Trajork

Here comes a really long post. Feel free to skim it if you don’t have much time.

Hello everyone. I guess I'll start with some information about myself. I'm 22, and I'm a masters student at a college in Illinois. I’m fascinated by science and I’m studying biology now, but I have a lot of physics, math, and some chemistry under my belt as well. I’m pretty satisfied with where my education is taking me right now, but I have some other issues.

My journey into substance abuse started when I was 17, during my freshman year at a small liberal arts college where drugs were widespread. Freshman room assignment happened to place me right in the center of the campus drug-using culture, and although I hadn’t done drugs before, I found I fit right in. I dabbled with a bunch of substances. Psychedelics really helped to expand my mind and gave me some of my most valuable experiences, along with some of my scariest; prescription opiates and benzos were fun every once in a while but I never really felt compelled to take them; I tried Adderall and other uppers but didn’t find that they helped me all that much, and so on. For all I tried, my favorites really were alcohol and marijuana. Using them, I was able to develop a social life I only dreamed of having before college, and my friends and I had many awesome experiences.

After graduating a year and a half ago, we all scattered, and I moved far away from my old hometown. I found that I wanted alcohol essentially every day, and I’ve been averaging five or six drinks a day ever since, sometimes more, and usually drinking alone. I also had the misfortune of stumbling across another drug of choice – DXM. For those who don’t know, DXM is the active ingredient in cough syrup. It’s of questionable efficacy as a cough suppressant, but when taken above the recommended dose, it’s a potent dissociative hallucinogen. I found that it stimulated some really interesting thoughts, and it’s totally unlike any drug I’ve ever tried before. It helped me appreciate music, explore science, and deal with being alone most of the time. I quit marijuana during that time, but DXM took its place, and it’s a more powerful drug overall.

Now the DXM and alcohol are turning on me. Unlike most hallucinogens, DXM is addictive. It has a certain euphoria that is hard to describe but is really nice, a sense of really being at peace with the world. That sensation continues for about two days after the main effects have worn off. I found out why when I first tried to quit – it has effects on the brain’s serotonin system that are similar to SSRI drugs. When I try to quit, I feel “brain zaps” and other symptoms of SSRI discontinuation starting around the fifth day of abstinence. Eventually those cause me to give in and take it again, and the cycle repeats. I consume it 1-3 times a week, usually at around 0.5-1 bottles of cough syrup at a time (about 180-360 mg DXM). On non-DXM days, I experience uncontrollable urges to drink, usually putting away 5-7 standard drinks over several hours and then going to sleep. On individual days when I have a large assignment for school or something, I can control myself and get my work done – my academic work is okay at the moment.

But I don’t seem to be able to quit DXM or alcohol despite trying numerous times over the last year, and it’s really worrying me. Has anybody been in my position, or anything similar? I may have a good brain, but I know I can’t figure my own way out of this situation, and it’s not for lack of trying.

The one idea I do have now is to get on some sort of SSRI drug. DXM and SSRIs have dangerous interactions, and I would never risk combining the two. The SSRI may also eliminate the DXM withdrawal by acting in a similar manner on the brain’s serotonin pathways. Furthermore, I’m definitely depressed and that could help me out that way, too. What do people think about that idea?

Dee74

Hi Trajork
Welcome to SR

By our rules, we ask people not to ask for or to give medical advice here.

I think you'd be best off consulting a Dr anyway and speaking with them - be totally honest about both your addictions, and listen to what they suggest.


D

Trajork

I just saw that forum, and I posted this there too. Perhaps the threads should be merged?

I only mean to ask for other people's experiences with SSRIs and the like, not specific recommendation that only a doctor would be qualified to give. I have scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist, as well, and I'm hoping he can give me some recommendations.

AcceptingChange

You asked about SSRIs and getting off other drugs.
I tried to stop drinking more than a few times, both at your age of 23, and pretty regularly quitting again (after some embarrassment occurred) every year after that. So, i never really quit, i just slowed down a lot for a period of time.

My drinking pattern is a bit like your DXM use. i only drank on weekends, and maybe once a month i'd drink too much.

Anyway, about 6 months ago, i started taking SSRI Paxil. I feel it's helping me. I used to get waves of depressive anxiety that was awful. Escaping that feeling (which could last days) was a real drive to pick up a mood-changer. That doesn't seem to happen as much now that i'm taking Paxil. I wish i were drug-free, but i wasn't able to just quit everything. So now i at least have a drug that allows me to not deeply, deeply crave alcohol. I need something to help as i change my habits.

I also do a lot of cardio exercise, which helps too.

Your addictions will only get worse as you get older. And they get uglier too. What comes off as cute excess in your twenties is viewed as selfish, unacceptable behavior in your 30s and after.

