struggles79

Hi all, I quit taking vics almost two weeks ago and I still get intense cravings for it. Like today it's all I can think about. I was wondering if anyone else has been through this and if the urge will ever truly go away? I know it's all in my head but it's just like a consistent nagging or a pull. I feel better now physically now that I'm off them but I still feel messed up mentally like being moody or snappy and not sleeping. When does it get better?

FT

The urge to take drugs for an addict is not an abnormal urge.

Cravings at 2 weeks out are not just psychological, they are still physical. Even though the drug is no longer in your system, your brain receptors "remember" it and know they are empty, and they want a refill.

You need more time to get used to an unaltered state. Remember that drug rushes are NOT normal for our brains. Just because they feel good does not mean you should try to reproduce them in natural ways. Our natural endorphins work in shorter bursts, which is the way we are supposed to feel intense pleasure.

It takes time.

You might want to read some of the threads that talk about this stuff. This is a good site for that. Also, maybe check out AVRT in the secular connections forum, which talks about the Addictive Voice.

FT

Threshold

Have you ever had to go through a breakup of a relationship that had some good times in it? I think it's like that, at first it's real hard, there's a big hole in our lives. we get panicky at times, wonder how we'll ever fill it, if we will ever feel that way again. Sometimes it consumes our mind for awhile, but in time the hole does get filled, we miss the person less and less. Sure, there will always be times we think back, and sigh, and remember the good times, and conveniently forget the not so good times. But the longing passes, and we get busy with life, and we find new real joys and relationships.

Those things can happen regarding our DOC too, if we let them, if we don't cling to the memories, romanticize, and refuse to move on.

neferkamichael

Struggles, today I'm 108 days off crack and the urges are lessening, but haven't gone away completely, and probably never will. Early on I suffered quite abit, but made it through, and so will you. It gets better with time.

struggles79

Thanks all for your kind words. It just seems the hard part is not actually quitting but staying off. It's like when things go wrong or life gets stressful I always had that to comfort me. Now I'm kinda lost but I think the problem is like you guys said we always remeber the good times with our DOC and not all the pain and damage it caused.

Threshold the analogy of quitting drugs as a breakup is a really good one and that's pretty much what it feels like but with breakups eventually you stop thinking about that person all the time maybe just once in a blue so that is hopeful. Ill start looking at from that persepctive. Nefer congrats on 108 days clean I hope I can make it that far but I guess you can't really hope just deciede and stick it out.

FT

Struggles79,

Threshold is spot on with the relationship anology. Most of us almost "grieve" the loss of our drug, for a long time. Your drug never asks questions, and at first never fails you. You truly miss the welcome respite the drug brings. Try to remember that the warm feelings for the drug are part of the addiction. The drug is only a chemical, and a toxic one at that. How toxic must something be if it makes you sick NOT to take it. That's pretty powerful.

Everything you are feeling is EXACTLY like what we have ALL felt, too. All of us have mourned the loss of the drugs we quit. Letting go of something like voluntarily says a lot about your character. Don't despair -- those raw feelings do get a LOT better, and you aren't going to feel this way about the drug forever.

Ft

struggles79

Thanks failedtaper, I really hope the feeling does past cause I just feel like breaking down. It's like I think if I just had one more pill it would talk the pain away but I know I will be back at square one. I'm just tired of feeling depressed and at a loss.

You are right about the drug being toxic, I could say I feel this way because I'm not taking my drug but if I never took it in the first place I wouldn't feel this way. I guess it's just changing the perspective. It's just good to know that I'm not the only one and other people have went through this and have succedded.

struggles79

Thanks failedtaper, I really hope the feeling does past cause I just feel like breaking down. It's like I think if I just had one more pill it would talk the pain away but I know I will be back at square one. I'm just tired of feeling depressed and at a loss.

You are right about the drug being toxic, I could say I feel this way because I'm not taking my drug but if I never took it in the first place I wouldn't feel this way. I guess it's just changing the perspective. It's just good to know that I'm not the only one and other people have went through this and have succedded.

WIth all that being said I'm sitting here thinking of going to the doctor to ask for Tramadol and I'm trying to rationalize it in my head that it is not a narcotic and its ok. Can someone please put that in perspective for me because I can't really trust my judgement because I was never addicted to Tramadol just vics so in my brain I'm saying 'ya it's ok'..

larrylive

Yes they do.

england

I still have urges but it has greatly decreased

FT

Struggles79,

Beware, because Tramadol IS an opiate. It is not a "Schedule" drug, but it is an opiate. I'm not sure why the FDA still classifies it outside the other narcotics, but it can be as hard or harder to quit than stronger opiates are.

