, then no, you can't die from W/D's. You'll just wish you could
The really bad misery, assuming a short-acting opioid-agonist like oxy/hydro/morphine, lasts about 5-7 days, usually peaking on days 3-5. Usually the effects after one week are mostly just a bit of depression and lethargy/lack of energy, at least in most people's experience. Certain longer acting opioids can last much longer though (methadone takes like 1 month, subs can take a couple weeks, and I've heard dilaudid is real lingering b*tch as well), and it can depend of course how much/how long you abused.
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
Oh, and I forgot one question there ... in my experience, no, there are no real respites from the misery of w/d's while you're in their throes ... it's pretty much a constant state of suckage for a bit there. That's part of what makes them so friggin hard to get through, and why so many people don't, esp. not 'on their own'. That's part of why 'detox/rehab' is such a thriving industry ... it can be VERY tough to get through without being locked down, and feeling like you CANNOT POSSIBLY get more ...
Honestly though, while the pain/suffering is intense, it REALLY doesn't last THAT LONG, esp. in the overall scheme of things. A week or so goes by in a flash, normally, ya know?
Honestly though, while the pain/suffering is intense, it REALLY doesn't last THAT LONG, esp. in the overall scheme of things. A week or so goes by in a flash, normally, ya know?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Bama,
I would like to throw my 2 cents in about how long the misery lasts.
Bval is correct about the detox period of time, where there are actual "withdrawals" from opiates. Stomach cramps, diarrhea, hot/cold sweats, restless leg syndrome, and stuff like that.
I'm not really sure WHY the lethargy is prolonged after that, but I felt truly weak and lethargic for the first 3 weeks, and after that it was a very gradual return to feeling like I had anywhere near the energy I used to have. The insomnia was terrible, too. That lingered a long time, several months, for me. Obviously, the drug had long been out of my system by then, so you can't blame detox for that.
My guess is that there is a compensatory mechanism going on. While using, many of us decondition in the worst way. There is loss of muscle mass, and there is also a corresponding loss in the ability to produce natural endorphins. Natural endorphins are known to increase with large muscle activity, and if you lost a lot of your muscle mass, it makes sense that part of the ability for natural endorphin activity is lost.
The other part is the depression, which lingers terribly for some. My own sense of it is that many of us suffered, and suffer, from some natural dopamine imbalance to begin with, which caused at least some underlying depression, anxiety, insomnia, and other psychologically associated disorders. Those issues seem to be "treated" by the opiates, at least at first. During opiate use, the enhanced dopamine levels, even though artificial, become sort of the new "normal" in our minds about how we are supposed to feel. Because the dopamine balance is artificially achieved, it is not going to be easily matched by natural levels of the brain chemicals very soon after detox. That requires a repatterning of our responses, as well as a rebuilding of our physical stamina. Which, of course, means more natural endorphins.
So, it is sort of a cascade of events that leads you into addiction --> tolerance, dependence, addiction, toxicity. But yet another cascade of events that occurs in recovery --> detox, reconditioning, stamina, hopefully increased muscle mass, increased natural endorphins. As you might imagine, each of these processes takes time. How much time depends on age, health, sometimes gender. Young guys seem to bounce back faster.
When I was in early recovery, I Googled PAWS, and I did NOT want to believe anything I read there. I had no intention of taking over a year to recover! And yet, here I am at a little over a year out, and I am still amazed to feel even better each month. Could be it's because I am an OLD BAG. But, what the hell, I'd be an old bag anyway.
Ha!
FT
I would like to throw my 2 cents in about how long the misery lasts.
Bval is correct about the detox period of time, where there are actual "withdrawals" from opiates. Stomach cramps, diarrhea, hot/cold sweats, restless leg syndrome, and stuff like that.
I'm not really sure WHY the lethargy is prolonged after that, but I felt truly weak and lethargic for the first 3 weeks, and after that it was a very gradual return to feeling like I had anywhere near the energy I used to have. The insomnia was terrible, too. That lingered a long time, several months, for me. Obviously, the drug had long been out of my system by then, so you can't blame detox for that.
My guess is that there is a compensatory mechanism going on. While using, many of us decondition in the worst way. There is loss of muscle mass, and there is also a corresponding loss in the ability to produce natural endorphins. Natural endorphins are known to increase with large muscle activity, and if you lost a lot of your muscle mass, it makes sense that part of the ability for natural endorphin activity is lost.
The other part is the depression, which lingers terribly for some. My own sense of it is that many of us suffered, and suffer, from some natural dopamine imbalance to begin with, which caused at least some underlying depression, anxiety, insomnia, and other psychologically associated disorders. Those issues seem to be "treated" by the opiates, at least at first. During opiate use, the enhanced dopamine levels, even though artificial, become sort of the new "normal" in our minds about how we are supposed to feel. Because the dopamine balance is artificially achieved, it is not going to be easily matched by natural levels of the brain chemicals very soon after detox. That requires a repatterning of our responses, as well as a rebuilding of our physical stamina. Which, of course, means more natural endorphins.
So, it is sort of a cascade of events that leads you into addiction --> tolerance, dependence, addiction, toxicity. But yet another cascade of events that occurs in recovery --> detox, reconditioning, stamina, hopefully increased muscle mass, increased natural endorphins. As you might imagine, each of these processes takes time. How much time depends on age, health, sometimes gender. Young guys seem to bounce back faster.
When I was in early recovery, I Googled PAWS, and I did NOT want to believe anything I read there. I had no intention of taking over a year to recover! And yet, here I am at a little over a year out, and I am still amazed to feel even better each month. Could be it's because I am an OLD BAG. But, what the hell, I'd be an old bag anyway.
Ha!
FT
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: CA Native
Posts: 2,509
I agree whole-heartedly with FT here ... there's no doubt certain effects can linger, and a lot depends on general health, age, how long/how much/what exactly you abused. Sometimes those lingering effects can be very troublesome, and lead one back to using, and/or a white-knuckle type of state, where you're 'clean', but you're NOT friggin happy.
And I also agree a natural dopamine imbalance could EASILY be at the root of many people's proclivity towards this addiction. It's just another neurotransmitter like serotonin, and look how many people take AD's to try to get their serotonin at proper levels.
All this is part of why a support system is so important. People who think they're going to get away w/kicking by themselves, not telling ANYone in their lives, not going to meetings of any kind or 'working a program' ... I just gotta tell ya ... their chances of staying clean ... are very poor in the longer term. Without a distinct sense of 'accountability' to other people in the world ... you're pretty much f***ed is the truth.
And I also agree a natural dopamine imbalance could EASILY be at the root of many people's proclivity towards this addiction. It's just another neurotransmitter like serotonin, and look how many people take AD's to try to get their serotonin at proper levels.
All this is part of why a support system is so important. People who think they're going to get away w/kicking by themselves, not telling ANYone in their lives, not going to meetings of any kind or 'working a program' ... I just gotta tell ya ... their chances of staying clean ... are very poor in the longer term. Without a distinct sense of 'accountability' to other people in the world ... you're pretty much f***ed is the truth.
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