I know your studies are time consuming, difficult, and require a high level of performance from you. It's during those times that addictions can sneak in, because you don't care about anything except the high GPA and graduation. Many of us said "Once i'm done with this pressure-cooker university life, i'll deal with my addiction." But then you'll be in a pressure-cooker job and then a pressure-cooker relationship, or a pressure-cooker dating scene.
It's always easier to put off painful actions until the future. That's because pain exists in the present. So, you're wise if you're working on ending your addiction now. It will get worse.

Dee74

I merged

We can share our experiences with SSRIs but only a Dr can really give you a qualified assessment of your plan.

If you think you genuinely need SSRIs for a mental health issue that's one thing...but personally they certainly didn't work for me as some kind of anti-drinking measure.

I had many meds I shouldn't and was sure I 'would never' drink on...but I always did...I'd drink a little and be ok...so I'd drink some more...

pretty soon the taboo was gone.

I'd run it by your pdoc

D

Impurrfect

Welcome to SR!! I agree about talking with your dr. I took a LOT of stuff that shouldn't have been taken together, was a nurse and KNEW better, but that didn't stop me.

I wish I'd stopped when I was your age..did a lot of damage in the 20+ years of abusing one thing or another.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Lily

Trajork,

I never knew that DMX had those effects. Glad I didn't add that one to my list of drugs I abused.

I did have to come of an SSRI unders my docs advice and I experienced the brain zaps. It was very annoying, but I was able to get through the withdrawal. I had a lot of support, my hubby, my group, doc and my higher power.

Keep posting and keep on trying to live a clean life, you can do it!

Lily

Trajork

Thanks for the replies, everyone. I'll be meeting with my psychiatrist next Tuesday. He's from the "just throw drugs at them" school of psychiatry, but hopefully he has some useful suggestions this time.

Now I really am sure I won't mix DXM with an SSRI. The mix would cause serotonin syndrome, which would be at best extremely unpleasant and at worst life-threatening. I may be self-destructive in many ways, but I'm not suicidal and I don't have tendencies to self-injury, so I won't mix the two. I'm less sure about alcohol, but hopefully I can at least cut out all the drinking alone I've been doing over the past year and a half.

Only time will tell though. I think it is good that I've recognized my substance abuse problems as what they are, a problem, and one that needs to be fixed. Now it's time to stop procrastinating and write this blasted paper I'm working on.

Tentative

Might be a bad idea.... Are you impulsive? or a master of self control?

Would suck if you got drunk one night and said **** it and dosed DXM while on SSRI's. That's what I'd worry about. I've used drunkenness as an excuse to get high against all common sense before.

Easy with the DXM. I've friends who fell in lust with Ketamine and are still severely depressed friends now that their connection went away (about a year ago). DXM is very easy to obtain

Every time I ever did a dissociative, I felt like I was opening my head, like you'd open an engine to make repairs. If you do it to often, you get a bunch of dirt contamination or lose a bolt in the grass.

Trajork

I suppose it's time for a bit of an update.

I'm on Prozac now, 10 mg and will be going up to 20 mg soon. I last took DXM a week ago, 3 days before I got on Prozac. The first effect I noticed of the Prozac - the brain zaps from DXM withdrawal showed up briefly, then disappeared. I can avoid that drug as long as I feel like this.

I'm not exactly a master of self-control, but I do have some first-hand experience of (minor) serotonin syndrome. I once took 100 mg of the supplement 5-HTP a day after a DXM trip. I suddenly started to feel a bit hyperactive, and my heart started racing. I measured a resting rate of 118 bpm using a blood pressure cuff, and a slightly elevated body temperature. My muscles started twitching as well. It went away after a couple of hours, but it was scary as hell while it lasted. That's why I'm sure I won't risk a much longer and more dangerous episode.

But yeah, dissociatives are crazy. They're the only class of hallucinogen I know of that are truly addictive. I really do think my experience with DXM helped me in some ways, but after more than a year of doing it 1-3 times a week, it became pretty obvious that I was going to start losing bolts, or worse.

I'm not entirely sure what the wisdom of subbing DXM out with an SSRI is, but I hope it works. I chose Prozac because it seems to help all the other members of my large (and uniformly depressed) extended family, and because it's used off-label to help with alcoholism. Obviously I'll stay with the lowest dose possible and never take DXM while I'm on it.

I guess I figure that life is an experiment, and I'm a scientist-in-training, so all I can do is roll the dice and see what happens. Here goes something!

FT

Hi Trajork,

Your family "chemistry" might indeed make an SSRI a good match for you. The best thing you did was get professional medical help for this. Hopefully, your experience with substance abuse will stay with you in terms of keeping you from trying other substances later on. There is nothing like substance abuse to screw up your future, and you are on a fabulous path.

Take that education as far as you can, and then YOU be the one that helps everybody else understand this stuff!

Good luck!