Part of the detox is the strong pulls you are feeling to re-use. Personally, I regret EVER having learned what an opiate rush feels like. The trouble is, it can't be sustained. Our brains were not designed for this kind of rush, and continually maintaining it requires ever increasing doses of the same drug to TRY to get the original effect. I emphasize the word "try" because you can never get it back -- that first, lovely, warm rush that opiates first give you.

So, we spend our lives -- all of it -- seeking it, expecting we'll eventually find it again, but it never comes. Instead, we spend our lives feeling dope sick, with only a blush of that lovely rush to reward us with each, ever-increasing dose. I remember how pill counting obsessed me. I was so protective of that bottle, doling out my dose, despairing as I saw the numbers of pills in the bottom of the bottle getting smaller and smaller.

We forget that part.

We do get how you feel. We all remember the rush, the lovely warm rush of opiate. Even now, I think of it fondly. That damned opiate lie.

Hang in there and try to hold strong. If you do go to your doctor, explain you are sick from withdrawal and want help to stay OFF the drugs. Don't ask for or accept Tramadol as a substitute. If you do, you'll be back here again in a few months, because over time, Tramadol is just as addictive as other opiates are.

If you do go to the doc, sometimes they will give you non-narcotic things to help with the jitteriness and insomnia. They don't work terrifically well, but some people get some relief there. I chose not to use the substitute drugs like Suboxone, but those are available, too. Beware, though, you are left with another drug to detox from later on, if you go that route.

You are still early in detox. Doing this takes time, but it is time well spent to get to the other side. And the other side is damn nice. Truly.

Keep posting. Keep reading. Coming here in my early detox really helped me a lot. And you'll hear that sentiment repeatedly here.

FT

struggles79

Thank you so much failedtaper. It's funny how I know all these things about addiction but putting them into action is harder. I read somewhere all addicts get addicted cause they are constantly try to get that feeling of the first time. Like back to a time when things were rosy and seemed so nice but like you said it's just a lie. There can never be another first time and it will never feel the same.

I didn't go to the doctor I went for a drive instead and got a coffee. I'm just fooling myself if I think I can get Tramadol because like you said then I would have to detox off that. You know I quit alot of things in my life from cocaine to ecstasy to weed I'm finding I've had a tougher time with this than all the others. Why these drugs are so available is beyond me but I guess we have to take responsiblty for our own actions and not blame others. Thanks again for the encouragement!

rizlaman

Quality reading, your right about the relationship thing,it's just the same, I'm going to look at it that way and see how I get on thanks for advice on this thread as makes a lot of sence and has made me look at my problems differently.
Good luck everyone hang on in there

Free2012

One of the things I try, but often fail to do is "counter" the good memory of using drugs with the bad memories. The cravings aren't as strong and the "memory" of using isn't as pleasant when we are honest and present ourselves with the complete picture of drug use. So instead of just remembering the first few moments you feel that euphoric rush of energy and the impulse to just call up your friends and get the night rolling - I remember my favorite necklace that was robbed because I was in the wrong place/wrong time sniffing coke with some loser. I think of the rings I pawned, the terrible coke crashes I experienced -puking in the morning, the guilt of stealing and lying to your loved ones. Don't just selectively remember the pleasurable stimuli, couple them with the painful memories. It hurts, but it works. No PAIN no GAIN,

Free2012

The urge to use, the multiple cravings throughout the day or week, can be overcome - but it takes EFFORT and PATIENCE. If you're not willing to be patient and let the process unfold, you are setting yourself up for failure. Write down as much as you can about your cravings: the most likely times they'll creep up on you, people and places that trigger them, anything you can. I don't know how much you can "prepare" for cravings because they are sudden and typically play on your impulses. But here's the very good news: the urge to use isn't random or accidental: their is a definite system to the way they appear for each individual. It's about the individual understanding how the addiction reproduces itself and being honest about the cycles that occur. Sadly, in 2010 my cravings went from occuring only at night and mostly on the weekends to almost anytime of day and any day of the week. This is when I hit my daily use cycle. It was terrible. But once I brought myself down to reality and took ownership of the situation I realized that mainly the urge to use occurs at night, and during the latter part of the week, the "weekend cocaine user personality" you might call it. Once you know how and when your cravings play on your weakness, you can really begin to tackle the problem. There are many ways to counter cravings, but often times the whole point of an urge is to give in, to let go, to just embrace a business as usual mentality. One thing that helps is vocalizing the urge - don't just let it brew under the surface. We all know what actions tell us we are slowly giving in. For me it could be a simple text to a fellow user that seems innocent or a "plan" we make that will bring us closer to using. It's at this point where telling a loved one, or just verbally telling yourself "I am experiencing cravings." You would be surprised how powerful acknowledgement can be. It's like exposing a liar or uncovering a scam. If you blind yourself to the urge to use and remain docile or passive, the cravings can and will eventually beat your will to quit. Even if there is just one person in your life who understands what you are going through and supports your cause, you have a powerful tool in your arsenal. So when I encounter cravings or feel I am descending into impulsiveness, I vocalize my thoughts, tell my friend, and remain honest about my actions. Addicts have the potential power to know themselves better than those who have not gone through addiction because we can really learn the skill of uncovering our inner-desires and motives. Simple statements and actions can signal a potential oncoming relapse. Alertness, acknowledgement, self-knowledge and most of communication with your support network (as little or expansive at it is) are key I think. Let's stay clean this weekend!!!

FT

Free2012,

What well thought out and excellent observations those are! I had never really recognized the pattern to my own cravings (or Addictive Voice) before, but they are painfully clear if I stop and take a look at them. Yes, you are right.

Part of recovery is learning to recognize the "addict brain" thinking when it occurs, because it is deft at disguising itself as rational thought. I was fooled into thinking I was being "rational" about my own oxycodone use, even during the time I was trying to taper off in 2010 and failing miserably because I considered it "logical" to steal from my own stash, figuring I would worry about not having enough pills left later on. Ha!

For anyone interested in this concept, you might want to check out the AVRT thread in the secular connections area of this forum. It describes the "Addictive Voice" very nicely. I always called it "addict brain thinking" before I discovered AVRT, when I realized I had not invented the wheel myself.

It is refreshing to hear others dissect out the flawed thinking we do as addicts, which only serves to maintain our addictions and "loss of control" over our lives. We've really had control all along, if you choose to see it right there in front of your eyes.

FT

IvanKatz

FT is absolutely correct about "Addict Brain". Everyone has to understand that these drugs completely rewire our brains. Our brains were reprogrammed to accept our doc as our pleasure. Opiods/opiates are like little "pleasure fairies" to our brain receptors. After taking them long enough, our brains no longer produce our own feel good chemicals. Why should the brain make them when it's being napalmed by feel good stuff all day? THen, when we stop using the drugs, our brain goes into panic mode screaming and yelling "NEED MORE"!!!!!!
Like a broken leg, it takes time to heal. Our cravings and triggers are part of that healing process. I know it's DAMNED FRUSTRATING that it takes so long to start feeling better. We are genetically programmed to do what feels good. Stopping our doc goes against that. It's a hard long road but give yourself some time, patience, and solace knowing that time will heal!

mattparadise

It goes so far away that it vanishes.

FT

I would comment that one should not be so over-confident about the cravings and urges disappearing that they do not recognize "it" for what it is when and if it shows up again.

I've been a non-drinker for over 20 years, and yet I was strongly pulled towards some wine tasters at a local marina when an Italian restaurant there was having an outdoor event last summer. Lordy, the food smelled delicious. And the WINE! Good Lord in heaven, I had not had that strong attraction to the smell of wine for a LONG time.

My husband and I were riding our bikes along the shoreline when this situation occurred, so I was not inside the place where the wine tasting was going on. FREE WINE! Now, WHO could resist that?

I had a brief moment of "longing" to have some of that wine. That was followed by the vivid recollection of waking up each morning, hung over, and regretting, AGAIN, that I was back to "day one", and so so so wishing I had just not had "my wine" the night before.

So, be careful. Even though I realize we are talking opiates here, not wine.

That's another story for me, more recent, a 2 year gig surrounding severe osteoarthritis and double total knee replacements. A lot of you here already know my story. Well, hey. I'm more than a year away from that crap now, so I can count that one among my "potential cravings" to look out for in the future. For me, opiates were even harder to kick than the wine was. Clearly, for me and for most of us, NO ACCESS is the surest way not to jump back on that hell ride.

FT

IvanKatz

FT,
This morning I was cleaning out my two bathrooms and discovered several old empty bottles of pain meds. I sat there for a second and simply began throwing them away with lots of other junk. Then I went to my old stash places and threw out everything that reminded me of using. It hit me hard for a few minutes but I was strong enough to shrug it off. But I did something a little different with all those old memories. I took it to the back yard and burned it all instead of throwing in the trash. As the old bottles burned, I raised my middle finger to it and said good bye!
As I walked back inside my house, it felt as if a huge weight was lifted from me.