FT

alien22

hey you guys -

i also have an extensive history of DXM abuse. Been to a whole bunch of treatment centers with this drug as my primary Drug Of Choice, and have met only a very few other serious DXM addicts. It is so readily available and for me provided a welcome sense of relief in an unrelenting world. With that said, i have about 50 days clean and sober, been attending AA/NA meetings, but often leave the meeting with frustration and angst due to some personal insecurities and trust issues.

I have done online meetings some, and recently remembered this here message board which i like and will try and sign on here more often when i get a hinkering for some support.

The main problem with DXM for me was exactly as the two of you had stated, though i get a better look at the inner workings of my mind for a brief period of time, things can get hairy and my actions during and immediately after the trip are unpredictable and often even dangerous in one way or another.

Besides, my family got very tired of hearing about ER trips, arrests for shoplifting, psych ward visits due to instability, etc etc!!

And of course i got very tired of this stuff too.

Glad the psych meds are helping, i am on a daily regimine, and without them i cannot function well at all. Due use caution with the SSRI as far as mixing with DXM, definately not a safe thing to do.

Keep talking to your pdoc, hopefully he has SOME idea of DXM and its effect on brain chemistry, or at least is sensitive to substance abuse issues. Good Luck in your sobriety!!

Trajork

alien22 - Keep up the good work! 50 days sober, given your history with DXM, is no small feat. DXM is a major drug of abuse, but it has somehow managed to fly under the radar for the >50 years it has been on the market. I have no idea why, although it probably has to do with the pharmaceutical industry's lobbying efforts combined with the relative unpopularity of DXM in general (most people who try it don't like it and never do it again, but a few people like me and you like it enough to become addicted).

I didn't even bother talking with my pdoc about DXM - he had no problem with giving me fluoxetine, and that was pretty much the end of the appointment. I could try to switch psychiatrists, but the mental health services in my area are pitiful and there's no reason to suspect I'd end up with anyone better. But I don't feel any desire to abuse DXM now and my family history seems to suggest that my particular brand of depression is readily treatable with SSRIs, so I'll go with the treatment I'm getting, for the moment.

I'm not surprised that you had AA/NA problems - nobody who hasn't experienced it
firsthand has any idea what happens when you down a bottle (or two+...) of cough syrup, and it probably strikes any hardened alcohol or opiate abuser as one of those things that teenagers do to get high that doesn't work. Don't worry about any negativity you get from them.

I'm fortunate that I never felt the need to shoplift DXM, nor did I have any mental breakdowns worthy of a hospital visit. I have driven under the influence, and I was just as willing to roll the dice - I just thankfully never ended up causing any problems.

Out of curiosity, does your daily regimen include any drug that should not be combined with DXM, and if so, has it helped you to stay away?

alien22

Trajork-
I have been on most of these meds i'm on now for several years. I have used DXM while on them, quite a bit, they are 'anti-psychotics' and they probably do increase the chance for 'seratonin syndrome' due to excess seratonin, but i have gotten high on them anyways. I've also been on SSRIs and done DXM while on those, too. Did not weigh the risks just did it anyways (impulsively).

Thanks for the congrats on the 50 days. I feel really good this time, well, at least as good as one might expect to feel i guess and i take things one day at a time.

As for the shoplifting it is an insane risk to take given how difficult jail/prison is for someone like me.

Anyhow, its a good day to be sober, my coffee is ready so ima go now. :P

Trajork

I just thought I'd bump this thread to say that my Prozac gamble has worked so far - I've been off DXM since November 20, with minimal cravings and very minor withdrawal symptoms. I suspect that the brain zaps and the like were caused by the fact that DXM acts as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor (among the many effects it has). When I replaced it with a real SSRI, mild brain zaps began briefly but subsided within a couple of days, not returning since. And although I do miss DXM trips sometimes, I don't have any desire to go back to using DXM. Not only would doing so be extremely risky while on Prozac, I also just feel content to leave it in my past. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if the serotonin release was also a major part of why I liked it so much, and now my need for that has been reduced.

So one demon appears to be exorcised, and it's coming time that I face my other one - alcohol. I've still been drinking heavily despite the fact that alcohol makes antidepressants much less effective and could carry additional risks too. I think I'll be taking that plunge in the next few days, and in the meanwhile it's time for me to start reading the Alcoholism forum and getting some ideas about what might work there.

I'll close by bragging a little - despite my substance abuse problems, I somehow managed a 4.0 my first semester in grad school. First time I've had a 4.0 semester since sometime in high school! And I'm doing cool research too. So that part of my life is going great.

Thanks for the help in November, everyone. Y'all have a good community over here, and I think I'll be taking advantage of it more in the very near future!

kirilov

im glad to see people on here. ive taken dxm pretty much every day since i was 17. i am 36 now and reallly need to give it up.

Dee74

Welcome to SR Kirilov

D